Writing Music

[john]

Hey

Inspired by Lazz's topic on lyricists collaborating with musicians I thought I'd dip my toe in the pool of writing music for lyricists.

So how do you work with a separate lyricist? How do you accommodate the lyrics, if at all?

One thing I notice is with lyricists who have:

a) not yet worked with musicians

or

lyricists with no real structure to their lyrics

is that they don't overly take account of repetitive structures or give much attention to lyrical rhythm. The importance of that really depends on the genre being written for.

Much depends on the lyricist, but I find it can be a point of friction between musicians and lyricist. I have to say personally that is one thing that puts me off working with a separate, inexperienced lyricist, or at least a lyricist that I haven't already seen a willingness to accommodate adjustments. That doesn't mean I wont or don't, just that I am cautious.

All that said, working with a separate lyricist can be quite an exciting thing. The spark of a different imagination can be amazing. Ideally a lyricist who will spark and encourage me, as I hope I will do with them, but that sort of symbiotic complementary relationship is more rare than I'd like.

So, what is your take/experience?

Cheers

John

[Lazz]

There was a thread about collaborative strategy a little while back, initiated by the valued absent Carnival (MIA, 2008, NW Pacific). Maybe we should revive it alongside these current ones.

writing music for lyricists.

The turn of phrase, coupled your reasons for caution, suggests you’re talking about the challenge of being expected to compose music for pre-written words here.

But, let’s just say for argument you have found someone with whom you communicate well and who works with a musical awareness of structure, …. how would you approach composition if you aimed to feed them music to write to ?

What are your working preferences ?

[john]

Hey Lazz

Good idea on the thread revival.

Yes, I was talking of writing music for pre-written lyrics, though I have had similar experiences writing music first and passing it to the lyricist, getting the words back and they just don't work.

It really depends on the exact relationship, and the lyricist's preferred way of working. I don't work with lyricists often enough these days to have a preference. If anything I like to go through iterations of a song. Sometimes that means lyrical tweaks, other times melodic... which one tends to win the day is fairly specific to genre and the change intended.

The song is the lyrics and melody together so until they really work together, are complimentary to each other the song isn't really settled. Sometimes lyrics are inspired by the existing work to go in a new direction. Fair enough, it happens. The idea is to make the song as good as it can be for whatever purpose it has been written, whatever market.

I have worked with lyricists that aren't overly precious of their lyrics and others who are, and flinch at changing a single word. I can understand the attachment to the work you create.

I dare say lyricists find some musicians can be precious regarding their work.

The important things are to keep up dialogue and try and remain working positively on a song without being overly attached to anything till it is done.

Not ideal maybe, but it has been some time since I collaborated. I write music very easily and always have a surplus of songs. My problem is in getting them recorded to send to anyone!

Cheers

John

[Venus]

The best thing about doing collabs via the internet is that it acts as a cushion. The downside is that it takes for F'n ever! I usually tell em ahead of time that rewrite is inevitable. When lines are questionable, I just ask them to send several varying lines so I can pick and choose which line sings better. Of course I'll rewrite it too for vocal purposes. Yes, some lyricists think they've written the bible, but I've worked with more musicians who actually think they're God. I hate having to remind people that it's just music . . . but then again, I can get wrapped up in my own self-absorption sometimes too depending on the status of the moon.

[john]

[Lazz]

I usually tell em ahead of time that rewrite is inevitable. When lines are questionable, I just ask them to send several varying lines so I can pick and choose which line sings better. Of course I'll rewrite it too for vocal purposes.

Does that mean you are composer, Dena ?

Do you write the music for others' words ?

Yes, some lyricists think they've written the bible, but I've worked with more musicians who actually think they're God.

Luckily - I have been able to avoid working with either of those personality traits.

I have worked with two singers who wanted to change things, though.

In one case, I made the mistake of allowing her a copy of the first demo that happened during the development process. When the song was finished, however, and I heard her perform it for the first time, I was stunned to discover her sticking to the earlier incomplete version. It was a limitation of how she learned things - once learned, she couldn't change. She became quite prima-donna-ish about the whole affair and her belief that she had a right to do what she wanted with our song. It felt like an abuse. It was abuse. Nowhere do I waive my moral rights. The relationship fractured beyond repair and I learned never to allow anyone to hear work in development, only when it's finished.

In the second case, the singer requested an alternative for a specific phrase and gave me reasonable and convincing reasons. No problem. I thought about it. And I re-wrote the line for her. Something that said the same thing but with words that would play better in her market. Sorta transatlantic translation. Solved the problem. She is a pro. We dig what she does highly, and that respect is reciprocated. She would never presume to make changes herself without consideration for the writers - unlike the previous abuser of rights. She was happy I delivered, and records it in a couple of weeks. We love her and have even written a new song specially for her and no-one else.