john

Hey I was giving some feedback to Mahesh on his current production (in the member only Mix Critique board) and it reminded me about discussing the topic of how members approach production and to ask if they are missing a trick here. To my mind, the easiest form of production is creatively fairly lazy. In essence it is when the production process is almost entirely focused on balancing the instruments and basic support of the melody via harmony and rhythm, so that each member of a band (or typical band set up)plays in their typical style. Creatively there are no real ideas there. I think of this as minimalist genre or as a literal interpretation. Going beyond the minimalist genre approach is to view production as transformative as the songwriting process. Where production can interpret the song, add creative ideas that add or develop a concept for the song, or a concept for the band/brand or album. Such production is more challenging for the band. It tends to be less about showcasing of instruments because it focuses almost entirely on the needs of each song, or at least each song within the confines of the current band and their approach to music. This second approach really splits into 2. Where the production is a slave to the brand aesthetic. The concept is band/brand driven. It’s really an evolution of the minimalist genre based production, but at least a concept is being applied. Where the production is primarily a slave to a song concept. This production can be relatively literal to completely off the wall. The real difference is that the needs of this recording of the song drive the production with the artist aesthetic or album aesthetic coming a close second. If you look at a band like the Foo Fighters, most of their music is more about the first approach. Led Zeppelin were more about the minimalist/literal approach too, though both evolved towards a brand aesthetic approach where showcasing instrumentation was still an important feature. Both bands have elements that stepped into the brand anesthetic approach, but overall, whatever arrangement, it was more about bringing the instruments together, in a balanced way, and leaving room for solos. Very traditional hard rock. In truth, they probably use experimentation and concept, but they do so within a heavily restrained way. Compare that with Pink Floyd, or Radio Head. Both bands were initially much more minimalist approach, but both evolved a consistent approach where the 2nd method of production became the driving force. In modern times producers like Mark Ronson do apply a song concept, but it is still a slave to an overall style, commercialism and the band aesthetic. When Ronson’s and Salaam Remi’s tracks were added to Amy Winehouse’s album Back To Black, the songs were very genre driven, capturing a very specific brand aesthetic. Meanwhile a producer like Finneas O’Connell produces music where the production is far more of a slave to the song followed by the band aesthetic. The only instrumentalist really being showcased is the singer, usually Billie Eillish. The result is much more lush productions, more creativity on show, more depth of emotion, more breadth of emotion too. Much more variety. Much stronger conceptually. How do you view your approach to production? If you don’t give it much thought, take a minute and have a think about it. In your journey as a music producer, do you have a direction of travel, an intended destination? Cheers John

Hi and welcome Hessel. It says access denied. Loads of people are wary of links to files in drive folders. You will get more clicks if you upload to soundcloud or YouTube as unlisted.

Hi and a big welcome to the Songstuff community!

Similar happened with the UK a number of years ago with PRS.

Hey Gang Just like music itself, there are distinct and different types of music production. Who are the music producers that inspire you? If you don’t have one, perhaps look to the music producers whose music you listen to. This could be based on the artist and you just haven’t thought about who the music producers were. Chances are you do have favorites that you weren’t even aware of. Cheers John

Hey Ron Welcome to Songstuff! What sort of folk are you into writing? You mentioned the “P” word. What’s the aim of your project? Cheers John

Like you I’m not a big fan. I have quite a few Waves plug ins, but they are usually a little disappointing (in my experience). Also I am not fond of their licensing. That said they have a few not bad simulated reproductions. So far, less convinced by their more adventurous, experimental plugins.

Hi I think the answer is complex and will change through time. Things come and go with fashion and people are fickle. By that I mean what works now and why can flip on its head, very easily. Indeed, often generationally, what works now often contains one or more defining characteristics the spawn an anti movement for the next generation. If those characteristics contain: human made, ai made and human+ai made a typical initial paradigm might be: human made -> ai made -> human + ai made as the dominant music forms We can see this with the advent of electric instruments: acoustic instruments -> electric instruments -> acoustic + electric instruments Of course with the development of technology balance points shift. I think it is safe to say that in the modern era electric based instrumentation dominates, despite several resurgences in acoustic music. Now acoustic music exists along with electric, but other than vocals it remains the minor partner. Another ongoing trend is the speed of change and how long fashion changes remain in vogue. Fair to say that in the 1950s trends lasted longer. In the short term, at some point soon, will listeners need real artists in order to hear good quality musical entertainment? Sadly the evidence is that we are possibly already at the point where need wise the answer is “no”. Here comes the fickle part. Consuming music is about more than the music. Listeners seek connection. To the artist, to each other. They seek belonging to a tribe. Cue labels cultivating complete virtual artist avatars in combination with ai (you heard it here), even gaming characters. Here comes fickle part two. While listeners might bathe in ai for a while, the pendulum never stops swinging. Some listeners will never abandon real artists. Once crossed over some will stick with ai. Most people will be in between. However, ai music will be cheaper, so certain avenues will be shut down TV and film, for example, will start incorporating more and more ai music…. Just as soon as court rulings start finding in favour of ai. Just now they are not. There will still be workable models for musicians.

Ah… age, the gift that keeps on taking! I’m glad you got a quick solution. Cheaper than laser surgery!

Hey David There’s no built in way to do just that, but I will put together a custom skin you can choose or update the default, depending on the extent of what is needed. Can you give me a screen cap and circle any bits you struggle with? I’ll get on it. Cheers John

I’ll look at doing something to make it more obvious.

I’ll look at this. Sorry for the long delay…. I don’t know how I missed this.

That’s because the staff process it along with some automated rules. Whenever the traffic level increases the spam increases.

Eek!

Scarily good Alice. It makes me curious about the possible results when working with a composer and producer. It also makes me wonder how difficult it would be after having AI versions created, because comparisons would be inevitable…. And the AI created content couldn’t be used if copyright is to stand and proper music releases were to be made… plus obviously there is no value in bringing on board a composer just to sideline them. An interesting quandary… for another topic lol