Pianos

[BongStuff]

Ok, next thing on the shopping list is a piano.

Before I get literally showered by 1000000's of posts   saying that TheGrand or somesuch is better, you're never going to convince me the physical experience of playing a piano is possible with software and MIDI controller keyboards...

SO...I was thinking a Yamaha upright. I'm kind of tight on space. The guy in the shop recommended something called a "U1"  ( cue bad jokes about being the forerunner to *that* Irish band ).

Anyone know anything? I guess I'm looking for something that's gonna last, is low maintenance, can take a pounding from a fair-to-middling synth player AND a baby   Oh, and is easy to record...

  BS

[davlan]

Wow a real piano. I've heard the filters are crap. BUT you may want to take the following into consideration.

1. They weigh a ton.

2. They don't necessarily sound better than a really good sampled job unless you are looking at a non upright model.

3. It will sound more characterful.

4. They're a bitch to mike up.

5. Attempts to emulate a weighted action keyboard are fairly good now. Apparantly the new Kawai is a stunner.

6. Steinberg's "The Grand" is REALLY good. Have a listen. And a play before you do anything. You can cart this one about in laptop.

7. Much of the piano's expression is derived from the keyboard action. But a decent dig piano might cost you more than an upright.

8. I would imagine the real thing is less consistant than it's digital counterpart. I've played a few ( even some really good ones - Bosondorfer) that just don't feel very good. You'll have to spend some time shopping around.

Have fun

Dave

[Didier]

Wow a real piano. I've heard the filters are crap. BUT you may want to take the following into consideration.

1. They weigh a ton.

Agreed.

2. They don't necessarily sound better than a really good sampled job unless you are looking at a non upright model.

It depends on what kind of upright we're speaking of. I wouldn't trade my 1900 (but with a "crossed" metal frame fitted in the 70s) Mahogany Elcke for anything. It's sure that most new upright I've tested do not make it for me.

3. It will sound more characterful.

That's why I love my piano. If the aim is a "general purpose" instrument, then I would agree you might as well go for a sampled job. It's the same with old guitars and amps. If you want something all purpose, it's better to buy a Pod.

4. They're a bitch to mike up.

I didn't find that too difficult. And I have only mid/low quality electrets. It sure requires a lot of experimentation.

5. Attempts to emulate a weighted action keyboard are fairly good now. Apparantly the new Kawai is a stunner.

No comment on that.

6. Steinberg's "The Grand" is REALLY good. Have a listen. And a play before you do anything. You can cart this one about in laptop.

Same here, I haven't tried this thing.

7. Much of the piano's expression is derived from the keyboard action.

Partly, but not only. The sound itself, with all the "defaults" produced by real wood and steel is part of it too.

7. But a decent dig piano might cost you more than an upright.

I suppose it's true.

8. I would imagine the real thing is less consistant than it's digital counterpart. I've played a few ( even some really good ones - Bosondorfer) that just don't feel very good. You'll have to spend some time shopping around.

I do agree. I've tested pianos which were suposed to be great (the price was high enough, anyway), which I really disliked. The best compromise I have tested are "1/4 grands" (don't know how one calls that in English), some of which (to my tastes) were better than full size grands.

Just as for a guitar, you just don't read the brand and the specs. You have to try it for real, each one can be different.

Just my 2 Euro cents.

Didier

[Didier]

Ok, next thing on the shopping list is a piano.

Hi Bongstuff,

Welcome to the world of real wood (and not only to make it pretty like on old synths).

Before I get literally showered by 1000000's of posts   saying that TheGrand or somesuch is better, you're never going to convince me the physical experience of playing a piano is possible with software and MIDI controller keyboards...

I do agree on this one.

Anyone know anything? I guess I'm looking for something that's gonna last

Only reputation (or someone really knowledgeable) can tell you that.

, is low maintenance,

Maintenance is fairly the same for all pianos, unless they are crap to begin with. Tuning (at least twice a year), and mechanical revision every 5 to 10 years is my experience. But I'm not playing 10 hours a day.

can take a pounding from a fair-to-middling synth player AND a baby  

If you have only played synths before, I guess *any* piano can take it

As for the baby, depends on the weight, providing he walks on the keyboard.

Oh, and is easy to record...

Any normal upright would be nearly the same to this respect.

Didier

[BongStuff]

Cheers for the responses Didier/Dave!

Just to give you a bit more background, I am actually a fairly proficient pianist, albeit turned to the dark side of electronics   I've got classical training to Associated Board Grade 5 ( got BORED at 6 ) for what it's worth, and my Mum is a music teacher, so I've grown up with pianos always in the house. I can read and write scored music fairly well. I've also made several recordings as a sound engineer for broadcast of piano pieces. So not a *complete* piano noob.

But anyway, a few points...

Dave, 'preciate your input. And I'll probably still use software based pianos for recording any kind of dancey/poppy techno stuff. I'm deffo going to check out THE GRAND once I get up and running. But there's something wonderfully tactile about creeping into a darkened room and just lifting the lid on the ol' Joanna and tinkling away. No laptops. No headphones ( YUK ). No amp. No speakers. No MIDI leads. No fans or hard drives whirring. It's a different experience from sitting in a room surrounded by all that stuff.

Even things like just pressing the sustain pedal ( LOUD pedal ) without playing any notes, and listening to all the hammers lift off the strings, giving that wonderfully deep and distant atimbral FOOOOM I love.

And I often find it's much easier to write the roots of a song/track in that non-hi-tech environment. If I *do* record it, it would probably just be to "notepad" songwriting ideas - one stereo mike and the minidisc ( see earlier thread on Recording ). The room has nice wooden floors so it should sound good enough for that.

Didier, yeah I'm definitely going to shop around. The Yamahas I played in the one shop I've been to seemed to have the best action for a synth-defector like me Quite light but positive - no sponge! Nice bright sound too which I liked. Going to wait until I've tried at least a dozen ( that I can afford ) before purchase. Thanks for the info on tuning. I guess I'd need to have it in a room that's fairly even in temperature too?!

But lastly - Dave - let's not forget you WILL get more girls playing the piano as opposed to a laptop and MIDI controller  

  BS

[Didier]

Cheers for the responses Didier/Dave!

You're welcome

Just to give you a bit more background, I am actually a fairly proficient pianist, albeit turned to the dark side of electronics   piano pieces.

...So not a *complete* piano noob.

Sorry about my assumptions then. You're probably more a pianist than I am

Didier, yeah I'm definitely going to shop around. The Yamahas I played in the one shop I've been to seemed to have the best action for a synth-defector like me Quite light but positive - no sponge! Nice bright sound too which I liked.

For me, the main difference is in the basses. When I try a piano, a hard hit of the left hand usually tells me a lot whether I would like a piano or not. Mind you, I don't train enough to break a string with my little finger but the transition from very light touch to very hard "strokes" is something I would really miss in the digital world.

Thanks for the info on tuning. I guess I'd need to have it in a room that's fairly even in temperature too?!

As far as possible, but dew level is important too. It shouldn't be too dry, otherwise the wood suffers, and you get out of tune quickly.

The "rule of thumb" of tuning twice a year is related to turning heating on and off. Tuning should be done 1 to two weeks after, once the combination of temperature and dew level is stabilised.

Perhaps, if you live in a cold enough country (where heating is always on), you don't have to tune at all

But lastly - Dave - let's not forget you WILL get more girls playing the piano as opposed to a laptop and MIDI controller  

Providing you manage to get the girls where the piano is. That's probably why I took on the guitar

Didier

[Steve]

Providing you manage to get the girls where the piano is. That's probably why I took on the guitar

Guitarists rule, keyboardists... drool...  

[davlan]

But lastly - Dave - let's not forget you WILL get more girls playing the piano as opposed to a laptop and MIDI controller  

  BS

From reading previous threads I think that there is far too much emphasis, with regard to groupies, on what instrument you play. Aren't we forgetting that it is actually the haircut that counts.

Absolutely understand the point about tactile response! But I taught myself to play piano on a digital job and have always struggled to play the real thing as the dynamics are very different. My partner brought a boudoir grand to our relationship which, although it looks great, I just don't like playing. It's very LOUD. Very difficult to play anything subtle. But that's just me. When you are self taught there is a likelyhood that you'll leave gaps in your technique. Not willing to go through all the hard slog that this takes. As a result my right hand plays like Mozart while my left like Po from the Teletubbies

And why shouldn't you use your real piano on dance tracks? Be different!

[BongStuff]

Sorry about my assumptions then. You're probably more a pianist than I am

well maybe - but I can tell you for sure I am a very out-of-practice one! Il faut practiquer, souvent!

Anyway. do you think a humidifier would be good for the "piano room"?

As for central heating...I now live in England, so it's not really that cold. Not compared to Scotland or Finland anyway.

 BS

[BongStuff]

From reading previous threads I think that there is far too much emphasis, with regard to groupies, on what instrument you play. Aren't we forgetting that it is actually the haircut that counts.

Hmmm...yeah you've got a point there dude. And not of course forgetting the cucumber-down-the-trousers too...

And why shouldn't you use your real piano on dance tracks? Be different!

Well, hey, yeah! Why the **** not? I guess, rather than have to "perform" a dance piano riff ( which is why I reckoned sequencing it would be better ) I guess I could jam over the track a few times "live" then pick the best parts our with an editor then spin them back into CuBase as audio tracks...

  BS

[Didier]

well maybe - but I can tell you for sure I am a very out-of-practice one! Il faut practiquer, souvent!

Alas, yes. You keep the fundamentals easily, but the speed, timing, smoothness, and left/right hand coordination is lost very fast.

Anyway. do you think a humidifier would be good for the "piano room"?

In England?

Seriously though, it doesn't have to be a real humidifier. When I was a kid, it was just the bottom of a cut plastic bottle, with some water in it, near the piano.

In my current location, as it isn't that dry, I don't use anything.

As for central heating...I now live in England, so it's not really that cold. Not compared to Scotland or Finland anyway.

Which means, as I wrote, that you should have tuning at least twice a year.

Didier

[davlan]

Sounds like hassle!

[Didier]

Sounds like hassle!

Hi Davlan,

Like most living things (or things made out of living materials).

Didier

[davlan]

Hey, that's about how often I tune my guitar!

Unfortunately I have found that computer based systems ar not so hassle free either.

[Stefanos]

i must say i prever the real thing as well. I play a steinbech piano sometimes at my students church. And even thought it's not the best thing in the world, it plays super and it has caracter.

Whish my parents had bought me a good playing and sounding piano. But i am quite uptight about what i really like.

Went to a big piano shop oce to play. And offcourse i only liked the expensive ones