Keyboardists, advice

[Donna]

Hey!

How do I comp on one chord (or vamp)? Don't say do like you would on a guitar, cause I don't really know how to do that either, other than varying the rythym of strumming the chord.

Just...priciples, should I be hanging for the 3rd or fifth of the chord? Or what? We are talking one hand, gentlemen - just how to vary the triad or whatever so I'm not stuck just playing the chord.

Thanks much.

[hariossa]

well, I'm not a keyboard player, but I do play/program simple keyboard parts for my songs.

you can allways add other notes from the scale in the right hand, what I usually do is to play triad or tetrade notes in the strong beats, and non-triad notes in the weak beats, also you can try to play scale runs as "chord glue".

an example of my humble keyboard skills is my tune "don't know how to reach you", if you want to get an idea....

gotta go!!

[Donna]

Hari, thanks, it does help. Just to clarify then, the example you gave, you're playing that with your right hand?

I listened to "Don't Know How To Reach You" and thus heard what you're talking about. That is a sophisticated melody and song. All your stuff strikes me that way...and "Splinter In My Mind" is all that, plus a major hoot.

See ya.

(PS: you were right, shoulda got a bass first - I am pining for one! Gonna see what I can possibly round up...actually an upright would be fantastic. I'm certain some part of the 12 yr old me remembers how to work that fretboard)

Edited February 9, 2006 by Donna

[hariossa]

I think I'm using both hands... when you have a bass line aside from the keyboard part, the left hand of the keyboard can play higher and more freely.

I studied harmony and theory some years ago, but right now I just use my ears. trust yours and experiment!!

thanks for your kind words.

[john]

Hey!

How do I comp on one chord (or vamp)? Don't say do like you would on a guitar, cause I don't really know how to do that either, other than varying the rythym of strumming the chord.

Just...priciples, should I be hanging for the 3rd or fifth of the chord? Or what? We are talking one hand, gentlemen - just how to vary the triad or whatever so I'm not stuck just playing the chord.

Thanks much.

Hey Donna

I guess the first thing is, that without deviating from the triad you can play inversions of the chord.. 1st 2nd and 3rd.

In terms of other "passing" notes, it really depends on musical style, and where you are in that styles chord progression. For example blues. Does it use a flattened 3rd 5th or 7th? Are you playing 12 bar? If so what part of the progression are you on?

lastly there are chromatic progressions, but this is not a common set of passing notes for most styles.

Does this help, or did I just make the mud swirl?

Cheers

John

[Donna]

Hee hee.

No you didn't, it's a good starting point.

Glad you mention inversions, which I almost always use. Maybe try a straight triad first and progress to inversion?

Sigh. ...ya know those 70's rock jams (esp. live) where the guitarist is soloing and "Viv Savage" is hanging on the hammond B3, punching percussive things. But he's changing chords at the same time. I know, I said "vamp/comp". 4 beats is a long time if you only hit the "one!"

So...to comp, but also to change quickly (I think I can figure out the latter).

So I do wish to comp on this. I am trying to learn a part, actually, and it's very difficult to hear what's being done. My buddy Loo did it and he won't remember what he'd done since that was years ago. And his baby being new and all, I cannot bother him hardly at all!

Wouldn't it be easier to get a keyboard player? Yes - the problem is Loo has spolied me rotten and I don't know any pianists who play in his style (which, for every song he's played on of mine is PERFECT, arggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh)

[ATom2]

I could tell ya, but it's all my secret!

[john]

Hee hee.

No you didn't, it's a good starting point.

Glad you mention inversions, which I almost always use. Maybe try a straight triad first and progress to inversion?

Sigh. ...ya know those 70's rock jams (esp. live) where the guitarist is soloing and "Viv Savage" is hanging on the hammond B3, punching percussive things. But he's changing chords at the same time. I know, I said "vamp/comp". 4 beats is a long time if you only hit the "one!"

So...to comp, but also to change quickly (I think I can figure out the latter).

So I do wish to comp on this. I am trying to learn a part, actually, and it's very difficult to hear what's being done. My buddy Loo did it and he won't remember what he'd done since that was years ago. And his baby being new and all, I cannot bother him hardly at all!

Wouldn't it be easier to get a keyboard player? Yes - the problem is Loo has spolied me rotten and I don't know any pianists who play in his style (which, for every song he's played on of mine is PERFECT, arggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh)

Why not make a midi recording of Loo? You can then break that down so you can see what he's doing? One session should do.

The most common form of stabs (ala 70's hippy freakin' on a hammond or sumat like that) is using the suspended form of the chord, and of course the 2nd note.i.e. for C Maj playing CDEG. A progression might look like: CEG CDG CEG CDEG CEFG CEG CEFG CEG

It's not a great prog, but it should show how you can comp (a bit) without much effort. That said, without the rhythm element, it'll sound pretty bland. To do it well, like anything takes practice and experimenting. Can you read standard music notation?

Cheers

John

[Donna]

(Atom, you are a wisconsin beast! I complained to Loo yesterday that the keyboardists here were being naughty and not replying - and you have sadly proved me right).

John, yes! This will help a lot, the little diagram you wrote up...I just need something to start on.

I did "bother" him about all this since last post. He remembers nothing of the tune. However, he offered to listen to it, so I think a road trip to his babyhouse is in order.

Yes, I can read simple notation. Your diagram ain't wasted even if Mike ("Loo" - I go by either name) gives me the whole rundown "for I will surely face this situation again." The rythym is not a big problem, I'll just practice.

Ta-ta. Have a good one!

PS: Hari thanks for the "trust your ears" part...

PPS: It'd be fantastic if Mike came here. He'd mix in really well, I think. The guy is a monster writer; great affinity between us because of mutual musical admiration/understanding. It's a rare friendship - am realizing this more, with the passing of years.

And ain't it funny? I was all set to record with him last Fall. But we could not mesh our schedules, and then the family just needing to nest together the last weeks of the pregnancy...that sorta thing can come up out of the blue, as it were, you just have to stop the world and get off NOW...

Well, because of Loo not available, that's why I ended up searching online for...I didn't know what, just knew I was on my own for awhile. I searched one night and found the link to Songstuff...and couldn't believe my good fortune. So that's how I got here.

[Steve]

Does this help, or did I just make the mud swirl?

Ill take a mud swirl! With 5 sugars and cream please!

[john]

When you have a mud swirl, be careful, the earth will move!

[hariossa]

PS: Hari thanks for the "trust your ears" part...

if it sounds good, it must be a reason for it...

I believe that music is an art that deals with 2 forces: relax and tension, you gotta mix those two in order to make you feel good in a song.

right now I'm working in a slow song that only has 1 chord, it moves in a very relaxed level but I'm trying to build tension and interest using simple variations of the same... and a lot of voices...

last song I finnished had 2 chords, I think I'm moving fast into the minimalistic area.

maybe I should take some vitamin pils...

...pils!!

I ran out of beer!!!

bye!

[Donna]

Ha ha.

I would be interested in hearing that one chord song. Sounds like a profitable approach. Been chasing simplicityfor awhile now, albeit in a different way.

S & J > Mud Swirl: That's not really a drink, is it?

Edited February 12, 2006 by Donna

[hariossa]

I'll show it to you as soon as I finnish it... right now I'm planning to change part of the bass line and add a slide solo or something, voices are all done, keyboard too (a rhodes).

Percussion in this song was a lot of fun to record, (I know I'm going off topic, sorry), I recorded myself hitting a lot of stuff but mostly an udu, I just played freely, improvising, I'm an absolute ignorant about traditional udu patterns or anything; Then chopped out the best measures and used them building the song... the new mic did an exellent job.

I also recorded some "tribal" voices to the song, which is me shouting weird nonesense... it sounds good at the end of the song, but my throat can't stand more of it.

sorry for going off topic, but you are the ony musicians near at this moment, just wanted to share...

cheers!!

[john]

Ha ha.

I would be interested in hearing that one chord song. Sounds like a profitable approach. Been chasing simplicityfor awhile now, albeit in a different way.

S & J > Mud Swirl: That's not really a drink, is it?

Not that I know of. There is a mud shake: Milk, vodka and kahlua.

Hey I should have posted that to the cocktails thread.

[ATom2]

(Atom, you are a wisconsin beast! I complained to Loo yesterday that the keyboardists here were being naughty and not replying - and you have sadly proved me right).

Sorry I was just goofin' with ya, but up until now I wasn't sure how to help as you appear to be looking for a text book type answer.

The best advise I can give you coming from a keyboard player is not to worry about how to play something but more of when and what feels and sounds interesting to you!

Believe me, many a player died (musically) because they were too worried about the how part rather than what felt good. In many cases, you can simply enhance a song with a few individual notes instead of fancy chords.

I know that is a wide open door, but that is how I operate.

Tom

[Guest voclizr]

Donna;

When I do keyboard stuff I like to play with chord voicings. Example C Major chord CEG (or 1-3-5). You can go EGC (3-5-1) or GCE (5-1-3). Varying these produces different tonal characteristics but keeps the chord the same.

JB

PS: You can even add a 4th tone for a seventh or major/minor seventh or diminished/augmented with one hand.

[Donna]

ATom, yah (midwestern scandanavian "yes" for all you others), I may've wanted a textbook answer. Thought there was a formula.

But I like your answer - even better along w/ examples from John and John B .

Hari, what is an udu - you'd think a drummer would know. The tune sounds really interesting, will watch for it.

I'm in some serious February funk right now. Keep trying to exercise and all, but just deeply tired or bored or something. It'll turn around, though I trust.

[Steve]

Ha ha.

I would be interested in hearing that one chord song. Sounds like a profitable approach. Been chasing simplicityfor awhile now, albeit in a different way.

S & J > Mud Swirl: That's not really a drink, is it?

This is absolutely a true story! I used to play in a duo with a mate. (me on Bass) We played a small pub out in the sticks one sunday night. It was probably the worst gig we had ever played. The audience were not interested, and nobody was listening. My mate then launched into 'Just the Way You Are' by Billy Joel. On one chord and in a stereo typical pub singers voice! We played the whole song on C!! It was dreadful! But the worst part?

NOBODY NOTICED!!!

[hariossa]

well, here you can find some info about the udu:

Udu site

bye!!