Looking For Some Lyric Writing Advice

[Sunfighter]

Hi,

I've never been particularly imaginative linguistically. I always had a certain amount of trouble at school with creative writing. But I have a fairly decent command of English and I'm reasonably good at expressing myself on paper.

As a result all the songs I've written have been about something fairly concrete, usually relationship songs, which I can relate to myself. In these songs I'm expressing myself,imagining conversations etc, more than thinking abstractly.

This is the problem. I seem to be totally incapable of thinking abstractly, which is something I'm desparate to incorporate into my lyrics. My writing is so limited, because I can't seem to write anything except relationship songs, and I'm running out of ideas! I have a friend who can write about almost any topic you care to mention. I could never do that.

Can anyone offer any advice on techniques that might help me think in a different way? I've considered trying to write some primitive poetry, but it would be like pulling teeth - I've never wrtitten a word of poetry in my life!

The lyric writing is becoming a huge issue for me. My productivity has dropped to almost nothing because writing lyrics takes me so long.

I've posted a few lyrics here, not for crtique, but simply as an idea of what my last song was like. In the end I was reasonably happy with them, but I sweated blood over them and they took FOREVER. If anyone can offer some advice, so I can make even a small improvement to my songwriting I'd be very grateful.

Thanks.

"Sing me your mantra, I’ll tell you my favourite joke

I smell your perfume, you breathe my cigarette smoke

Love’s a misunderstanding, between two simple fools

You’re oil on canvas, shadows and light

You’re oil on canvas, shadows and light

A million times I’ve looked looked into those eyes,

Too many times I’ve tried catching the secret behind, whatever’s inside

Your Mona Lisa eyes

You smile poilitely yet I sense a distance between us

I kiss you lightly, it dies on your lips with sigh….

We’re static and drifting, both together alone

You’re oil on canvas, shadows and light

You’re oil on canvas, shadows and light

Too many times I’ve looked looked into those eyes,

A million times I’ve tried catching the secret behind, whatever’s inside,

Your Mona Lisa eyes"

[john]

Hey

There are a number of things you can try:

Don't edit while you write. Write, then edit.

Try some exercises writing in similes, metaphors and allegories

Create ideas sheets

Create phrase sheets

Have you tried the cut up technique mentioned on this board? That would help.

Would you say your problem is with idea creation or filtering? My guess is how you filter the ideas. I say that because your messages scream perfectionism. I'm naturally like that myself. Lyrics can and do take years to get right sometimes, well they did.... as ever it is about learning our weaknesses and playing to our strengths.

One of the big problems with editing while we write is that it ruins any writing flow.... writing flow is where your creativity lives, editing is where we tidy up, re-arrange etc. If you still then do not have a finished lyric, do another pass of writing and editing.

Don't try to be too clever. keep it simple.

Try deliberately learn new and different styles, different genres.

An idea I found very helpful: All your lyrics are experiments. Every single one. They are not for "public" consumption unless they become "finished". Although these boards have a section for finished works the crit boards are not... so feel free to use them while writing. The simple notion that MOST work you do will not end up set in stone, MOST will not be finished, MOST will not make it off your desk or PC... it's liberating. it's also a mental trick. Even if you know you will be sharing stuff, the fact that you can let yourself have room to have purely personal lyrics will set you free in many regards.

There are more ways too. I think critiquing the work of others is really helpful. You learn almost as much in doing that as you do in writing, and probably more than you do having your own work critiqued.

A few ideas to digest. Hopefully of some help.

Cheers

John

[McnaughtonPark]

Another technique, along with what John suggested, is free-writing. 10 minutes a day, early in the morning, before starting your day.

Pick a subject, like "Gasoline". Now write anything at all that pertains to that for ten minutes, using all the senses. This is important. Use memories, if you've never felt or tasted gasoline, imagine how it would feel or taste. You have to use the senses, you have to write everything that comes to mind without editing, don't erase, if you make a mistake just keep going. Don't worry if it doesn't make sense, you'll later find that some new and interesting ideas come from mistakes. Don't think, write. Write often, everyday if you can,

MP

[Sunfighter]

Thanks to both of you for some good advice. I'm going try to write a passage every night before bedtime, when my brain is hopefully a bit more relaxed.

I'm also going to keep a pad with me at all times in case I come across an interesting phrase or word.

But in a nutshell, I need to write more, even if it's rubbish!

Thanks.

[McnaughtonPark]

try writing in the morning if you can, your brain is more active. But you're right, if you only have time at night, write then.

All night spent dreaming.dreaming of anything at all. Sometimes running when I can run or swimming about to drown, brething water. Salty, thick inmy lungs, thin as paper, luminescent in front of the camera..Focus, twisting out the backgrounds fuzzy trees with the birds song fading in reverberation. I guess the worms are sfe, the birds are blinded by night fog so dense I can feel it, brab it, take a whole hanfull of fog wnad wrap it in newspaper like a smelly old fish, or maybe just it's guts. pale red intestines and the bright green lure of a fisherman with a tale of the one that got away. got away, gone to dream in a silver brook rippling water, water I can't breathe but feel. ICy cold in the early spring, the frost on dewy leaves, the warm scent of birch wood burning on an open fire.

Then sit back and find something in there that relates to you. Then begind writing some interesting words around that. Find rhymes for those words, develope a story where does it begin and end and what is the poihnt.

I didn't use spell check to show you that it's ok not to be perfect all the time. Just go with it and the flow will become a few minutes of your day, uncorrected and exclusively you. Your imagination just needs a path wherever that taakes you is fine.

[lyricman321]

First, I think just like men and women have different brain wiring that tends to make the majority of men men think logically while women are more inuitive/emotionally driven, some writers don't do well with abstract writing. Maybe there's a bit of trying to force a round peg into a square hole.

Second, writing "relationship songs" is a good thing. 98% or thereabouts of all hit songs deal with relationships. The trick is to find a bew twist on that, not abandon it.

I think you have an "idea creation" problem and that can be solved by keeping a small notebook in your pocket and look for things people say/do, things you read that make are sort of "mini-epiphanies": "Wow I never thought of it that way!" moments. They are songs waiting to be written.

Second, I think you need a system for developing the ideas as well as a collaborator to bounce your work off as it progresses and also to help provide additional fresh ideas.

Maybe take a look at:

How to Craft a Song, Nashville Style

http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Bill_E_Watson

Scroll down & you'll see it.

Nashville is not jusy country, btw.

Timbo

[Sunfighter]

Thanks for your ideas. I haven't got a problem with relationship songs, but it seems to be all i can write, at the moment.

. Maybe there's a bit of trying to force a round peg into a square hole.

Lol, it's funny you should say that. The chorus of the very first song I ever wrote was "I'm just a square peg in a round hole".

[MikeRobinson]

The lyric writing is becoming a huge issue for me. My productivity has dropped to almost nothing because writing lyrics takes me so long.

I've posted a few lyrics here, not for crtique, but simply as an idea of what my last song was like. In the end I was reasonably happy with them, but I sweated blood over them and they took FOREVER. If anyone can offer some advice, so I can make even a small improvement to my songwriting I'd be very grateful.

Writing good stuff can take a long time, because so much of writing is re-writing. (In all disciplines.)

"Sing me your mantra, I’ll tell you my favourite joke

I smell your perfume, you breathe my cigarette smoke

Love’s a misunderstanding, between two simple fools

This is strong. It shows the differences between the two people using purely sensory terms. The first two lines are absolutely wonderful. Plus, the third line also shows they're still in it together. This is about the relationship, and about relationships, not a stormy ending. Good. I'll bet that line #3 can be tightened yet; a word-swap or maybe two. Maybe not: there's a time to call it "done," and maybe this verse is there.

You’re oil on canvas, shadows and light

You’re oil on canvas, shadows and light

Thinking about a painting as "shadows and light" is also strong. I wonder if the second line could be replaced with another simile, without becoming trite. I'm not sure. I'm not sure at all.

A million times I’ve looked looked into those eyes,

Too many times I’ve tried catching the secret behind, whatever’s inside

Your Mona Lisa eyes

"Mona Lisa eyes" is a good simile, yet coming here for the first time it is unanticipated. Could it be faintly suggested at, in an earlier line? Maybe, maybe not.

You smile poiltely yet I sense a distance between us

I kiss you lightly, it dies on your lips with sigh….

We’re static and drifting, both together alone

Another good scene, yet I sense it could be made stronger. "Both together alone" is an interesting mental image; the four words before it are weaker.

Too many times I’ve looked looked into those eyes,

A million times I’ve tried catching the secret behind, whatever’s inside,

Your Mona Lisa eyes"

"Too many times" okay, but rhyme with something other than "a million times." And I wonder if instead of these the "painting" metaphor could be brought up again. I'm not sure.

If this is "what took you so long," fine! It's a strong lyric.

I've been known to tackle a piece of writing with a yellow and an orange highlighter: yellow for stronger, orange for something I wish I could find some stronger way to say (or that I ponder if is carrying its weight as-writ). And I stare for some time at it, but thinking about it every day somehow so that my "other mind" knows I'm waiting impatiently.

What kind of music do you envision your lyric being set to? Or have you done that already?

Edited February 11, 2010 by MikeRobinson