How many of you know about Airwindows plugins?

[Mahesh]

Hello,

 

Recently, I've been exploring Airwindows plugins, and I have to say, I’m so impressed. For those who haven’t heard of them, Airwindows offers a range of free, high-quality audio plugins that are unique in that they come with no or little GUI—just pure sound. At first, I was thrown off by the lack of GUI but man, these little plugins are so special. There are hundreds of them plus you get a consolidated VST which contains all of them!

 

I’ve been using a few of them, and here are some of my favorites so far:

 

• Console8: This has been a game-changer for me. It adds a really nice, subtle analog warmth that brings tracks to life. It has a little bit of a learning curve but once you set it up across your individual tracks, sub mixes and master track, even without ANY other adjustments, it brings the mix together well with a good saturated sound. 

• BitShiftGain: It’s a simple but effective gain plugin that offers bit-perfect gain staging. Super clean and transparent. This has become my go-to gain plugin. 

• Widener: This one does a great job at enhancing the stereo image without making things sound artificial. I've been using this quite a bit.

• Reverbs: The reverbs are another standout. They might not look like much, but they sound lush and natural. Verbity2 is my fav from the many on the list. 

 

What I really like about these plugins is that they force you to listen rather than getting caught up in watching meters, graphs, and knobs. It’s a different approach, and I’ve found it really helps me focus on the sound, which is what I need at the moment.

 

I’m curious—has anyone else here used Airwindows plugins? What’s your experience been like? If you haven’t tried them yet, I’d definitely recommend giving them a go. They might surprise you.

 

You can check it out here: https://www.airwindows.com/

[GregB]

Interesting topic.  I'm no expert in mixing/production, and I've found the 'techie' aspect to be a HUGE distraction from the core focus of making music.  

 

There are hundreds of competing plugins, many free, available for every possible DAW function ... EQ, Reverb, Limiting, Width, etc. ... and, within that function, they all do much the same thing.  The ones you mentioned don't appear to be unique.  And why bother with a separate gain plugin? ... the DAWs I know about all offer  clip gain without any need for a plugin.

While producing my first home-studio album in 2014, I disappeared down many a rabbit-hole testing effect plugins that promised production fairy dust.  So much time and energy was wasted for little to no benefit.  I made the decision (quite soon, thank goodness) to stick with the stock plugins, and then never looked back.  

 

The benefits include not only personal efficiency but also system efficiency.  Every plugin is a program that uses system resources.  It only takes one problem plugin to screw you over ... slowing the signal chain or even introducing faults, glitches and crashes.  By contrast, the DAW-maker has a market imperative to make its own plugins highly efficient and to keep them so as the DAW evolves and also as new versions of the operating system are released. 

 

Sticking with native plugins also cuts down on the need for additional 3rd-party plugin 'Managers',  account/passwords, and marketing emails 

 

The only 3rd-party plugins I still bother testing are synthesisers, just for their sound presets.

 

All personal opinion of course!  

[john]

I checked this out when you posted it. I had heard the name, but that is all.

 

I hear you on the techie but Greg, and I’m a techie nerd. I’m sure it’s not the case, but it’s almost like he forgot the purpose of it all. At the same time I completely get why it happened. We only get to enjoy a fantastic VST platform BECAUSE he obsesses about that level of detail. He spends an inordinate amount of time caring about the innards of the VST, about the mathematical calculations and process required to allow audio manipulation with such control. I’ve coded up music apps before, and designed the same in both analogue and digital domains, and there is so much detail involved it’s not funny. You are submerged in the detail and it can be hard to see past it when you have pressure on you for new releases. It’s easy to lose sight of the ‘why?’. A bit like running a music community! I used to have to spend so much time in the bowels of Songstuff that I had much less chance to enjoy the community and much much less time to make music. All now remedied!

 

That aside, it looks like an interesting set up. It’s hard to get a handle on the system as a a whole because the videos focused on small details and less on the tasks you are trying to achieve.

 

The individual plugins do look like they might be really good to explore… but it’s a bit like buying a large modular synth. True, you will probably be able to create some awesome sounds, but recreating patches is a nightmare. I didn’t really get a feel on managing that aspect of the plug ins. I think it has a lot of potential… but while he may be an expert in audio processing an effects and processor design, I think they really could do with an expert in the user experience to improve the interface and approach it from a usability perspective.

 

The last thing, while I applaud the level of control, so many options with such a plain interface, it makes it harder to get into, it is less engaging and takes longer to learn before you get a result. For anyone that is a beginner that is prohibitive. Only the most stubborn will persevere, unless they already understand the controls on offer.

 

So that brings about the next suggestion: that they hire a demonstrator. He seems like a nice guy, but he is far from the most engaging. I really do wish them well. I’m a nerd so really quite looking forward to trying it all out… when I have a lot of time to do so.

 

I honestly don’t mean to be mean. I’m just calling out the issues that I see at this stage. I am glad Mahesh has encouraged me to look at the VSTs.

 

Cheers

 

John

[Mahesh]

All good points by both of you!

 

Some things raised that I may wanna add to.

 

- CPU efficiency is key when it comes to post production work for me. Especially when I've an M1 MacBook Air from which I do all of my work. These plugins by design being so tiny along with the lack of fancy graphs and visual elements make them extremely CPU efficient, arguably than even some of the stock plugins themselves.

 

- The lack of many knobs and controls is not always good particularly when it comes to things like EQ, side chain compression & anything requiring precise surgical work. So I've found these plugins to be useful only when I don't want to think too much and just want to slap it on and move things around until I like the sound I hear. Things like saturation, stereo widening, console emulation and some other cool fx particularly in later parts of the mixing process are where these little plugins come in handy for me. So I must say the applications for this "genre" of plugins are limited. Which brings me to the next point...

 

- John is right, this guy is a very nerdy analog dude who is putting no effort into convincing anybody why or how these plugins should be used. He isn't a producer. As somebody who's spent many hours over his videos and relentless tech talk (so that none of you would have to) and from what I've read about him and his plugins - he knows his stuff and a lot of people within the space swear by his word. He literally asks his followers not to use the plugin if they don't know why it exists. Pretty strange business strategy and a very narrow demographic being served lol but it is what it is I guess.

 

- I'm also of the opinion that mixing is the art of listening and not about the tech that goes behind it. But as long as one is aware of this and is able to separate the two, there's nothing wrong at all for a musician to be curious and obsessed about the tech side of things even if as just another quirk of being musically inclined. I just want to point out that these two aren't exclusive and they don't have to be. And sometimes knowing what goes behind the scenes may empower your process than hinder it. Anything too much or too less of something can be a potential problem. I've seen this to be the case particularly  with music marketing. Many tend to stray away from nerdy marketing talk within the music space which puts them in a place of disadvantage a lot of the time(especially if you are a full time musician by choice like me). And those who obsess too much about it tend to lose the purpose and joy of music making. Balance, common logic & practicality are the words I guess.

 

- He definitely needs someone from a mixing background to do the demo video work lol

 

[john]

52 minutes ago, Mahesh said:

All good points by both of you!

 

Some things raised that I may wanna add to.

 

- CPU efficiency is key when it comes to post production work for me. Especially when I've an M1 MacBook Air from which I do all of my work. These plugins by design being so tiny along with the lack of fancy graphs and visual elements make them extremely CPU efficient, arguably than even some of the stock plugins themselves.

 

- The lack of many knobs and controls is not always good particularly when it comes to things like EQ, side chain compression & anything requiring precise surgical work. So I've found these plugins to be useful only when I don't want to think too much and just want to slap it on and move things around until I like the sound I hear. Things like saturation, stereo widening, console emulation and some other cool fx particularly in later parts of the mixing process are where these little plugins come in handy for me. So I must say the applications for this "genre" of plugins are limited. Which brings me to the next point...

 

- John is right, this guy is a very nerdy analog dude who is putting no effort into convincing anybody why or how these plugins should be used. He isn't a producer. As somebody who's spent many hours over his videos and relentless tech talk (so that none of you would have to) and from what I've read about him and his plugins - he knows his stuff and a lot of people within the space swear by his word. He literally asks his followers not to use the plugin if they don't know why it exists. Pretty strange business strategy and a very narrow demographic being served lol but it is what it is I guess.

 

- I'm also of the opinion that mixing is the art of listening and not about the tech that goes behind it. But as long as one is aware of this and is able to separate the two, there's nothing wrong at all for a musician to be curious and obsessed about the tech side of things even if as just another quirk of being musically inclined. I just want to point out that these two aren't exclusive and they don't have to be. And sometimes knowing what goes behind the scenes may empower your process than hinder it. Anything too much or too less of something can be a potential problem. I've seen this to be the case particularly  with music marketing. Many tend to stray away from nerdy marketing talk within the music space which puts them in a place of disadvantage a lot of the time(especially if you are a full time musician by choice like me). And those who obsess too much about it tend to lose the purpose and joy of music making. Balance, common logic & practicality are the words I guess.

 

- He definitely needs someone from a mixing background to do the demo video work lol

 

Likewise, all good points. I do see some benefits and the appeal.
 

Just to clarify something after looking at my last reply… and it is backed up by @Mahesh’s comments about hours spent watching videos… and the creators own comments: we live in the time of the instant gratification generation, and general attitude now. Most users don’t know and don’t learn theory. Most users simply apply presets. They don’t care if a few people in the know can pick apart their song and spot presets. They only care about being good enough for their friends and others with similarly uneducated ears.

 

They will not sit through videos. This is a style over form audience that care almost as much about is looks as what it does. They struggle to see the value in the cost vs gain calculation… how much will in cost in cash + how much time does it take to learn + how much time to execute vs how much of a noticeable difference will it make.

 

Lastly, we are in a time to market scenario where TTM is critical. Multiply that many times for new artists trying to catch a break. When you work out that building your audience puts you in a space where you can expect to release a new song ideally each 4-6 weeks, time recording, mixing and producing and mastering is very restricted. It requires tight schedules which pushes to simpler stripped back arrangements, easy workflows and minimal learning time.

 

Such plugins work far better with artists who don’t care about breaking through, whose fans are barely an afterthought, and who are completely unambitious. Otherwise, there is a penalty to be paid.

 

Don’t get me wrong, you can absolutely set aside time to learn and relearn each update (does he design in backwards compatibility?). You might not even realise you have paid a penalty, but if it’s been longer than 6 weeks since your last release you are already paying a penalty.

 

You also pay penalty by having to set up every song from scratch. More time.

 

Each update equals more time.

[Mahesh]

12 hours ago, john said:

Such plugins work far better with artists who don’t care about breaking through,

 

I strongly disagree with this but I see the point you're trying to make. Plugins don't decide who breaks thru or doesn't. One's ability to use them in the context of what is needed to get the mix going does. Sure, I can see a lot of people who don't want to learn the technical subtleties wanting to rely on plugins that don't need a lot of learning or is simplistic. Maybe even extremely nerdy music grad types who'd shit on everything but their own approach and ways of doing things using these because they "understand" music better than them listeners out there.

 

But I can also see many who are serious about their work finding a plugin out of these and realizing that it gets the job done with a sound that their professional ears can find pleasing and as needed for their creative path.

[john]

3 hours ago, Mahesh said:

Plugins don't decide who breaks thru or doesn't. One's ability to use them in the context of what is needed to get the mix going does.

 

Exactly, as does every decision or activity that adds to time to market and cost. That is the only reason that they work better for artists who don’t care (for whatever reason) about breaking through… because it negates TTM being an issue.

 

3 hours ago, Mahesh said:

But I can also see many who are serious about their work finding a plugin out of these and realizing that it gets the job done with a sound that their professional ears can find pleasing and as needed for their creative path.

 

Which is fine on a creative level. However, if they have yet to break through time has a massive impact. It’s not something I decide. It doesn’t affect the first release, as long as you don’t mind some delay, but if you want it not to impact the following releases, you have to add time to bank tracks.

 

In some non-pop markets there is less of a punishment of delay. When you are trying to be close to on-trend with sound and production too long a delay is hugely costly and can cause re-dos.

 

There are harsh realities when you release music. If it is just for yourself, your own artistic satisfaction, for fun etc, none of what I said matters. You can literally take as long as you want.

 

When you want to pursue music as a career, that one decision makes a load of others with it. Sure you can deviate, but the consequences are potentially career ending.

 

If you are an artist, happy to be a pro, but with no ambition to “break through” again, you can pretty well do what you want. Consequences are still there, but they are less career ending. They are more likely to see you becoming a semipro, or at least, while you can make up your income from other musical sources, being a semi pro-artist is more likely.

 

I attach a very particular understanding to “breaking through”. it is about having enough momentum that you break through the ceiling into the limelight of general public awareness, or at a minimum niche audience awareness. That ceiling is lower for niche audiences and there is less competition, yet still it does exist.

 

That brings with it a whole host of related thresholds, relationships, activities, budgets etc. We don’t decide them, they just are. They do change with shifts in society and technology, but they don’t tend to change quickly. I do not decide them any more than you do. However, our decisions and our careers are subject to these limits, thresholds, costs etc, just as we are subject to the laws of our ecosystem, like gravity.

 

The music industry has its own gravity. It’s own inertia. It’s own resistance. It’s own friction.

 

You make a release, it attracts eyes and ears. Instantly a timer starts ticking. There is no hard and fast rule, it is inexact. You see we partly depend on luck, on top of more predictable timing elements.

 

You see, it is a war for attention. Engagement is in part a measurement of attention. We know that if attention is low, engagement is low. We know that when we make a big splash, we attract attention. We are then in a constant war to retain attention. When we build attention we build momentum, and we rise up higher. The higher we go the longer we can glide when released, before we hit the ground again. The closer we get to the ground, the more of that previous momentum is completely lost.

 

When not releasing music we drift back closer to the position of never having released music before, with next to no momentum. The longer you go after a release the more you struggle for relevant content. Sure you can start posting influencer content, which doesn’t build the right audience, the audience for your music.

 

My point remains, if you want to “break through” to greater awareness that see you enter into public consciousness, in pop or at a lower level within a niche genre, then that decision brings with it some baggage. You can absolutely decide not to abide by any of those, but you are then trying to win a race with a stone in your show, weights around your ankles etc. You get the idea.

 

You would not be the first to wish it was otherwise, and you would not be the last.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

PS

 

You can of course try to change the world. The more you do that, the bigger the risk. The bigger the risk, the closer you get to it being less painful to  dig a hole to throw all your cash, time and music in, before burying it.

 

Bear in mind that success in music industry (by standard interpretations of that word in a career sense) is a lottery ticket at the best of times. Is it wise to make winning even less likely?

[Mahesh]

I see what you're saying John, but I still don't understand how any of that relates to why one category of people would use certain kind of plugins over the others. It seems like you are saying that with the assumption that such plugins add delay.(no puns intended) Which is the fundamental place of disagreement here.

 

Let's take these very plugins. If I find something I like in it and it does the job (maybe even better than others) and I've the ability to add them onto my channel strip or my automation template and they sound good, how is it adding to the delay that you're talking about? Those plugins may even add to the kind of "sound" you maybe going for and creating for an entire project/album. It's just a plugin that did its job and I'm not thinking about it beyond that. I move on.

 

There seems to be an assumption that in order to learn a plugin, you'll have to sit thru videos for hours. I don't think that's the case especially with these plugins above that often have few knobs that can do a lot to manipulate the sound. Moreover, if you're picking a delay plugin regardless of brand, you know what a delay plugin is supposed to do. You don't have to relearn that every time. I watched the videos cuz I'm a nerd lol but anybody can just slap on the plugin, move the few knobs around and they know what it does to their signal. This is how many mixing and mastering legends suggest people to learn. My earlier point of obsessing over technicalities were not to put it on a pedastal, but just to show anything of too much or too less can be bad.

 

A lot of serious musicians plan soooo very much but when it comes to execution are too hung up on the details to release music at all. They lose the TTM window. Some are very good at keeping the frequency but are all over the place with the quality or strategy of delivery and engagement of their audiences because they are always on a race.

 

I clearly don't see what you mean here because of this.

 

[Mahesh]

Also, I'd like for us to come back to the talk of plugins on here. So please feel free to start another topic where we can continue this broad conversation

[Mahesh]

6 hours ago, john said:

Which is fine on a creative level. However, if they have yet to break through time has a massive impact. I

 

I don't disagree with you here. I'm disagreeing with why such plugins would need more time than the others you may consider that don't?

 

Is it because the guy who made the plugins puts videos that are long and rambly? (which I agree with you!) is it because you think one has to go thru it to learn how to use the plugin? (because I don't)

 

Again I watched it for hours because I like watching such things. I'm sure musicians have all kinds of hobbies that they engage in outside of their TTM window; which they'd participate in for hours - video games, spending time with family, hiking, watching music theory YouTube videos, or maybe about plugins. I'm not gonna put all of that in one basket and go - how are these affecting my TTM?

 

I might have an expectation or timeline for myself. But if I start calculating math for every second I spend outside of my creative process, I might as well add more time to my creative process thereby doing exactly what you think artists shouldn't do. Lol

[john]

1 hour ago, Mahesh said:

Is it because the guy who made the plugins puts videos that are long and rambly?

 

Partly. Partly the learning of the underlying topics which taken together is a lot. Partly because once there, how the plug in relates to all that is possible in this realm is not explained. Partly related to that there are no explained usage scenarios… which, in addition the user has to learn, in order to wonder if the interface and underlying plug in can achieve this.

 

Sure you could take what you already know from other plug ins and try and adapt it, you could also tweak around and just see what happens. I noticed he has also added extra controls that go beyond that which is typical, because he could include them.

 

Partly that having learned it all, along comes an update, potentially with limited if any backwards compatibility, and bang you are back learning again. Trying to recreate an old mix? You’ll need the old plug in too.

 

1 hour ago, Mahesh said:

Again I watched it for hours because I like watching such things. I'm sure musicians have all kinds of hobbies that they engage in outside of their TTM window; which they'd participate in for hours - video games, spending time with family, hiking, watching music theory YouTube videos, or maybe about plugins. I'm not gonna put all of that in one basket and go - how are these affecting my TTM?

 

Sure they have, and no, most musicians will not think is this affecting my TTM, they likely wouldn’t use the term, and even the idea is unimportant to musicians who don’t want to break through. However, for those wanting to break through, they had better care about “how long will it take me between launches, because it takes me a hell of a lot longer” also “I am not managing to build my audience, and definitely not the engaged audience. I don’t know what I am doing wrong” and many, many other questions besides. Either they have an aim to “break through” and it actually means something or… maybe they are not that serious about attaining that goal. Add to that, I would hope such artists have team members asking these questions too, because to get that far they need teams around them. Business teams, creative teams, friends…. And typically, getting that far, artists are normally a business at that point and have taken on some trappings of a business. Everybody depends on each other. All decisions that affect the critical success of the artist should be considered.

 

I’m not saying use this plug in and this will happen, but it sure doesn’t help… and looking at the plugin overall it appeals to my inner nerd.

 

I’ve not met an artist yet, that when confronted with the amount of work they have to get through doesn’t balk at it and want to run a mile… at first. Fighting for time is a ritual. Fighting for the success of everything involved is part of the mind set. Trimming the budget is part of the mindset too.

 

Meanwhile I know a lot more bands that wanted to break through that didn’t. I’ve known bands blow advance money from labels. I’ve known many artists screw around thinking they had plenty of time, right up until they had no time and found themselves shelved.

 

You personally, might be unprepared to put it all in one basket and ask yourself “how are these affecting my TTM?”, but then, maybe you don’t want to break through? In which case it is immaterial. The problem begins when artists want that big dream, but can’t or won’t do what is needed. There are plenty artists who like the sound of it, but are totally unprepared for reality.

 

From my experience, artists only look over their shoulder at the smaller elements when they are expected to give up bigger picture things. It’s not someone sitting saying, “Mahesh, you can’t use that plug in” It’s looking at available recording time and musician availability and saying “to do these hours means 18 hour working days”. That demand on time causes us to look at how we spend what we have. It works the other way around “We have $800 left for studio time and session musician hire, we need to be better at working within our budget”. You get what I mean.

 

btw you are right, musicians have all kind of hobbies. As to people in all jobs. Still people have to consider if they can afford that set of golf clubs, or if they really want to be a pro level golfer, maybe they have to give up smoking cause it costs too much, or going clubbing because it leaves them with a hang over and unfit for going running. Musicians rarely breakthrough alone, unless they are exceptionally driven as well as knowledgable and skilled. Usually it takes managers, family even friends telling them not to blow it. Being fair, managers can get a bit shouty at this point! “No pain, no gain!”, “you can’t get ahead unless you are prepared to make sacrifices”, or as my manager was want to put it when he thought musicians weren’t taking it serious enough “Shit or get off the pot, there’s a whole line of people just waiting for the chance”.

 

The lack of managed artists doesn’t change the reality of the needs of the situation. It just means more artists not “doing what is needed”. To be clear that is not necessarily using this plug in, but having worked in studios and been in bands, and having been managed and being aware of the kind of commitment to themselves and their own dreams such artists have, it is about being prepared to look at where you lose time and being prepared to cut things out or at least defer them until an artist has time.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mahesh said:

I might have an expectation or timeline for myself. But if I start calculating math for every second I spend outside of my creative process, I might as well add more time to my creative process thereby doing exactly what you think artists shouldn't do. Lol

 

I don’t think it needs to be accounting for every day, never mind every second, but I get it you are  dismissing the idea. The idea is that if an artist wants that dream, then they will maximise their time. They really don’t get many serious bites at the cherry.

 

Out of interest, it is exactly the experience of having people who know sitting down and helping get artists match fit that has managers and experienced teams adding to the artists experience precisely so they don’t waste a lot of time.

 

Actually, I think it is often confronting the realities of the sacrifices involved that eventually sees many a hopeful change their career direction.

[Mahesh]

I read the response John but I still disagree with the way you are putting these things across while I do agree with the logic of the points you're making. I know of many mixing and mastering legends who still use one knob plugins that are a decade old even to this day because they think it just works right. (RComp by Waves is one such example) As for back compatibility, thank God for the VST and AU standards still holding strong within the digital music industry. They don't use one knob plugins for everything ofc. But if say, a saturation plugin gives a good sound right off the bat when you slap it on, it just works. There's nothing more to it. Whether the plugin maker made a two hour video or none about how the plugin was made, the plugin works the way it does and there's nothing more to it. I also think you CAN recreate an old mix with these plugins or others if you know what you should be listening to. I disagree that his long rambling videos impedes my creative process in anyway. Like I said, a reverb is a reverb regardless of its GUI or interface. The use cases of these plugins as I've described in the earlier posts doesn't in anyway impede my process because if it did, I'd be using a different plugin for it which serves that purpose. In fact, it's not even about these plugins and my point applies to ANY plugin in general - simple GUI or not, long rambling videos or not.

 

 

Although I don't have time to go deeper into it just this moment because of the fact that I've to rehearse, prepare and head to soundcheck for the gig later in the evening. I will get to it when I can maybe in a different topic because I think this has strayed away from the usefulness of plugins to a schematic outcome of a grand plan of things. (which is a legitimate thing to discuss!)

 

 

[Mahesh]

I'm almost tempted to pick some plugins out of the hundreds of Airwindows plugins in random and challenge myself to record a record with a timeline in mind and all things considered from my label and coworkers lol might be a good mixing challenge to put for myself along with a test to see if my understanding of these things hold as well as my confidence of it.

[Mahesh]

57 minutes ago, john said:

The idea is that if an artist wants that dream, then they will maximise their time.

Definitely not dismissing this. In fact I agree with you wholeheartedly. I am dismissing how this idea relates to what you do outside of your creative process and time based expectations.

[john]

2 hours ago, Mahesh said:

I'm almost tempted to pick some plugins out of the hundreds of Airwindows plugins in random and challenge myself to record a record with a timeline in mind and all things considered from my label and coworkers lol might be a good mixing challenge to put for myself along with a test to see if my understanding of these things hold as well as my confidence of it.

 

Interesting as an exercise if done alongside mixing the same songs with quick plugins for comparison. Perhaps alternating order in the hope of minimising bias of being the second time through the mix.  In the spirit of our aim of improving what we do, exercises like this are about being informed and saving time, tears, money, stress etc. it would be informative. 

 

You have of course already spent time learning about specific plug ins which unfortunately skews the experiment. Still, largely excluding the time angle, it would be really interesting to compare 3 mixes based on the results alone:

 

Using these plugins

Using “fancy” plugins (with presets only)

Using “fancy” plugins

[john]

16 hours ago, Mahesh said:

I am dismissing how this idea relates to what you do outside of your creative process and time based expectations.

 

Can you explain further? I guess it depends how you look at time. For example, if you come from a mind set that 8 hours are available on work days, to a total of 32 hours a week, and that is it. Or 40 hours. Or they operate on the idea that Saturdays and Sundays are sacrosanct. Sometimes if overtime is available and money is needed that might temporarily change. Certainly I know employees with that mindset.

 

In my experience it is much, much less common with employers, business owners and entrepreneurs. It’s not all, by any means, but there is more of a “the buck stops here” attitude and doing what is needed for the business to work, understandable. It is their business after all. Even then, I suppose that different people put in different red lines.

 

In the UK there are also big generational differences in their attitude to work. It was live to work, not work to live. What we did when young was work as hard as we could as a down payment on your future. So for example, I had colleagues who worked the minimum necessary what they were paid and no more. I, and I was not alone in this, did what was needed. Effectively, it was a down payment on getting a promotion.

 

Working on my own projects, work now meant faster progress towards profitability.

 

Once you get to where you need to, then there is an understanding that income will be sufficient to hire more people so that you can work less. Specifically, you can hire a manager to allow you to step back on the day to day management. That’s the idea.

 

We see many differing attitudes to life and money here. When I was young you aimed to be out of your parents home as soon as possible. Many of my friends were renting their own home 16 - 18, almost all by age 20. Younger people can still be at their parents home in their mid 30s now! When we got married it was a limited celebration and we saved as much to go towards our new home. We had a local honeymoon. Young people now have lavish weddings, with a stag week abroad (we had a stag night in a pub lol) and hen week (Karen didn’t have one), they sometimes get married abroad too, then go on extravagant honeymoons for a month! Eek!

 

It’s very much about enjoy it now, that is a massive attitude change. Maybe this is the reason for the difference in our attitude Mahesh? While you may be neither of these attitudes, there is a difference in attitudes here that sees us looking at this in very different ways?

 

Cheers

 

John

 

[Edit: For clarity, the attitudes of “I am talking of sacrifice now for a longer-term dream”, versus “enjoy it now, when you are you enough to really enjoy it,  and because you may never live long enough to reach your dream”. Truth is probably a balance is best?]

[VoiceEx]

8 hours ago, Mahesh said:

There seems to be an assumption that in order to learn a plugin, you'll have to sit thru videos for hours.

If that were truly the case, than how many among us would still be making music? Not as many, I would imagine! 😅👍

[MisterB]

Wow this thread really went off topic.

 

Bringing it back... I can't explain the need for a GUI, but I have worked exclusively with plugins that had no GUI, and I found it exhausting.  I think the horizontal sliders for everything, no differentiation in functions, and each slider having its own scale as a combination of issues, are contributors. When you have a dedicated knob (typically) with its own scale that shows values of more than just a minimum and maximum, its easier to get in the ballpark with it.

 

I must admit, I used to have the same kind of problem trying to program effects in the early 2000's with digital reverbs that had lots of parameters but no GUI to go with them. GUI's of effects (whether physical or virtual), can be really quirky, but I think typically give you a better connection to their function. 

 

 

[john]

2 hours ago, MisterB said:

Wow this thread really went off topic.

 

Entirely my fault.

 

I agree entirely about those old interfaces. It becomes a barrier to entry, which can be a real pity considering what the plugins and those old units are capable of.

 

 

[GregB]

John and Mahesh ... how long have you two been married?  🤣

 

I applaud you both for the parry and thrust of a debate without rancour ...
but also without ever conceding your opinions!  

 

Sometimes it is so hard to convey one's own (and,  in reverse, appreciate another's) gut feel and and mindset ... words on the page are not always able to illuminate the impenetrable forest of the mind.

 

But I've enjoyed reading!

 

Greg