Recording Software

[MATTICUS]

Hi, I am looking to set up a home recording studio, i play guitar mainly and that will be my main instrument that i will be playing on tracks along with vocals, but i am looking for software that i will also be able to easily build drum tracks on, as well as some synth and bass as i dont have a drum kit or bass guitar but hope to purchase a midi keyboard.

What is the best software out at the moment that will fill my needs?

I've been looking at Reason/Record, pro tools, ableton , cubase, sonar & cakewalk but cant decide which will best suit my needs.

Thank you

[Prometheus]

Hi, I am looking to set up a home recording studio, i play guitar mainly and that will be my main instrument that i will be playing on tracks along with vocals, but i am looking for software that i will also be able to easily build drum tracks on, as well as some synth and bass as i dont have a drum kit or bass guitar but hope to purchase a midi keyboard.

What is the best software out at the moment that will fill my needs?

I've been looking at Reason/Record, pro tools, ableton , cubase, sonar & cakewalk but cant decide which will best suit my needs.

Thank you

What kind of budget do you have?

[MATTICUS]

What kind of budget do you have?

i'd be willing to spend up to around £350 which is about the price of pro tools 9 i think.

[Prometheus]

i'd be willing to spend up to around £350 which is about the price of pro tools 9 i think.

Okay. Now, do you already have a mixing desk, microphones and a decent sound card and all that stuff?

You can get a little Behringer mixer for around sixty or seventy quid, a decent capcitor microphone from studio spares would cost around eighty quid and an Maudio Audiophile should be about fifty odd quid. That would leave around a hundred and fifty for software.

Before you go spending three hundred and fifty quid on Pro Tools, check if there are other programs that will fulfill your needs. Behringer EnergyXT 2.5 Plus goes on studiospares for a fraction of the price of Pro Tools and will very likely have roughly the same functionality. There's also the second hand market to consider. You can get a lot of VST plugins for cheap or free, so you'll have no problems finding compressors, limiters, gates, time domain effects and all that good stuff. As a matter of fact, there's a thread on this forum about cheap or free plugins in the Recording section.

I wouldn't pay three hundred and fifty quid for Pro Tools. I still use a version of Cubase Nuendo from 2001 because it's so old I got it for nothing and because it does absolutely anything a professional sound engineer would ever need. The principles of multitrack recording have not changed at all in the last fifty years, so don't get too caught up in trying to beat the upgrade curve.

Incidentally, the stuff I've mentioned up there is all available at www.studiospares.com, and although it's all very cheap, it's all good quality kit that I'd be pleased to use myself.

[Coises]

I've been looking at Reason/Record, pro tools, ableton , cubase, sonar & cakewalk but cant decide which will best suit my needs.

Consider Reaper.

The price is quite reasonable ($60 if you qualify for the discounted license, which you probably do), and there is no “online activation” or similar junk to worry about. Apparently the work flow is a little strange to some folks that are used to one of the big name DAWs, but I’ve never found it confusing at all. (I used to have a mixing board and an 8-track analog tape machine, but I never seriously used a Digital Audio Workstation before Reaper.)

For percussion, if you need plausibly realistic drum tracks but you aren’t a drummer, consider Jamstix. (However, if you already understand drumming enough to MIDI program exactly what you want and just need a way to get the sounds without recording a live drum set, I think several other well-known percussion plug-ins probably have better sounds. Jamstix is particularly useful for folks like me who don’t really know how a drummer “thinks.”)

[MATTICUS]

Okay. Now, do you already have a mixing desk, microphones and a decent sound card and all that stuff?

You can get a little Behringer mixer for around sixty or seventy quid, a decent capcitor microphone from studio spares would cost around eighty quid and an Maudio Audiophile should be about fifty odd quid. That would leave around a hundred and fifty for software.

Before you go spending three hundred and fifty quid on Pro Tools, check if there are other programs that will fulfill your needs. Behringer EnergyXT 2.5 Plus goes on studiospares for a fraction of the price of Pro Tools and will very likely have roughly the same functionality. There's also the second hand market to consider. You can get a lot of VST plugins for cheap or free, so you'll have no problems finding compressors, limiters, gates, time domain effects and all that good stuff. As a matter of fact, there's a thread on this forum about cheap or free plugins in the Recording section.

I wouldn't pay three hundred and fifty quid for Pro Tools. I still use a version of Cubase Nuendo from 2001 because it's so old I got it for nothing and because it does absolutely anything a professional sound engineer would ever need. The principles of multitrack recording have not changed at all in the last fifty years, so don't get too caught up in trying to beat the upgrade curve.

Incidentally, the stuff I've mentioned up there is all available at www.studiospares.com, and although it's all very cheap, it's all good quality kit that I'd be pleased to use myself.

Thanks Prometheus, i should have been a bit more specific, around £350 was my budget just for software.

My total budget is £2000 from which i plan to buy:

KRK Rokit 5 G2 Monitor Speakers (£250)

Focusrite pro 24 DSP audio interface (£240)

Rode Nt1A Condenser mic (£150)

Akai MPK Mini midi controller keyboard (£70) or Alesis Q49 (£80)

Sennheiser HD 25-1 II headphones (£140)

So just the software i need to decide on really, unless anyone has a suggestion to replace any of the other individual items.

[MATTICUS]

Consider Reaper.

The price is quite reasonable ($60 if you qualify for the discounted license, which you probably do), and there is no “online activation” or similar junk to worry about. Apparently the work flow is a little strange to some folks that are used to one of the big name DAWs, but I’ve never found it confusing at all. (I used to have a mixing board and an 8-track analog tape machine, but I never seriously used a Digital Audio Workstation before Reaper.)

For percussion, if you need plausibly realistic drum tracks but you aren’t a drummer, consider Jamstix. (However, if you already understand drumming enough to MIDI program exactly what you want and just need a way to get the sounds without recording a live drum set, I think several other well-known percussion plug-ins probably have better sounds. Jamstix is particularly useful for folks like me who don’t really know how a drummer “thinks.”)

Hi Coises, thanks for the suggestion, i'm not so sure about the cheaper or free programs. I've used mixcraft before and found that it lacks features and i just get frustrated with it. Really i want a program that has everything i need included. So i can put together a drum, bass and synth track in the program and then just record the audio for the guitar and vocal parts.

So really it is a question of which software has the better drum loop creator & virtual instruments that can be controlled with a midi keyboard, but are also well suited to recording guitar and vocal audios and then has the ability to edit vocals etc matching timings & pitch correction. Ease of use is also important.

[Jim622]

Take a look at Cakewalk Guitar Tracks Pro 4. Reasonably price geared toward us (guitarist), from your post it more than fits your needs.

http://www.store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=10-CWGP4.00-30C

Jim

[JB2011]

Also consider Presonus Studio One Pro. The community is very active, and they're coming out with version 2.0 this fall. The program was written by some of the top programers formerly with Steinberg. I used to use Pro Tools, but since I also use a ton of virtual instruments I found the work flow in this program much much easier. It supports through VST3. It's not cheap, but then I also think you get what you pay for, usually.

The KRK Rokit5s are good, but I really would look at maybe the Rokit8s. The reason is that there are typically some mud frequencies around 45 Hz that can overwhelm a mix. The 8s will get you lower than that down to 44 @ -1.5 dB, but will probably go to 40 at -3 or -4. That's about 1/3 octave. The 5s cut off around 52 Hz. The monitors I currently use do fine from 63 - 20 kHz, and I found I need to buy a subwoofer because I can't hear what is going on below about 55 Hz and before I was aware of this I would boost the bass up, only to find it was muddy on other systems that were capable of handling the bass. Bass became guess-work. So I'd consider the Rokit8s.

[Prometheus]

Thanks Prometheus, i should have been a bit more specific, around £350 was my budget just for software.

My total budget is £2000 from which i plan to buy:

KRK Rokit 5 G2 Monitor Speakers (£250)

Focusrite pro 24 DSP audio interface (£240)

Rode Nt1A Condenser mic (£150)

Akai MPK Mini midi controller keyboard (£70) or Alesis Q49 (£80)

Sennheiser HD 25-1 II headphones (£140)

So just the software i need to decide on really, unless anyone has a suggestion to replace any of the other individual items.

If you're looking at setting up a studio you can expand and upgrade in future, I would advise getting a mixing desk. There are a lot of things you can do with one of them that you can't do without one.

[MATTICUS]

If you're looking at setting up a studio you can expand and upgrade in future, I would advise getting a mixing desk. There are a lot of things you can do with one of them that you can't do without one.

what will a mixing desk add? and do i really need a mixing desk as well as an audio interface? especially the focusrite saffire. i saw a pro music producer on youtube doing a live recording with a band and he had similar setup krk monitors, focusrite saffire pro 24 dsp, mic, laptop and pro tools, no mixer. what do u think?

[Coises]

what will a mixing desk add? and do i really need a mixing desk as well as an audio interface?

The utility of a mix board depends very much on how you work. Since you haven’t started yet, you probably don’t know yet how you will want to work.

Whatever you’re recording, the ideal is to have as many inputs on your audio interface as there are microphones, plus direct (“DI”) outputs and line-level outputs (possibly minus anything like a MIDI keyboard where you can record the MIDI and bounce the audio back in later) that you will be recording all at once. If you can’t do that (for example, if you’ll have several mics just on the drums, plus a couple guitars, a bassist, lead and multiple backing vocals, all to be recorded at the same time), then a mix board isn’t an option, it’s a requirement.

(You do realize that the Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP has two mic level and two line level analog inputs? The rest of the 16 inputs advertised are an optical ADAT (, an S/PDIF (2) and a stereo “loopback” virtual input (2); don’t assume you’ll be able to use the digital inputs for anything unless you already know how that works!)

On the other hand, if you will just be overdubbing, so that you’ll never exceed the input capacity of your audio interface at once, a mix board is just a convenience on the recording side. I fall in this category, and I find that a small board (I have a Mackie 802-VLZ3) is quite convenient for monitoring during overdubs, plus general organization and control of my computer output, stage piano output and microphone — it’s just easier to reach over and turn a knob than to find and drag a virtual fader. (Also, my audio interface doesn’t include mic preamps or a headphone amplifier, so I needed those anyway, and my previous solution was aging badly when I got the Mackie.)

On the mixdown side, a mix board can’t help much unless you have enough outputs on your audio interface to spit out all the individual tracks simultaneously. Even then, I’m not sure anyone wants to have to “perform the mix” as was necessary in the “old days” — it’s a lot less stressful, though admittedly less spontaneous, to use automation envelopes in your DAW software.

My personal advice would be to think about whether you will need to record more than four (given your choice of audio interface) analog inputs at once. If the answer is “yes,” then you need a mix board, period. If the answer is “no,” “probably not” or “at least not right away,” then I’d defer the mixing board — you can always add it later if you need it or if you feel like working all computer is a bit clumsy.

If you need one or two more mic preams instead of the line-level inputs, then it’s a bit of a judgement call. It’s cheaper to get mic preamps built into mixing boards (or audio interfaces), but those aren’t going to be as good as outboard preamps. If you need deeper advice on that, someone here (not me — that’s out of my league, so far) can probably give you some tips.

Edited August 20, 2011 by Coises

[MATTICUS]

The utility of a mix board depends very much on how you work. Since you haven’t started yet, you probably don’t know yet how you will want to work.

Whatever you’re recording, the ideal is to have as many inputs on your audio interface as there are microphones, plus direct (“DI”) outputs and line-level outputs (possibly minus anything like a MIDI keyboard where you can record the MIDI and bounce the audio back in later) that you will be recording all at once. If you can’t do that (for example, if you’ll have several mics just on the drums, plus a couple guitars, a bassist, lead and multiple backing vocals, all to be recorded at the same time), then a mix board isn’t an option, it’s a requirement.

(You do realize that the Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP has two mic level and two line level analog inputs? The rest of the 16 inputs advertised are an optical ADAT (, an S/PDIF (2) and a stereo “loopback” virtual input (2); don’t assume you’ll be able to use the digital inputs for anything unless you already know how that works!)

On the other hand, if you will just be overdubbing, so that you’ll never exceed the input capacity of your audio interface at once, a mix board is just a convenience on the recording side. I fall in this category, and I find that a small board (I have a Mackie 802-VLZ3) is quite convenient for monitoring during overdubs, plus general organization and control of my computer output, stage piano output and microphone — it’s just easier to reach over and turn a knob than to find and drag a virtual fader. (Also, my audio interface doesn’t include mic preamps or a headphone amplifier, so I needed those anyway, and my previous solution was aging badly when I got the Mackie.)

On the mixdown side, a mix board can’t help much unless you have enough outputs on your audio interface to spit out all the individual tracks simultaneously. Even then, I’m not sure anyone wants to have to “perform the mix” as was necessary in the “old days” — it’s a lot less stressful, though admittedly less spontaneous, to use automation envelopes in your DAW software.

My personal advice would be to think about whether you will need to record more than four (given your choice of audio interface) analog inputs at once. If the answer is “yes,” then you need a mix board, period. If the answer is “no,” “probably not” or “at least not right away,” then I’d defer the mixing board — you can always add it later if you need it or if you feel like working all computer is a bit clumsy.

If you need one or two more mic preams instead of the line-level inputs, then it’s a bit of a judgement call. It’s cheaper to get mic preamps built into mixing boards (or audio interfaces), but those aren’t going to be as good as outboard preamps. If you need deeper advice on that, someone here (not me — that’s out of my league, so far) can probably give you some tips.

Thanks, that's helpful advice. I'll only ever be recording one or two things at the same time as it's only me so it'll either be, guitar (non-mic'd), vocals (1 mic) or midi keyboard controlling synths in DAW or a mix of 2 if i have someone over to play along too. So i'd take from what you've said i wouldnt need a mixer then and the focusrite would be fine for my needs?

[Coises]

Thanks, that's helpful advice. I'll only ever be recording one or two things at the same time as it's only me so it'll either be, guitar (non-mic'd), vocals (1 mic) or midi keyboard controlling synths in DAW or a mix of 2 if i have someone over to play along too. So i'd take from what you've said i wouldnt need a mixer then and the focusrite would be fine for my needs?

Reading the Saffire Pro 24 DSP specs it looks to me as if the same two inputs that are used for microphones are used for instrument (electric guitar) inputs. The other two analog inputs appear to be strictly line level inputs. So be aware that if you’ll have, for example, two electric guitars and a voice going in at once, you’ll either need outboard preamplification or you’ll need to take at least one of the guitars as a line input from a guitar amp that has a line out.

I wouldn’t recommend getting a mix board yet. You don’t need one now, and you won’t know if you want one enough to be worth the space it takes up, or the cost, or know what kind of board you would want, until you spend some time in your new studio.

I would be sure to search the Internet for information on firewire and audio. It used to be, at least, that some computers’ built-in firewire ports didn’t play at all nicely with some firewire audio boxes. If you have a laptop (so that there is no practical way to add a dedicated firewire card), really be sure to check on experiences with your particular machine.

Edited August 20, 2011 by Coises

[Prometheus]

what will a mixing desk add?

Routing possibilities that will allow you to expand and upgrade your studio over time. Input swapping so you can apply processing from outboard units.

and do i really need a mixing desk as well as an audio interface? especially the focusrite saffire. i saw a pro music producer on youtube doing a live recording with a band and he had similar setup krk monitors, focusrite saffire pro 24 dsp, mic, laptop and pro tools, no mixer. what do u think?

I think you could get a decent desk with far more functionality than that unit for around the same price.

I wouldn't consider using a setup like that to do a live recording. It's computer based and computers crash. Analogue mixing desks have an MTBF that blows away any computer system ever built. It also seems to me that the Focusrite unit has a very paltry amount of microphone inputs, so I really don't understand, as an engineer with pro industry experience, why another engineer would approach a project like this using this unit instead of a desk. It makes no sense.

[Retrosaurus Rex]

MTBF?

[Coises]

MTBF?

Mean Time Between Failures

[Prometheus]

MTBF?

Mean Time Between Failures.

Basically just how it sounds. It's a quantified measure of how reliable a piece of equipment is that's obtained by collating stats on how many times it throws up a glitch that causes some kind of repair action (in the case of a computer usually a reboot) to be required. As anyone who's been using windows for years will know, computers buy the farm on a pretty regular basis. If Pro Tools hangs in a studio, as long as you've been making regular saves it's not a drastic problem. You just reboot it and do the take you were recording or the mix alteration you were doing again. During a live show though, you get one chance and one chance only.

Because of this, you want to use simple rugged equipment that is highly reliable that you know you have well in hand. When I've done live recordings I've always had a redundant device recording a direct to stereo mix from a set of sub outs on the desk in case the multitracker fecked up. This has saved my ass twice.

[Retrosaurus Rex]

Thanks guys! I knew I'd see the acronym before, but the meaning wasn't coming to mind...

[MATTICUS]

Thanks for your advice, but i think we've strayed a long way from the initial problem

I've just purchased some krk rp8 rokit g2 monitors and an akai mpk 49 midi keyboard, so now just need to sort an audio interface, headphones a mic and the software.

I've got a good idea of what i want with the harware so the software is the hardest decision at the moment.

I think i've narrowed it down to Reason 6 or Pro tools 9 after doing some research, any ideas which way i should go?