Copyright Issues

[Gordon Dying of Gor the nod]

Hi

I am quite serious about this question.

Who owns the copyright of a song sung by a football crowd?

I am talking about original lyrics with a traditional tune.

Like for example; Pink floyd included a recording of Liverpool fans singing you'll never walk alone on their Meddle album. Did they need permission from Liverpool FC, the fans, Or Jerry and the Pacemakers?

If I used a recording of Chelsea fans singing the same tune, but the words "You'll never get a job".

Who's permission would I need?

[Lazz]

Interesting question.

But just what you imagine Gerry and the Pacemakers might have to do with it, I have no idea.

"You'll Never Walk Alone" is a Rodgers and Hammerstein song from the 1945 show 'Carousel'.

It's their copyright you would have to pay for.

So you'd need their permission first.

Whether they would agree to you changing the lyric is another interesting question.

(I would guess not.)

What you would do about the Chelsea fans' copyright in their own performance of it is yet another question.

I suggest you ask Pink Floyd or Liverpool FC how they dealt with these issues.

I would be interested in hearing the answers you get

Edited August 11, 2006 by Lazz

[john]

Hey

An interesting one. I seem to remember reading an article that covered Floyd getting permission. The subject was the making of the album and that was one of the issues covered.

That aside my guess is very similar to Lazz.

You would need to pay for copyright from R & H.

For the performance rights you would maybe be best to contact PRS (or similar).

On the lyric change, I would also guess no would be the answer, but nothing ventured nothing gained.

Cheers

John

[Alistair]

"You'll Never Walk Alone" is a Rodgers and Hammerstein song from the 1945 show 'Carousel'.

It's their copyright you would have to pay for.

Isn't there some 50 year rule in play here which makes the copyright expired? Are am I barking up the wrong tree?

[Gordon Dying of Gor the nod]

Thanks for your help and interesting suggestions

The actual tune I am using is from the song

Ta ra ra boom de ay

My knickers flew away... etc

The words are "Jose Mourinio, Jose Mourinio, Jose Mourinio...."

Sung by the chelsea crowd.

I don't know what the real song is called or how old it is??

Interesting point about the fifty year rule - is this true and is it global?

[Alistair]

Sorry, I shouldn't have raised your hopes. I checked this and UK copyright lasts for 70 years after the author's death so wouldn't help you in this case.

[Lazz]

That "Ta ra ra boom de ay, My knickers flew away... etc" tune is from some old opera.

'La Traviatta', I think.

Whatever... the geezer is well dead and in excess of the 70 year rule referenced by Alistair.

So it's in the public domain and you can use it free of charge.

These copyright rules are pretty much global, Gordon, in that they are part and parcel of the WTO agreements so all signatory states subscribe to the Berne Convention apart from the pesky 'moral rights' bit that we europeans treasure but which north americans largely abhor.

'Mourinho' only has three syllables, by the way, not four - 'though I'm sure Chelsea supporters don't care about such things. Equally, I'm pretty certain that none of them would have the wherewithal to convince a court that they were the original authors of the lyric. But the only time problems are likely to occur would be if you had a huge hit with it and the supporters' club wanted to argue a taste. But by then you'd be too rich to worry. So go for it.

To digress.... Was anyone else entertained by the speed with which Man U supporters re-christened the Dutch, Kinshasa-born, mid-fielder Kizito (Kiki) Musampa?

His new name is Kris.

Kris Musampa.

Brilliant.

Edited August 14, 2006 by Lazz

[Steve]

I'm hoping for one of those this year!

[Alistair]

Ah, football chants. Where would we be without them? I remember those heady days on the terraces

"'Ere we go, 'ere we go, ere we go"

and

"You're gonna get yer f*ckin heads kicked in!"

and, to the tune of Tom Hark.

"Pompey sing, I don't know why, cuase after the match, you're going to die!" which was true, but a very, very long time after the match for most of them.

Then there was, to the tune of Hark The Herald Angels Sing (or, in reality, a very poor approximation of said tune)

"[insert name of opponents here e.g] United sing, I don't know why, cos after the match, you're gonna die" They weren't, of course.

My favourite was probably 'You'll never walk again'. All bluster of course.

Ah, they just don't sing em like that anymore

[Lazz]

"'Ere we go, 'ere we go, ere we go"

Remember the old royal polo supporters' chant ?

"Here one goes, here one goes, here one goes..."

Edited August 15, 2006 by Lazz

[john]

And the catchy "Direct me the way to my abode, I'm tired and desirest to repose..."

[Alistair]

And the catchy "Direct me the way to my abode, I'm tired and desirest to repose..."

Eh?

[Steve]

Eh?

Show me the way to go home! I'm tired and I want to go to bed...

[Alistair]

Oh

[john]

Get with the program Alistair!

[Alistair]

Get with the program Alistair!

Yes Master!