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How To Wrte Pop Music... Like Lady Gaga


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  • Noob

I'm 25 and have been really inspired by Lady Gaga who is able to write catchy pop music that capture everyone's attention. Ever since hearing her first dance hit I've wanted to be able to do something like this myself. The problem is I have no idea where to start, and how to get good at it. I used to play piano as a kid, but it was classical piano, and the focus was just performing a piece correctly. I had no idea how and why the music worked. I guess that's where theory comes into play?

I don't even know how people become composers and songwriters. I'm taking piano lessons right now, focusing on classical performance, which I am not sure is taking me in the direction I want to go: to have great technique but also be able to write catchy tunes.

So my question is how do I freaking start!? Learn chord progressions? I look at the crazy things Gaga can play on the piano and I don't think what she plays are simple chord progressions.

Does learning to play classical pieces directly contradict my efforts at learning to craft melodies, you think?

Are there any books you guys can recommend at least for a beginner like me to learn how to actually WRITE melodies?

Thanks so much for any advice.

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My advice:

1) Get yourself a decent prog like Magix Music Maker or Garageband and a (midi) keyboard.

2) Learn about the quint circle. All you really need to know is which chords sound good together.

3) Write some simple lyrics with a steady rhythm and flow and a great hook (yup, this is the hard part).

4) Use chosen proggie to put together loops of four chords that fit together.

5) Play around with the chords on your keyboard and use what you've learned from your classical lessons to make melodic hooks.

6) Sing your heart out.

7) Record. Distribute. Make gazillions. ;)

I'm 25 and have been really inspired by Lady Gaga who is able to write catchy pop music that capture everyone's attention. Ever since hearing her first dance hit I've wanted to be able to do something like this myself. The problem is I have no idea where to start, and how to get good at it. I used to play piano as a kid, but it was classical piano, and the focus was just performing a piece correctly. I had no idea how and why the music worked. I guess that's where theory comes into play?

I don't even know how people become composers and songwriters. I'm taking piano lessons right now, focusing on classical performance, which I am not sure is taking me in the direction I want to go: to have great technique but also be able to write catchy tunes.

So my question is how do I freaking start!? Learn chord progressions? I look at the crazy things Gaga can play on the piano and I don't think what she plays are simple chord progressions.

Does learning to play classical pieces directly contradict my efforts at learning to craft melodies, you think?

Are there any books you guys can recommend at least for a beginner like me to learn how to actually WRITE melodies?

Thanks so much for any advice.

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  • Noob

My advice:

1) Get yourself a decent prog like Magix Music Maker or Garageband and a (midi) keyboard.

2) Learn about the quint circle. All you really need to know is which chords sound good together.

3) Write some simple lyrics with a steady rhythm and flow and a great hook (yup, this is the hard part).

4) Use chosen proggie to put together loops of four chords that fit together.

5) Play around with the chords on your keyboard and use what you've learned from your classical lessons to make melodic hooks.

6) Sing your heart out.

7) Record. Distribute. Make gazillions. ;)

Thank you so much for your informative reply! The quint circle: I typed it in, in google and I still don't quite understand what it is. Do you mean the "circle of fifths"?

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That has to be it... it's extremely fundamental...

That's right. :thumb23: Whatever you choose to call it it's very helpful if you don't have a trained ear (or even if you do). After you've written ten-fifteen-twenty songs you probably won't need this, but in the beginning it's very helpful. I still use it sometimes, even after having written 130 melodies and co-written several more.

How to use it: The chords next to each other fit together nicely. The outer circle is the major chords, the inner is the minors. Just choose, say, four chords from the circle of fifths / quint circle, f.i. three major chords and one minor. String them together, and you've got a place to start.

Good luck!

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Since you like Lady Gaga then I suggest that you try to learn some of her songs. I imagine that at least the basic chords of her songs can be found on the internet. It's often interesting to break songs down into the basic chord sequences - sure, she may be doing a lot with those chords, but you can generally reduce things to their basic building blocks. You should be able to see, by example, the sort of things that can "work" in a song and by doing variations on her ideas you might start to build up new ideas of your own.

Of course, you don't have to limit yourself to Lady Gaga, but it's a good idea to learn the basics by analyzing songs that you like. Lady Gaga is classically trained, but of course it's not the classical training that makes her a good pop songwriter!

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Hi Kayla

Do not lay down a chord sequence to sing your lyrics over before you have written a melody.

This will only result in boring cookie cutter dross.

The sequence is.

Song idea

Song hook

Lyrics

Rhythm and cadence

Melody

Harmony

instrumental solos, lick and hooks.

Because I play an instrument I now write melody directly into a sequencer.

That is I don't use an instrument to write the melody. Because if you do a sameness creeps in.

When you are adding the harmony which, note is the second last step in the process you could use the circle of 5ths

and harmonize the melody simply in major or minor depending on the lyrical feel. However there will come a time when

you need to understand harmonic emphasis. That is waking your listener up just prior to delivering the hook or the pay off or

something you don't want missed. You do this by stepping outside your sequence and borrowing a chord from another key and then resolving

back to the sequence and the home base chord. Now there are only certain chords that can be borrowed and there are other chords which need to follow to get back to your key.

And you have to do this quickly or you'll loose your listener.

I have attached a chord map in the key of C.

The blue chord are of the key. The green chords are borrowed from other keys.

You begin ( usually) at the home base the square blue box C

Jump anywhere on the map and follow the arrows back to C

So I can have a sequence of say

C, C6, Cm6, G/d, D, D7, G, G sus 4, C

If you were using the circle of 5ths this same melody would be harmonized

C, G, Am, Dm, G ,C this may sound fine but then again it may sound boring so the point is you have to know

your options.

Now as to approaching this.

Chant the lyrics with no instrument tap the rhythm with a pencil.

Keep doing this until the rhythm of the thing is set in stone.

Create a single note tune to that rhythm record this into a sequencer.

Note melodies are repetitive.

Normally the verse will have only two ideas and the chorus one.

The rest of the melody is repetition with variation.

There are rules as to musical punctuation which you need to apply to your melody.

So you need to look up and read about cadences etc.

When you have written a single note melody that you like.

Hit the notation button on your sequencer, count the number of sharps or flats in the key signature, refer to a key reference

now you know what key it's in. Get the map for this key and begin to harmonize by trial and error following the map.

Try everything save different versions. Be aware that different chord sequences give different vocal harmony opportunities in different places.

So that may affect your choices. Like we want harmony opportunities in the chorus.

Gaga example

Poker Face

Is in Abm and has four chords Abm ,E,B,F#

The melody has been written by chanting and tapping as described above.

It relies on a rhythmic hook, the verse melody is very linear this serves to emphasize the choruses when it comes which is more melodic and very catchy.

These are all standard pop music techniques and are not exclusive to Gaga.

What makes this work is she has showcased the chorus melody by making the verse melodies almost non existent.

It is a very polished musical work with average lyrics, she's had an idea but has not maintained her focus getting distracted and drifting into soft porn.

Cheers

Gary

The Big Map.pdf

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  • 3 months later...

Seconding what crazypoet and snabbu said, but I'll add a little something.

Music lessons are worth their weight in gold. All my skills harmonizing, I learned from choir, and some chord progressions I use got borrowed from other songs.

To me, the black magic of pop is all about emotional subject matter, good rhythm (a la Lady Gaga), and a catchy hook. Being catchy though, that's the hard bit.

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So my question is how do I freaking start!? Learn chord progressions? I look at the crazy things Gaga can play on the piano and I don't think what she plays are simple chord progressions.

Does learning to play classical pieces directly contradict my efforts at learning to craft melodies, you think?

Learning to play classical pieces absolutely will not work against you. Good piano technique and the ability to read music quickly and accurately will be a great advantage as a keyboard player no matter what style and ambition you eventually adopt.

The way you start is to practice doing two things your piano teacher probably isn’t teaching you: playing by ear and improvisation.

Think of a melody that you know very well — something you could sing by memory — but have never played on the piano. Try to pick it out. As you keep doing that with different melodies, you find that after awhile, once you find the first note or two, you just “know” which keys to play.

I’m not sure if they still exist, but 40 years ago when I was learning this, you could find books of current popular music for voice, guitar and “easy piano.” The piano arrangements are usually horrid, but the guitar chords come in really handy — by reading them as you’re playing and listening to what you play, you can begin to understand how chords in popular music work.

Whether to study music theory right away really depends on what kind of learner you are. A lot of seminal popular music was written by folks who couldn’t read music at all, let alone tell you what a dominant seventh is! If you’re an intuitive learner, I’d start by trying to play by ear and reading guitar chord diagrams while playing the piano parts... Eventually you should be able to play a song you know from just the words and chords, and then you should start to be able to hear the chords without reading them first.

If you’re an A-B-C kind of learner who likes to understand everything before you try much of anything, then start with some theory. Your piano teacher might be willing and able to help. Then, when you feel like you understand major and minor scales, major, minor and seventh chords, and the relationships between scales, chords and keys, start playing by ear.

Another exercise that might help you get a handle on how keys work is transposition on sight; e.g., you have sheet music in the key of A, but it’s desired to perform it in C. Try to play that without re-writing it.

As you’re getting a handle on playing by ear, you can begin to improvise. This is the skill that will turn into composition. (It might seem backwards, but you’ll improvise halfway decently before you’ll be ready to write. It’s like that you would be able to write a grocery list, or a personal letter, or an entry in your diary, with ease before you’d think about writing a short story.)

Again, rest assured that there is nothing you will learn in classical piano training — aside from the contempt that some classical teachers have for popular music — that will be anything but helpful to you. If your teacher is willing and able to instruct you in theory and/or improvisation, that would also be great; and it doesn’t matter if it’s “classical” theory and improvisation. If you become skilled at those, and you love popular music, the transition won’t give you any trouble... you won’t be able to stop yourself!

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  • 2 months later...

Hi Kayla,

As someone who also started off playing classical/sheet music piano, I can tell you that learning how chords work will SERIOUSLY help you understand how song writing works. Learning classical piano is probably not going to help you write pop music, (believe me, I've tested this :P) learning how to play chords and how they work, and some very basic music theory will make a world of difference.

It's true that Gaga does some fancy things on piano, but the OVERALL songs she writes are actually extremely simple. She probably doesn't use more than 5-6 chords per song. (In fact, the vast majority of pop songs use less than 6 chords)

Bad Romance uses 5 chords - C, F, G, Am, Em ...and that's it. (Not in that order though)

You can see the chords for that here http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/l/lady_gaga/bad_romance_crd.htm

Those chords aren't entirely correct either, that version makes the verse much harder than it is...it's really just Am, F and G

You absolutely NEED to learn how chords work if you want to start writing your own songs and melodies...and it's not that hard to do. There are 6 chords that are super important. In the key of 'C' they are - C, Dm, Em, F, G and Am. The rest don't really matter in pop music.

If you're playing in another key the chords still work exactly the same way, you just have to transpose them to that key (so if you're playing in D, which is a whole step up from C, you have to transpose all the chords up a whole step, which means 2 piano keys - D, Em, F#m, G, A, Bm)

If that doesn't make sense yet, don't worry. The best advice I can give you is to start learning how to play basic chords, then start learning cover songs. If you want to write like Gaga, start playing all her songs and learn what chords she uses in each one. You'll start to see patterns and notice the same chords over and over.

Once you understand how chords work, writing melodies will be much, much easier :)

Hope that helped! Let me know if I can explain anything better!

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Hi Kayla

Do not lay down a chord sequence to sing your lyrics over before you have written a melody.

This will only result in boring cookie cutter dross.

The sequence is.

Song idea

Song hook

Lyrics

Rhythm and cadence

Melody

Harmony

instrumental solos, lick and hooks.

Because I play an instrument I now write melody directly into a sequencer.

That is I don't use an instrument to write the melody. Because if you do a sameness creeps in.

When you are adding the harmony which, note is the second last step in the process you could use the circle of 5ths

and harmonize the melody simply in major or minor depending on the lyrical feel. However there will come a time when

you need to understand harmonic emphasis. That is waking your listener up just prior to delivering the hook or the pay off or

something you don't want missed. You do this by stepping outside your sequence and borrowing a chord from another key and then resolving

back to the sequence and the home base chord. Now there are only certain chords that can be borrowed and there are other chords which need to follow to get back to your key.

And you have to do this quickly or you'll loose your listener.

I have attached a chord map in the key of C.

The blue chord are of the key. The green chords are borrowed from other keys.

You begin ( usually) at the home base the square blue box C

Jump anywhere on the map and follow the arrows back to C

So I can have a sequence of say

C, C6, Cm6, G/d, D, D7, G, G sus 4, C

If you were using the circle of 5ths this same melody would be harmonized

C, G, Am, Dm, G ,C this may sound fine but then again it may sound boring so the point is you have to know

your options.

Now as to approaching this.

Chant the lyrics with no instrument tap the rhythm with a pencil.

Keep doing this until the rhythm of the thing is set in stone.

Create a single note tune to that rhythm record this into a sequencer.

Note melodies are repetitive.

Normally the verse will have only two ideas and the chorus one.

The rest of the melody is repetition with variation.

There are rules as to musical punctuation which you need to apply to your melody.

So you need to look up and read about cadences etc.

When you have written a single note melody that you like.

Hit the notation button on your sequencer, count the number of sharps or flats in the key signature, refer to a key reference

now you know what key it's in. Get the map for this key and begin to harmonize by trial and error following the map.

Try everything save different versions. Be aware that different chord sequences give different vocal harmony opportunities in different places.

So that may affect your choices. Like we want harmony opportunities in the chorus.

Gaga example

Poker Face

Is in Abm and has four chords Abm ,E,B,F#

The melody has been written by chanting and tapping as described above.

It relies on a rhythmic hook, the verse melody is very linear this serves to emphasize the choruses when it comes which is more melodic and very catchy.

These are all standard pop music techniques and are not exclusive to Gaga.

What makes this work is she has showcased the chorus melody by making the verse melodies almost non existent.

It is a very polished musical work with average lyrics, she's had an idea but has not maintained her focus getting distracted and drifting into soft porn.

Cheers

Gary

This is one of the most insightful posts I have ever read! Thanks for that! If you type into the YouTube search How to write Hooks - you get some very dodgy tutorials - telling you to sing lots of random stuff and then keep the ones you like - this might work now and agin I suppose - Melodies that are catchy generally have as you say a memorable rhythm and a consistent note pattern - check out Mr Saxobeat for the ultimate catchy tune!

One thing I would also suggest is to learn about form - studying how song titles are placed and the different kinds of emphasis. For example:

Beatles - We Can Work It Out

This begins with the chorus - the form could be analysed like this: M standing for melody:

line 1 -Ma (6)

2 -Mb (13)

line 3 -Ma (6)

line 4 -Mb (13)

line 5 Mc (Title) (5)

line 6 Mc' (Title) (5..6) The last word is slurred -

I don't see any harm in writing a few melodies using structures you like - when you are learning - eventually they will become so much a part of you that you will understand how good songs work.

Bear in mind also that at a primitive level all lines in a pop song will have lines made up of syllable patterns - like this: (Norwegian Wood -Beatles)

/ -/ / -/ / - /

/ / - / /

/ / - / /

I generally pair one syllable words - but if you don't have a lyric, making these structures can help give you something to work with - you will often find that there is one note which dominates a line - not always - but often! Using the one note method though - every time!

Anyhow these patterns will either be one, two or three syllables - 4 would be 2x2 -

You and me could write a bad romance - would be

/ / /- / / / - / / /..

The dots just mean the last syllable was slurred -

There is one decent book on melody by Jack Perricone -

Good luck with your tunes!

Edited by Dolce
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  • 2 weeks later...

I write songs strictly for my own pleasure, and I've written a lot of other things too ... articles, an as-yet unpublished book, and (my bread and butter) computer software. Yeah, a strange mix, I know, but it's all "creative writing," and, it all takes time. Unless you are very experienced, you're not going to sit down at any keyboard and ... "presto!" ... like Venus popping out of the clamshell on the beach (fully formed and totally starkers :blink: ...) ... "there it is."

Doesn't work that way. But what does work is ... "rough drafts, lots of 'em." Keep 'em all. Keep everything. Disk space is cheap. Drop it into various folders (call one of 'em "The Trashcan" if you like) but never actually discard it.

First step: churn out material. Lots of it. Capture it. Don't necessarily try to go back and fix it. Later on, you can sort through what you've got and probably you'll begin to see a pattern emerging. Copy some of those sequences together (thus starting a new document, a new draft...) and see what might feel like it's working. You are likely to be surprised. Or you might feel like you're wandering. (You're new at this, remember?) In the same document, and with a short bit of space left between, try out different sequences and ideas, taking care to keep each one as you go. (So what if the document is getting longer and longer. The Delete key is not your friend.)

When you've finally got what feels like "a good set of ideas," then you can start looking more closely at things like the Circle of Fifths. (Music actually is very much based on mathematics, as J. S. Bach and many other people over the years have realized. It's actually no accident why things sound the way they do.) But even so, still pursue the strategy of "always start a fresh new draft, and never throw anything away." (Thomas Edison once said: "Nonsense! I know of a thousand different ways not to build a light bulb!")

(I suggest that when you are stringing ideas together, looking for something that works, leave a blank measure or a short bit of silence between each one so that they don't quite feel like they're "supposed" to be "finished" yet.)

Always bear in mind that when you look at someone else's "finished" song, what you are looking at is finished, and nowhere to be seen is the actual process ("writing is rewriting") that lead up to it. The same can be said of any and probably every other form of creative writing or artistic endeavor. If you want to remain happy and interested in doing it, first be realistic about setting your expectations. Perhaps it's not so much that it is harder than it looks, but simply that the process is different than it looks.

Edited by MikeRobinson
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  • 8 months later...

Sorry for this old subject about pop song, but here's a very good article about pop song writing, with the distinction between the top line writer and the producer of the track :http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/03/26/120326fa_fact_seabrook?currentPage=1

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  • 4 weeks later...

Sorry for this old subject about pop song, but here's a very good article about pop song writing, with the distinction between the top line writer and the producer of the track :http://www.newyorker...k?currentPage=1

I, for one, am very glad to say that I have never listened to "music" like this :eek: ... and I never will.

"Both Beethoven and PTA meetings now come in spray cans."

While I have no problem with someone finding a way to produce a steady supply of "salable product," and a market into which to sell it, the world of music fortunately is endless. You can turn out "squeeze cheeze" by the double-bucketful and find a way to sell every bucket ... but I'm not going to be one to eat it, nor am I going to jump up and down and say about what you've done, "eureka!" Nope. Bzzt. Not gonna happen.

Edited by MikeRobinson
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I, for one, am very glad to say that I have never listened to "music" like this :eek: ... and I never will.

"Both Beethoven and PTA meetings now come in spray cans."

While I have no problem with someone finding a way to produce a steady supply of "salable product," and a market into which to sell it, the world of music fortunately is endless. You can turn out "squeeze cheeze" by the double-bucketful and find a way to sell every bucket ... but I'm not going to be one to eat it, nor am I going to jump up and down and say about what you've done, "eureka!" Nope. Bzzt. Not gonna happen.

Luckily there so much music that isn't made to sell. That's so great abou the time we are in now. There is so much 'art-music' available for us that we don't have to listen to 'product-music' if we don't want to. Thumps up if you agree! lol

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A quick word about chord progressions and theory. The more you listen to and read actual songs, the more holes you will see in music theory. There is more to theory then a basic understanding of how keys and chords work. There are modulations and subsitutions I play jazz and in jazz there are a lot of variations to basic theory. Things that don't make sense and sound wrong while sounding right.

The same is true for many forms of music. Theory is an idea of what could sound well. It's not something carved in stone. You are allowed to color outside the lines. The most important part is that does what you are doing work for you? Songwriters also do the same thing. They color outside the lines. Learning more theory isn't always the answer. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing a lot of knowledge is too. When you are writing trust your inner ear. Your inner ear is your sense of musical taste. We all have it and it's different for everyone.

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A quick word about chord progressions and theory. The more you listen to and read actual songs, the more holes you will see in music theory. There is more to theory then a basic understanding of how keys and chords work. There are modulations and subsitutions I play jazz and in jazz there are a lot of variations to basic theory. Things that don't make sense and sound wrong while sounding right.

The same is true for many forms of music. Theory is an idea of what could sound well. It's not something carved in stone. You are allowed to color outside the lines. The most important part is that does what you are doing work for you? Songwriters also do the same thing. They color outside the lines. Learning more theory isn't always the answer. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing a lot of knowledge is too. When you are writing trust your inner ear. Your inner ear is your sense of musical taste. We all have it and it's different for everyone.

To me there is actualy but one rule in music that ought to be followed (just my opinion): Part writing.

Whatever you do, make sure all parts/voices/lines are complete on their own. Can you listen to the drums alone without thinking: "Huh? Why is there a bar missing out of the blue". Or: "What a strange change al of a sudden".

It may sound simple but it's far from it and it is done wrong almost all the time. When people write chords they often think: This chord sounds nice after this chord etc. They forget that they are actually writing 3 or 4 (depending on the chords) melodic lines that tend to form chords, but in essence they aren't writting chord progressions. They are doing partwriting. They bass goes up a fifth and down a sixt for example. This is not nice most of the time, but it isn't realy noticed since it's a chord structure that's being percieved.

I think partwriting has a huge influence on how well a song works. If it's done badly you can hear the song "not working very well". If it's done wright they song makes sence, no matter the genre. I think Beethoven's late string quartets are the perfect example of the importance and power of good partwriting. The chords in his 'songs' are often strange and certainly unconventional, but the song works to an profound extend due to the almost perfect partwriting. And the songs Beethoven wrote are not that different from what Abba or Queen or Britney Spears do/did in essence. They combine melodic lines. You could argue that Beethovens songs are more elaborate and profound, but in the basis they are the same. All harmonic music is.

So, to the OP: Study partwriting. Haha, I'm sorry if this is a bit of topic, but I hope it will give you something to digest. Now or in the future.

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Honestly it is as hard or as easy as you make it. As well it's okay to color outside the lines. Music theory isn't cast in stone and when an item that doesn't fit conventional wisdom occurs someone theorist will call exception. Like....the bebop scale which really doesn't exist.

If you write too the harmony it's easier to make parts fit. bass players generally stick close to the root of the chord, rhythm guitarists and rhythm keys play the chord or extensions there off. Riffs and fills are specific to the chord. and the melody is scored to follow the chord.

When you work in a medium (style) you follow the guidlines of the medium. A classic example is the blues. In major blues all major chords are dominant. That doesn't fit the classical perception of key. In classical form there is only one dominant 7th chord per key. Blues is riddled with exceptions as are many popular forms of music. There is a concept of connosance and dissonance of which different means are used to achieve the same goal. Connosance means all sounds currently happening support one another. Dissonance means something sounds harsh. Styles use different means to the same goal. Sometimes you want the bitter (disonnance) so you can be rewarded with the sweet (connosance) and sometimes you want the unhappy sound to correlate with an unhappy ending. Harmonic justification is an example where by you harmonize to the melodic line outside of the key constraints. It's something that sounds right while sounding wrong in other senses. The Beatles, Paul McCartney later on as well as Stevie Wonder and many many others use this method. So long as you are in an agreement over harmony with fellow musicians there isn't a problem.

When songs usually don't work it's generally the performance which is the root of the problem or the nature of understanding how musicians operate as a group. Finding your space without stepping on someone else. Knowing when to play and when not to play. It's something musicians learn by playing with other musicians. Or the long hard struggle of recording multiple parts.

Many people get way to busy recording the first track or play it as a pad in the first steps of recording. If you fill up the first part too much you don't get room for the other parts to come in and do their thing. It can be boring and then at those points you need to push to make things happen it's not there because you've drained yourself. It no longer becomes interesting to you and if you are bored with the project then it's going to sound bored or boring. You can lose inspiration very quickly when doing it on your own or if you've done it for too long. The role of the producer used to be primarily about motivation. To bring life back to a song so it can be recorded. They'd use many techiques some psychological and some less so to bring a spark of freshness to a tune.

Simple things like changing a pattern here or there.

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