BongStuff
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Posts posted by BongStuff
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This is all fine and dandy, but where does that other sock go in the wash?
I mean......really!
He hops in, complains about a missing sock, and hops out again!
BS
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Try this...on a track that you're at the very final mixing stages with,
don't listen to it for 24 hrs or so. Then come back and bring the mix
up again - BUT - keep your monitoring volume *very* low.
Just low enough to make it a bit frustrating! Tease yourself
Now your challenge is to make the track listenable *without*
turning up your monitoring. I'm not saying just compress the
hell out of it - cos it won't sound good, and we're going for
listenable - just "louder" so that you can enjoy the track again.
Once you've squeezed frequency bands you never even knew existed,
and been through your whole arsenal of toys, dump it to CD/WAV
and listen again, this time at higher volumes. Doesn't it sparkle
a lot more? Don't a lot of the most positive instruments take centre
stage rather than the atmospheres and embellishments?
Of course now you can go back and more traditionally hone the
mix you've just left with. But I'll bet you a few beers that you'll
have a less cluttered, more powerful sounding track.
BS
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Paul Simon!!, I love that album it has some great songs with awesome bass lines and great singing by ladysmith black mambazo...
10/10 Harri...
around the same time as Peter Gabriel's "So", Kate Bush' "Hounds Of Love" and
The The's "Infected" as I remember.
Quite a year for good muso-friendly albums...!
BS ( sorry for hijack Donna )
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ps. K141's actually a bit cheaper than I thought now...about 70 euros
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/fl.../product_id/922
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Which speakers should I mix for? Right now I'm still on headphones only. The mix sounds different: on cheap boom box, on car stereo speakers (best system in my realm), on computer speakers.
Yeah you certainly want to be testing your mix on as many sources as you can, but
for producing in your studio you want something as neutral and "revealing" as possible. Reference monitors
and a decent power amp.
If you *must* use a hifi amp dont f**k with the tone controls. Take the loudness off
and keep it flat flat flat. But bear in mind a hifi amp will have been tuned to
assert its own character on the sound...as will any set of hifi speakers.
Headphones I know are an unfortunate necessity for those of us who make
music in the residential home...but dont rely on them for mixing.
I made this mistake many years ago, taking my lovingly honed track to a
record label and the first thing the guy said was
"did you mix this on headphones?"
I now use a pair of AKG K141's which are about as good as you'll get for mixing work. Cost
around 100 euros. As recommended by Didier!!! ( merci mon ami )
BS
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Hmmm. Three possible nicknames for Prometheus (it does get long to type out the whole thing): Mr. P, m'lud and Pro.
I'm usually very quick at shortening names, but not here.
Maybe I'll just call him Al once in a while?
A man walks down the street
He says why am I soft in the middle now
Why am I soft in the middle
The rest of my life is so hard
I need a photo-opportunity
I want a shot at redemption
Don't want to end up a cartoon
In a cartoon graveyard
Bonedigger Bonedigger
Dogs in the moonlight
Far away my well-lit door
Mr. Beerbelly Beerbelly
Get these mutts away from me
You know I don't find this stuff amusing anymore
If you'll be my bodyguard
I can be your long lost pal
I can call you Betty
And Betty when you call me
You can call me Al...
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Fab article Mr. P
Nothing to add m'lud...
BS
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Manual
Found this on audioasylum
I record to the 4 tracks, then create a stereo mix to CD. Then, I bring that stereo CD mix back into the Tascam (Program In) onto 2 tracks (still in stereo) of BLANK tape. So I have my stereo mix on 2 tracks, with 2 blank tracks open. I can then record more music onto those 2 tracks and then mix (still in stereo) down to CD again. This accomplishes 3 things that relate to what really are limitations of 4-track cassette recording: (1) it eliminates the necessity of only being to record to 3 tracks and then having to "bounce" those 3 tracks onto the 4th empty track (the drawback being it sends your music into Mono, and also, because of the compression that takes place resulting from trying to fit all that music onto a tiny cassette, starts to degrade the sound); (2) your music can stay in stereo; and (3) since you keep using blank tape for each mix, each stage of the recording process is preserved (which is useful when you have to "back-up" and do something over - using the traditional "bouncing" method, once it's bounced, you're stuck with it - or you have to start from scratch) - sure you use more tape, but the music is worth it, right?
Hope that helps, I'm sure there is a way to bounce internally, but don't know the way
Hmmm!! Neat idea!
BS
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That's a very good analogy Rude! I think you've hit the nail on the head there! But I do think the times they are a changing! There are fewer people actually buying music! This is often blamed on file sharing and illegal downloads. I think it's more a question of taste! Do the public actually want to pay for something that may get a few plays and then forgotten? I found this interesting little article
http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2004/0...ilesharing.html
I still believe that file sharing is more a case of try before you buy! I for one am very carefull about what I buy! Mainly because of financial restraints! I don't want to fork out 15 quid for a load of pap!
Nice link.
But weren't UK music sales up in 2004 despite all the hysteria
over illegal downloads?
We were all taping albums 10-20 years ago too!! It's not a new phenomenon in that sense.
Steve - if you want a good combo -
first try AllMusic
then buy Play - most CDs 9quid delivered
BS
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music is perceived differently now.
kids are not interested in the artist as much (unless its a new heart throb thing)
newspapers keep giving away cds with pop hits on them. who is encouraged to buy?
disposable music is getting diposed much quicker now
Yeah that's true.
I wonder if in general our collective span of attention is diminishing?!
BS
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Most of the time the public dont have a choice. For years I have bought cds from the abroad (mostly US) because those artists are unknown & unrepresented in the UK.
If all you have on offer is crap, an informed choice (and taste) is of little use.
The mythologised rationale behind pop innovation is that youth culture drives & determines ' a newness'. It was that way in the late 50's & through the 60's. It seemed to work at the time too, but I dont think its been that way since.
Something my lady friend said made me realise that pop music is like high st. fashion.
She told me what next years dress fashions were to be. 'How do you know?' I asked. It turns out that is what is appearing on the shelves & discussed in magazines. In other words, this is not a prophesy or projection, but what the manufacturers have decided its going to be. So 'innovation' (or lack of it) is the domain of the vendors themselves.
Fashion is dictated. Its not driven by any sort of culture, except what some corporate draughtsman may or may not perceive.
Public choice is a case in point. These pop idol type show-things give the public a chance to vote for what exactly?
Definitely.
But I still think we have more choice in music than in "fashion" - diverse music is in all
the big High Street music shops. Sure if you wanna get *really* obscure - and I count
myself in on this one - you'll need to find a e.g. specialist or mail order source.
But your average HMV / Virgin / Tower will stock a decently huge range in terms of era and style - much more than
your average GAP / Next / FCUK.
As for Pop Idol....!!! Nothing boils my blood more than that karaoke stupidity! AAAARGH!!!!!
( I need a beer )
BS
ps. oh here's one!
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Bet you weren't expecting that though, extra appreciation credits go to anyone who can tell me what that's from ...Without doing a web search...on your hono(u)r
wow talk about thread hijack
no sorry no idea - let me guess - some old rocker?
BS
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Seems like I have the same problems as Donna with WinAmp.
My default player is Windows Media Player - but WinAnp persists in running from the Songstuff links I choose.
Correction: it persists in appearing but refuses to actually operate as far as playing tracks goes.
I have a high-speed cable connection and purge regularly with Ad-Aware and Search&Destroy, so none of that would appear to be the cause of the problem in my case. Besides, For internet radio streams WinAmp works perfectly ok.
My only effective solution if there is something I really wish to listen to from one of the people here, is to download the file onto my computer, and then listen using Windows Media Player.
Like Steve, I dislike WinAmp because of the unnecessary problems.
Hey Lazz!
Yeah, not a big fan if Winamp either, other than for streaming. But then again I
dislike RealPlayer and MediaPlayer just as much. Its half the reason I still prefer to
buy CDs and listen through a good CD player and amp, rather than download - legally
or otherwise!
However, I've just downloaded about half a dozen tracks from Songstuff's MUSIC pages
( using right-click and "Save Target As" ) - all play fine in Winamp 5.1 "Full" version. Note
I use the "classic" skin which eats less CPU.
Donna - you might wanna try WinAmp 5.1 "Lite" version with the classic skin, if you're
getting PC performance troubles...
BS
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When you hit the print screen button, it places a copy of the screen on your clipboard. If you then open any graphics program (Like MS Paint) and press [Ctrl V] this will paste the picture of the captured Screen in your chosen App. You will need to Save as a jpg or Giff then attach it to an Email to send. If you want to post the screenshot in this thread you will need to upload the picture somewhere then link to it from your post.
You could try to disable Winamp! Or you could try to find Windows Media Player and make that your default player. It should be in C:\Program Files\Windows Media Player Personaly, I hate winamp!
You also might wanna try running these two programs first.
AdAware which will cleanse your PC of most nasties
and
Spybot which will get rid of some other nasty stuff.
Both are free and well tried and tested. Might help improve your winamp performance. In any case
it's good to run cleansers like these once every so often anyway.
BS
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im old enough to remember when artists were `discovered'
but they cut out the legwork now they are designed
Yeah but only with big labels.
Look at indies Warp, Ninja Tune, Mute etc...still taking on small artists
and discovering and nurturing talent...
BS
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yup, I got kicked out of a band cause I didn't want to adhere to the dress code the band thought the industry was looking for (Dickies)
Was that what the Chilli Peppers used to wear on their, erm, dicks...?
But yeah, surely the music industry is already getting fragmented. As
affordable digital kit and online distribution improves, the old major label
business models won't provide the profit they used to.
BS
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Spot on.
Yeah can't disagree with that.
But it goes further - it's only guaranteed short term profit that the music industry
seeks now.
It's rarely that case that, from a financial viewpoint, a monied label will "invest" in
an artist with a view to developing them, nurturing them, and over time
turn in the megabux album sales and profits. Low risk is the name of the game.
So gone are the days of "small" bands appearing on EMI or Sony.
But there's hope!
If you look at the success of Franz Ferdinand - it took an "indie" label,
Domino, to back one of ( if not ) the biggest album sellers of 2004.
BS
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Just picking on a previous comment...
I wonder if the fact that most modern pop music is so bland and predictable
is really the fault of the musicians / producers involved or the labels
themselves?
I think it's rare that quirky or developmental artists are given any major label backing
nowadays.
So many innovative artists that would have been a good bet for a record
deal even 15 years ago are now confined to self-promotion and poverty.
And alcohol abuse :
BS
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A funny read was all I linked it up for too - wow - I'm glad we behave ourselves better here at Songstuff.
Have to agree - can we update the link to something better? JP22 says
"Compress a clean sound? Uhh.... sorry to break it to you but for the most part you're almost completely defeating the purpose of using compression doing that."
Right. So we can only compress "DIRTY" sounds. Clean sounds defeat the purpose of compression?!
I didn't read any further.
Sorry to break to you JP22 but...
BS
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And both are pop music and very probably have been digitally edited and aboslutely certainly have been digitally mastered... To edit and mix music like Royskopp without digital facilites would be an absurd waste and gross misuse of resources and would only be done to prove a point...
Well the background hiss on both albums begs me to differ!
Just look at the soundscapes that Curly Michael Cretu and Peter Gabrielle have accomplished with digital equipment... The limitation is in the engineer, not the digital tools...Dude I totally agree. All I am saying again and again is that digital is not pushing the
engineer anymore. MC and PG aside...maybe...!
BS
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Prometheus,
Yes, I believe you that digital will make things easier. The discussion is helpful and interesting.
John,
Well that's is, ain't it? Overcoming embarassment to ask q's.
(Hmm, what were mine? That sound of the Strawberry Field's splice is all I can hear now)
Yeah sorry 'bout that - it's pretty obvious once you know about it.
But as a famous producer said "the kids will never know".
BS
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It's like watching slow paced tennis. But more fun.
Lets face it, both have their benefits. There are lots of geniuses, but one mans genius is another mans George Bush. It's subjective. Like comparing Mozart to Beethoven.
John I never thought I'd hear Georges Martin and Bush in the same breath
I think there are icons of our trade that nobody can really disagree with. George Martin
is one. Shirley. ( and don't call me...etc...)
Britney. Trash? News to me...Pop can be innovative, but it's far more likely to be formulaic. Pop tends to gradually change until an innovative subculture bridges the gap to mainstream, where upon pop gobbles up the ideas, processes it through the current pop filters and spews out a hybrid. The same is true for pop producers, or pop songs. Sure some break the rules, but not a lot.
Agreed. Pop rarely innovates!
There are many who are innovative within the pop genre. The thing is, are they innovative enough?Well IMHO take a listen to recent Goldfrapp or Royksopp albums. Both kick Britney style
digital-production-by-numbers straight in the 'nads....
BS
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George Martin was the best studio engineer alive at the time, since I wasn't born back then, and they had the best equipment available at the time and unlimited resources in terms of manpower and musicianship, including orchestras, bizarre instruments from all around the planet, loads of exotic drugs and one of the pioneering stereo setups...
And yes, I've noticed how Strawberry field is a splice of two pitch shifted recordings, and I know that was an unprecedented blend of audacity and genius at the time on Martin's part, however today any engineer worth his salt could create that effect in his sleep. As a matter of fact, I was made to use time stretches and pitch shifts during my training as a sound engineer...
In fact, today, there is absolutely nothing on Sgt Peppers that could not be emulated easily in a $1000 project studio. We have everything they had and stuff they never dreamed of... If you want a revox sound, you can emulate it digitally, or go on ebay and buy a revox... Having more and superior technology at your disposal can only make things better, if it is used properly, not worse...
Britney Speir's recordings, for all that her songs are IMO for the most part banal trash, are vastly superior in production terms to anything ever dreamt of in the sixties. The amount of skill, effort, technology and engineering prowess that has went into them is frightening... If you can't hear that, your ears must be painted on...
Of course, if you'd rather have a studio with 500 yards of cabling running around it, reel to reel tapes that require constant maintenance and depolarize every time there is a solar flare and master onto vinyl disks with a puny dynamic range that smash the reading needles to bits at the slightest phasing problem under 1000 Hz then be my guest. I'll happily stick with 24 tracks -> Converters -> Virtual Tape -> CDR any time...
Yeah some interesting counters there. Please don't think I'm on a "digital sucks" rant though.
I've just finished writing, recording and mastering a piece for a commercial radio station this evening
and didn't use any cabling of any kind, let alone 500 yards - apart from the headphone lead!
( and yes I do use cans because I have real ears
)Britney top40 trash does indeed all sound pretty good - but all the same. It's been a long time
since I've heard something of that ilk that really stands out with innovative production.
So yes, accepted digital does make things easier. But has the digital era produced another George Martin
genius?
BS
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Would that be the same Revolver that was recorded in the multi million pound Abbey Road Studio with the squeaky cleanest pre amps with the lowest signal to noise ratio that an limitless budget can buy?
All a digital set up does is make the signal processing and editing easier... If you like analogue compression and EQ, there's no reason why you can't patch analogue units in...
Wow such sarcasm! :
Yes, EMI, who owned Abbey Rd., funded the recording of Sgt. Pepper especially with no financial limits.
But you could never describe the sound of that album as squeaky clean!
Its varispeed and tapeloop heaven. I would not sound as
good done on ProTools. Ever notice how Strawberry Fields drifts in pitch throughout?
With digital it would have been perfect. And worse for it!
It's not just about patching in your anna-log kit.
BS
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