The Music Business Has Changed... Have You?

[john]

hey

With all the music business changes of late... how have you changed your approach? Artists now compete with millions and millions of other artists... it's a relatively flat playing field, but it's hard to get noticed with so many others jumping up and down shouting "listen to me".

Cheers

John

[Prometheus]

hey

With all the music business changes of late... how have you changed your approach? Artists now compete with millions and millions of other artists... it's a relatively flat playing field, but it's hard to get noticed with so many others jumping up and down shouting "listen to me".

Cheers

John

It's very hard. You're literally a needle in a haystack... Personally, I never have figured out how to get noticed...

[Roflcopter]

It's very hard. You're literally a needle in a haystack... Personally, I never have figured out how to get noticed...

This guy has some interesting opinions on it, and isn't doing very poorly either, it seems (rest of the interview is quite interesting - and probably part of the reason as well):

on record deals

[thepopeofpop]

It's very hard. You're literally a needle in a haystack... Personally, I never have figured out how to get noticed...

Perform live. Anybody can make a record now but not everyone can put on a good show.

[Roflcopter]

Be young, be sexy. Be provocative. Have a very good network of friends and rich family and ditto school buddies. Be a talented actor.

Oh.

Well, they also need studio musicians....

[Roflcopter]

Nice update: interview with Tommy Silverman

This morning I did a Skype call with a music conference in Sweden, and Sweden was the only country where music was up last year, even physical discs — and it’s the home of Spotify and of The Pirate Bay. Either the IFPI counted wrong, which is very possible, or there’s something serious going on that should be investigated, because it’s the only place in the world where physical sales were up last year.

[Prometheus]

Perform live. Anybody can make a record now but not everyone can put on a good show.

I'd love to do that, but I'm under the doctors knife with anxiety at the moment, so I'll need to see if they can fix me first...

[Roflcopter]

Another interesting article on the current state of affairs

[Lazz]

Another interesting article on the current state of affairs

Yup.

That Bronfmann book looks very interesting indeed.

One of the most interesting and provocative things in the interview for me, however, is where the author, Fred Goodman, bemoans how few bands can afford to to make records which "investigate what you can do in a studio", and that "sophisticated" records will likely disappear because of cost:

the fact is, you can’t justify the cost anymore for any band who really wants to look inside its soul and go live with a producer for eight months.

U2 can do it, The Red Hot Chili Peppers and maybe five other bands. I mean, who can do this?

That strikes me as weird and funny.

I mean, who would need to lock themselves up with a producer for eight months ?

Dare I suggest it might be because they actually don't have any first idea what they should be doing ?

(Maybe that's what Goodman truly means with the line "investigate what you can do in a studio" - it's because they already ran out of idea before they started).

I dunno.

I read these things and sometimes feel I come from a different planet.

Grinch grinch grumble grumble.

But maybe the demise of that odd reality could mean that the world of recording will have more functional room again for players who can do the business and be in and out inside 48 hours.

.

.

[Prometheus]

But maybe the demise of that odd reality could mean that the world of recording will have more functional room again for players who can do the business and be in and out inside 48 hours.

Then you have no Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band. Writing musical scores would become the sole provenance of those who could afford to hire an orchestra. Recording any complex experimental multitracked music would become impractical.

[Lazz]

Then you have no Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band. Writing musical scores would become the sole provenance of those who could afford to hire an orchestra. Recording any complex experimental multitracked music would become impractical.

I can’t quite grasp your point(s), Graham.

Goodman does indeed appear to be saying that complicated experimental recording has become less likely because so few projects can justify that kind of big budget anymore – his estimation (as quoted) is that there are maybe seven current bands who can. But that sad budget situation is clearly the result of the savage sales dip and nothing to do with my small attempt to look on the bright side and envision the possibility of more chances for players who don’t need eight months to make a record.

I’ve been involved with complex multi-track recording (that some folk have called ‘experimental’), and I presume that you have, too – yet did either of us take anything near eight months to do it ? I think not. My guess is that both of us work/worked within much more realistic and practical constraints. My understanding also is that plenty of complex experimental multi-tracking takes place in people’s bedrooms these days instead of hiring outside studios.

I’ve also worked with orchestras and, as you say, can’t afford that nonsense anymore due to the self-evident reasons in Goodman’s analysis. Yet, again, recording took nothing like eight months – five days tops from down-beat to mastering.

I also write musical scores (I call it ‘arranging’) while not being able to afford an orchestra, and focus on 4 to 8 instruments – because of limits to my musical conception (I’m still learning) as well as fiscal restraints. Yet with modern technology and software, anyone with a broader true orchestral vision than mine can now write full scores and hear them played back on a computer without the bother of hiring real players. So, while historically it was true that scoring for an orchestra was generally limited to those who could get regular access to one, that doesn’t seem to be the case in our modern age at all.

And we do have Sergeant Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band, don’t we? From about 45 years ago. When they didn’t have all the techno-wizardry available to us today. And that took much less than eight months also.

That eight month scenario as a legitimate and reasonable expectation is a foreign country to me. As I presume it is also for you.

The changes in the music business all trickle down from changes in cash-flow, it seems to me. And I also presume that this has kicked you in the bollocks as hard as it has hit me and everyone else I know. The only faint glimmer of positivity which struck me upon reading the interview was that these monetary restrictions may mean there is a chance we could end up with better music made by better musicians who don’t need eight months to figure out what they were doing in the studio.

What’s the problem with that ?

On a different note – this being under the doctor’s knife.............., was that a metaphor, or do you have some health issues we should be worrying about ?

.

[Prometheus]

I can’t quite grasp your point(s), Graham.

Goodman does indeed appear to be saying that complicated experimental recording has become less likely because so few projects can justify that kind of big budget anymore – his estimation (as quoted) is that there are maybe seven current bands who can. But that sad budget situation is clearly the result of the savage sales dip and nothing to do with my small attempt to look on the bright side and envision the possibility of more chances for players who don’t need eight months to make a record.

I’ve been involved with complex multi-track recording (that some folk have called ‘experimental’), and I presume that you have, too – yet did either of us take anything near eight months to do it ? I think not. My guess is that both of us work/worked within much more realistic and practical constraints. My understanding also is that plenty of complex experimental multi-tracking takes place in people’s bedrooms these days instead of hiring outside studios.

I’ve also worked with orchestras and, as you say, can’t afford that nonsense anymore due to the self-evident reasons in Goodman’s analysis. Yet, again, recording took nothing like eight months – five days tops from down-beat to mastering.

I also write musical scores (I call it ‘arranging’) while not being able to afford an orchestra, and focus on 4 to 8 instruments – because of limits to my musical conception (I’m still learning) as well as fiscal restraints. Yet with modern technology and software, anyone with a broader true orchestral vision than mine can now write full scores and hear them played back on a computer without the bother of hiring real players. So, while historically it was true that scoring for an orchestra was generally limited to those who could get regular access to one, that doesn’t seem to be the case in our modern age at all.

And we do have Sergeant Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band, don’t we? From about 45 years ago. When they didn’t have all the techno-wizardry available to us today. And that took much less than eight months also.

That eight month scenario as a legitimate and reasonable expectation is a foreign country to me. As I presume it is also for you.

The changes in the music business all trickle down from changes in cash-flow, it seems to me. And I also presume that this has kicked you in the bollocks as hard as it has hit me and everyone else I know. The only faint glimmer of positivity which struck me upon reading the interview was that these monetary restrictions may mean there is a chance we could end up with better music made by better musicians who don’t need eight months to figure out what they were doing in the studio.

What’s the problem with that ?

Put it this way Lazz, I am now driving a forklift truck in the aerospace industry, so definitely, I've been hit hard to the point of giving up on music as my main source of income.

I think we may be thinking of a different concept of eight months here. If you mean eight months of solid non stop work, then I agree that would be a little OTT. As it happens, it took me two years to produce my first solo CD, but that was due to fitting the sessions around other work and around other people's schedules. I've produced recordings for other people that have taken more than eight months to be completed. I have nothing against eight months of work going into an album if the end result is worth it.

And yeah, Sgt Peppers took 129 days to record, just over four months. It's still a substantial amount of studio time.

On a different note – this being under the doctor’s knife.............., was that a metaphor, or do you have some health issues we should be worrying about ?

I have some issues with anxiety that are causing me some problems. I'm being referred to a therapist, so hopefully I'll be able to work through it.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Prometheus

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Forbes list of the big earners in the music industry. All new faces !!! - err, wait....

[Prometheus]

Forbes list of the big earners in the music industry. All new faces !!! - err, wait....

The thought occurs that if these utterly obscene sums of money were spread around a bit rather than concentrated in the hands of a small clique, the industry might not be in quite such a sad state.

[Roflcopter]

The thought occurs that if these utterly obscene sums of money were spread around a bit rather than concentrated in the hands of a small clique, the industry might not be in quite such a sad state.

Hey that's not fair, they are great, great innovators, like Lady Gaga. Oh wait... she isn't.

Well at least she gave Dale Bozzio due credit and a bag of money, Oh wait - she didn't.

Remember, these are the people that tell us PIRACY IS EVIL...

[Prometheus]

Hey that's not fair, they are great, great innovators, like Lady Gaga. Oh wait... she isn't.

Well at least she gave Dale Bozzio due credit and a bag of money, Oh wait - she didn't.

Remember, these are the people that tell us PIRACY IS EVIL...

It is pretty annoying when they set up a conference to thrash out the boader view of what should be done about piracy with Lilly Allen representing the person in the street.

[Lazz]

I think we may be thinking of a different concept of eight months here. If you mean eight months of solid non stop work, then I agree that would be a little OTT.

I was thinking only about what Goodman was talking about in his interview - being locked up with a big-deal producer for eight months - which he says very few bands are able to accommodate these days.

I have nothing against eight months of work going into an album if the end result is worth it.

Can't complain about that, either - but I'm stuffed if I can think of an example.

I have some issues with anxiety that are causing me some problems. I'm being referred to a therapist, so hopefully I'll be able to work through it.

Bad news.

I know you're not alone here - not that it helps in coping with the practical experience of suffering - but you ain't alone.

Hope the therapist is good and you can manage a way to channel issues productively.

Good luck.

.

[Roflcopter]

Yeah, the music business should take a cue from the computer business, where hard work, innovation and efficiency are the ru... wait.

[thepopeofpop]

Then you have no Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band. Writing musical scores would become the sole provenance of those who could afford to hire an orchestra. Recording any complex experimental multitracked music would become impractical.

You can do all that at home. You don't even need a real orchestra. You just need to be able to write scores (or find someone who can).

The Beatles recorded their first album in 10 hours. Sgt Peppers took 129 days, but that was like reinventing the wheel, and then after that they started getting a bit quicker again. The most monumental track on Sgt Peppers, "A Day in the Life", only took a day to record and mix!

If these bands need to take such a huge amount of time then they should just buy their own studio - it would be cheaper. They could rent it out when they weren't using it to recover the cost.

Edited July 28, 2010 by thepopeofpop

[Prometheus]

You can do all that at home. You don't even need a real orchestra. You just need to be able to write scores (or find someone who can).

I've created an artificial hundred piece string orchestra before by multitracking, using one violinist and cello player. It took a long time, around forty days of studio sessions, which kind of defeated the purpose of bringing it up on this thread. Writing an orchestra in the form of a score is all well and good, but you still have to perform, record and mix what you've written, or somebody certainly has to, and that takes musicians, studio time and money.

I was fortunate because I have my own studio facilities. Without that, it would have cost an exorbitant amount of money to do it the way I did.

The Beatles recorded their first album in 10 hours. Sgt Peppers took 129 days, but that was like reinventing the wheel, and then after that they started getting a bit quicker again. The most monumental track on Sgt Peppers, "A Day in the Life", only took a day to record and mix!

There is a marked difference in quality between the 10 hour album, which was really just a rough demo by todays standards, and the 129 day Sgt Peppers Album.

If these bands need to take such a huge amount of time then they should just buy their own studio - it would be cheaper. They could rent it out when they weren't using it to recover the cost.

No arguments from me there. I would advise any band with plenty of money to have their own studio. I would advise any band at all to have a project studio.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Prometheus