What Are Your Opinions On Studying Music?

[Guest Mason]

Hello

I am aware that there have been threads creating concerning the promotion of gigs etc but this post is slightly different.

I have no experience playing live, other than in front of friends and busking in the street. and so im thinking of taking a music course somewhere within the next year or two and wondered what your opinions are? I am currently having musical practical and theory lessons to begin entering for the grade exams, though my logic is that a) I will meet like minded people Ill have space and an area where I can develop my musical skills c) Ill have tutors who will help me along the way d) Ill be able to get practice performing live e) Ill have people to show my songs too and f) will hopefully make some useful contacts along the way. Now is this a fair assessment? also, does anybody have any suggestions on where to study, perhaps you have been in a similar situation as myself. I am in living in England and wondered whether it is worth studying in say London, Brighton, Leeds or Manchester or should I try the 'go-it alone approach'?

Thank you.

[Lazz]

... is this a fair assessment? also, does anybody have any suggestions on where to study, perhaps you have been in a similar situation as myself. I am in living in England and wondered whether it is worth studying in say London, Brighton, Leeds or Manchester or should I try the 'go-it alone approach'?

That is a fair assessment, I'd say.

Working gigging musicians build careers from networks - more so than in any other area I know.

And it will get you where you want to go so much swifter than would the 'go-it-alone' approach.

For pro jobbing muso skills - I mean for someone aiming to work outside the traditional legit areas of classical orchestras and the like but more in the popular music side of things - then Leeds is the most established with great tutors and a deserved reputation that attracts a lot of talented applicants. There used to be a Mabel Fletcher College in Liverpool, too, which was more than decent, but I have an idea it may have been swallowed into Paul McCartney's 'Fame' Academy. There are some great experienced teachers up there. Manchester is also excellent. London has the Guildhall school - waaayyy better than the others for non-legit-orchestral stuff - or Middlesex out in the suburbs of Oakwood. Brighton ? I guess you may mean Sussex ? (is it ?) I know a couple of guys from there, both trumpet, both great, but nothing else about teachers or institutional values.

My personal top 3 would be Leeds, Guildhall, and Middlesex.

Maybe even in the reverse order.

Good luck on your applications.

[Guest Mason]

Sorry, I should of been more specific. I was referring to popular music studies rather than anything classical or orchestrally based. I do have interest in those realms of music, but I myself prefer writing songs. The school in Brighton which I was referring to was the Brighton Institute or Modern Music, they also have a branch in Bristol.

[Lazz]

Yeah - I was presuming your area wasn't classical/orchestral.

My only experience of these places is first from occasional visits to sell stuff or set up workshops, and second from hanging and working with guys who went through those colleges.

Admittedly, those joints I favour focus on jazz.

In my experience, whatever the genre, players who have learned from that tradition tend to have a wider range of appropriate stylistic vocabulary than any classically trained or go-it-alone geezers. Hands down. No contest. The possession of a broader harmonic palette that comes from those courses is in my book a great asset for a songwriter. I wish I'd had the opportunity myself.

Anyway - that's the basis of my preferences - Leeds, Manchester, Guildhall and Middlesex are the places where you learn the skills to work as a jobbing pro in popular music.

The intensity of orchestral academies, and the training processes most have gone through to get there, generally erode improvisational 'ear' skills and the ability to simply 'make' music away from a written score. Not much use in getting gigs - unless you want to work in a classical ensemble (shrinking opportunities) or teach.

BIMM is a new one to me

(well, it's new, innit ?)

But they do look to have some interesting visiting tutors.

And a new course on songwriting - which the places on my list don't have.

Could be worthwhile - but then again could be more business model than educational institution.

I have a few reasonably successful career musician friends living in Brighton, though, who are likely to have informed opinion. If you wish, I can ask them what they think. They may even be amenable to communicating with you directly about it.

Let me know.

[roxhythe]

I have no formal training in music myself (hardly seemed any point, with the tonedeafness and all). I have picked up some music theory, et al., on my own, and could see where an actual education could be useful. On the other hand, I've also seen formal training inculcate people with some very bad habits (like being dependent on sheet music).

I guess my recommendation would echo Chet Atkins', when he was asked how much formal music education one should have: "Enough to know what you're doing, and not so much that it gets in the way of your doing it."

Joe

[Roymega]

I learned how to play the guitar about 4 years ago, when I was 18 years old.

I started "writing" lyrics when I was 14... which was 8 years ago.

I am just NOW putting both of those together and finding my own melody at the age of 22.

So what I'm saying is... the only thing stopping anyone from making music is themself.

OH and I forgot to mention, I have no formal education of music. Everything I've learned has been on my own time, in my own setting.

Edited June 9, 2009 by Ryan

[Lazz]

BIMM is a new one to me

(well, it's new, innit ?)

But they do look to have some interesting visiting tutors.

Mason - don't know if you're still around at all - but it turns out I do know some of the guys at BIMM and they have great things to say about courses, content, and staffing. Chris Difford is one of the visiting tutors next session and an old mate of mine is also now teaching on the songwriting bit. All very positive.

OH and I forgot to mention, I have no formal education of music. Everything I've learned has been on my own time, in my own setting.

I am about the same, Ryan - no formal education and everything on my own time.

Doesn't mean I would dare recommend the same path to others, though.

I would have achieved a lot more, better and sooner, if I had gone to school for it.

No question.

[roxhythe]

Though I've had no formal training myself, I do recommend it. (I always figured it was pointless for me. Why should a tone-deaf person study music?) One caveat, though. I can usually spot a musician who's had formal training--because they're dependent on sheet music. And (my opinion) it looks really bad when you're performing if you need props. Like the old commercial says, don't let that happen to you.

Underscores, I guess, Chet Atkins' advice on how much music theory someone ought to know. "Enough to know what you're doing," he said, "and not so much that it gets in the way of your doing it."

joe

[Lazz]

One caveat, though. I can usually spot a musician who's had formal training--because they're dependent on sheet music. ....

Underscores, I guess, Chet Atkins' advice on how much music theory someone ought to know. "Enough to know what you're doing," he said, "and not so much that it gets in the way of your doing it."

Joe - you're repeating yourself.

Must mean we're getting old.

But hey -that paper dependency thing is an affliction suffered by the classically-trained cohort.

There is a different, more functionally useful, style of music education out there these days, you know.

Places where they equip you with skills to do jobs other than orchestral.

[Nick]

I was in London at the weekend at Guitar - X a college in London for guitar players. It's one of the places that my son is looking at as he intends to become a professional musician. Note - not to win Pop Idol or necessarily become a star (though he wouldn't mind) and not just to play in a band but to become a professional musician. It's why he practices technical stuff 4+ hours a day and has his next years practice and playing regime already planned out so that when he gets to college he'll be way past the Grade 8 standard that he is at the moment. His piano teacher which he does as a bit of a sideline is encouraging him to do Grade 8 piano next year but he is not sure whether it will get in the way of his guitar playing.

Does it get in the way of his playing or creativity? Nope. He enjoys playing and writing and developing his craft.

John Wheatcroft (who is a fine jazz guitarist) gave an introductory talk and talked exactly about this. Can studying music spoil your playing? Can it get in the way of creativity? Definitely no. He's currently giving lessons to Radiohead's guitarist. Why? Because as he plays and has met other players the limits of his knowledge show and so he has gone back to learn and develop further.

John Renbourn who was a hero of mine when I was young did the same and went back to studying guitar later in life. Steve Vai is a favourite and he is technically accomplished, well versed in theory and writes very interestingly on aspects of playing, theory and performance. His start was transcribing Zappa as I'm sure you know and transcription is an interesting and demanding technical exercise.

But however taught you are you have to also feel it. The Groove book that Lazz once referred to I recently passed on to a particularly 'stiff' properly trained paper based player. I'm not sure he understood it though.

[Guest KatrinaRainbow]

Hi

I've got some friends who are studying at BIMM Brighton - they are loving it! Great place to study and the facilities are superb.

I've just done Access To Music Level 3 at my local college.

I'm a mature student - there wasn't anything like this when I was the age most of my college friends are. I say it's well worth a look into (check the websites, go to an open day etc) and decide from there

Take care,

Katrina

[Prometheus]

I did a MU-TECH course a few years ago, Musical Theory and Audio Technology with a qualification equivalent to what you'd call a College Degree in the states I think. They had a system where the Diploma contains passes and merit passes, which is a good way of proving your calibre.

The pros:

You can get a lot out of it, if you're willing to put work in. If you go in with a view of scraping by with bare passes you can do so and learn nothing, but if you go in with a view to learning all you can and pushing yourself to your limits you're in the right place with the right people to really learn a lot in a short space of time.

The cons:

You're not going to do a college course, get your degree or diploma and then jump straight into George Martin's chair at Abbey Road. If you want to make money out of music, you have to figure out how to make it by yourself...