4 Track

[Donna]

Yoo hoo, John!

You gave a great map for last time I asked this sort of thing...now I am wondering what you think would be best: for simple bass/drums/guitar/voice song, or variation of that theme.

I was thinking: drums on 2 tracks stereo, record bass next and mix those 3 tracks onto two. Then go on from there. Whaddaya think? I'm looking for general principles.

Thanks~

-D-

[Didier]

Yoo hoo, John!

You gave a great map for last time I asked this sort of thing...now I am wondering what you think would be best: for simple bass/drums/guitar/voice song, or variation of that theme.

I was thinking: drums on 2 tracks stereo, record bass next and mix those 3 tracks onto two. Then go on from there. Whaddaya think? I'm looking for general principles.

I am not John, but I used a slightly different method in the 4 track days.

Record 4 tracks, and mix to two on a different machine/recorder (it could be your PC).

Copy back those 2 tracks to the 4 tracks on a different cassette.

You can now add 2 additional tracks. That gives you a total of 6 tracks. Contrary to the bounce on the same machine, what I like in this approach is that it is non destructive: you can always get back to the original takes if later you're not satisfied with your mix.

For a simple song, tracks layout could be:

First mix

1-2 Drums

3 Bass

4 Base guitar

Second mix

1-2 Stereo tracks

3 Main guitar (in the sense of "most heard"). If it doesn't play on all parts, add Second voice on that same track. But be careful with punch ins/outs!

4 Main voice. It there's no voice in some parts, use it for Guitar solos, for instance. Same remarks as above concerning punch ins/outs.

In some case, you can thus get a total 6 + 2 tracks (using “holes” in tracks 3 and 4) = 8 tracks.

Didier

[Steve]

If you record the drums on two tracks, and the bass on a third, that only leaves one to bounce to. In which case, you'll have a mono drum and bass track. The only way to keep the stereo drums is to record the bass and drums at the same time! The only way around this is to record the drums in stereo, then take them out to a standard stereo cassette recorder and play them back in, whilst playing the bass along to the drums. That way you only use the two tracks. With the vocals and guitar. I would suggest singing the main vocal with the main guitar and that would leave one track for secondary vocal which you could also play along to with another guitar!

I think you need to get digital. A simple cheap app on your computer would give you much more scope for audio recording. Just imagine if you had 6 audio tracks! How much easier would that make your life? What's your computer setup?

[Guest voclizr]

Donna;

It's been soooooo long since I recorded 4 track analogue, but I can remember a bit of how I did it. I had a stereo drum machine, but chose to mono my drum tracks because the only way to stereoize them would've been to bounce them repeatedly, thus building up a great deal of tape hiss, so I just bounced them once to a mono track. Less fancy but much cleaner.

I don't know if your Tascam can do this, but I would bet, since it's a far better unit than my Fostex that you probably can. That is if I recorded tracks on 1,2 & 3 and set them up to bounce to 4, I could also record a LIVE source to 4 as I was bouncing the other 3 tracks to it, making a total of 4 sources combined, then I could do that with the remaining tracks to get a total of about 10 sources. I ALWAYS tracked the bass and lead vocal on their own tracks, so they were naturally recorded last.

Another thing I always found helpful recording with analogue was to double track guitar and pan them far left anf right for a fuller and cleaner sound.

Hope I've managed to be of assistance.

John B.

[Donna]

I am not John, but I used a slightly different method in the 4 track days.

Record 4 tracks, and mix to two on a different machine/recorder (it could be your PC).

Copy back those 2 tracks to the 4 tracks on a different cassette.

You can now add 2 additional tracks. That gives you a total of 6 tracks. Contrary to the bounce on the same machine, what I like in this approach is that it is non destructive: you can always get back to the original takes if later you're not satisfied with your mix.

For a simple song, tracks layout could be:

First mix

1-2 Drums

3 Bass

4 Base guitar

Second mix

1-2 Stereo tracks

3 Main guitar (in the sense of "most heard"). If it doesn't play on all parts, add Second voice on that same track. But be careful with punch ins/outs!

4 Main voice. It there's no voice in some parts, use it for Guitar solos, for instance. Same remarks as above concerning punch ins/outs.

In some case, you can thus get a total 6 + 2 tracks (using “holes” in tracks 3 and 4) = 8 tracks.

Didier

Hey big guy, what's happening in your musical world?

Yeah...Finn mentioned this before, and someone else, I believe. I did not understand how to do it, tho, playing the mixed regular cassette back into the four track. Even tho it was explained to me, I don't understand. I like the way you're thinking, tho, with those holes.

The only rememdy for me learning this, is to really sit down and figure it out.

[Donna]

If you record the drums on two tracks, and the bass on a third, that only leaves one to bounce to. In which case, you'll have a mono drum and bass track. The only way to keep the stereo drums is to record the bass and drums at the same time! The only way around this is to record the drums in stereo, then take them out to a standard stereo cassette recorder and play them back in, whilst playing the bass along to the drums. That way you only use the two tracks. With the vocals and guitar. I would suggest singing the main vocal with the main guitar and that would leave one track for secondary vocal which you could also play along to with another guitar!

I think you need to get digital. A simple cheap app on your computer would give you much more scope for audio recording. Just imagine if you had 6 audio tracks! How much easier would that make your life? What's your computer setup?

Steve, fortunately I can add a live source while remixing (which I wasn't thinking about til JB said he could do that on his Fostex). Wouldn't that do it? Hmm, maybe not, I'm trying to recall what I did on the 8 parter (never say die!) - o well, it's all in my mixing records. Altho...I have before done straight drums, bass, guitar, voice, one for each track and it satisfied me. Or do a sequenced bass along with live drums. Hmmm, if wonder if Sugar from yesteryore would dust off his 5 string Rick for me? He'd nail it, and would MAKE me be perfectly in time! Oh the fisticuffs we could have!

Yeah, I agree, do the vocal w/ guitar...and the second guitar w/ another vox. There's just no way outta singing/playing for me, is there . Besides going digital!

I beg your pardon, I'm trying not to complain too much about 4 tracking, because digital would shut me up as far as track numbers go. Digital (still) seems insurrmountable right now, to afford it and learn it. My computer set up: it's Husband's, that's not a present option.

.....................................................

JB,

It ain't been that long - kudos for the primers/reminders.

[Didier]

Hey big guy, what's happening in your musical world?

Not much.

Yeah...Finn mentioned this before, and someone else, I believe. I did not understand how to do it, tho, playing the mixed regular cassette back into the four track. Even tho it was explained to me, I don't understand.

Don't try to think something complicated. Think simple, and it will become obvious to you.

You have two recorders: the 4-track, and what you use to do your final mix (let's assume a stereo cassette deck).

You have *3* cassettes (to make it simple): A, B and C

1) You record your first 4 tracks on cassette A in the 4-track.

2) You do your mix as usual on stereo deck on cassette B.

3) You put cassette C in the 4-track.

4) You connect the stereo out of the stereo deck to input 1 and 2 of the 4-track

5) You put tracks 1 and 2 on record on the 4-track, and you press play on the stereo deck.

Your new 4-track cassette ("C") now contains your mix on track 1 and 2, and you have two spare tracks.

I like the way you're thinking, tho, with those holes.

It took me a while to realize how much space was "wasted" on these tracks.

The only rememdy for me learning this, is to really sit down and figure it out.

Reading what I wrote above, is it that hard?

Didier

[Donna]

Now I understand!

I just tried it in this way: rca out 2nd tape deck to rca in track 1 and 2 (on the back of the 4-track)...the signal to the 4-track is way low. But it's there!

Thank you so much...will you help me figure the rest of this out? I mean, if after I try I can't get a good enough signal?

Gotta run to work now~

woo hoO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Didier]

Now I understand!

Good.

I just tried it in this way: rca out 2nd tape deck to rca in track 1 and 2 (on the back of the 4-track)...the signal to the 4-track is way low. But it's there!

Thank you so much...will you help me figure the rest of this out? I mean, if after I try I can't get a good enough signal?

Of course.

I have no idea at the moment why the signal is too low.

But I suppose eventually we'll figure this.

Didier

[Donna]

Didier,

Re: the initial goal: Sucess!

Now I have to deal with the state of the tapedeck...possibly. I've 3 of them currently. We'll see what goes in the trash and what is salvageable. The original tape deck I've always mixed on has become an issue - just as other things were getting resolved.

Made 3, 45 sec mixes. The ---- tapedeck I used tonight began cutting out one side, so I probably won't bother trying to judge those snippets. Recent acquisition practically free. I've never had a cutting out show up on the recording tho. JVC, I very much like the line in's on front as well as in back. Anyway, that's why there are repair places if it comes to that. Or go new.

I had a great time mixing.

[Didier]

Re: the initial goal: Sucess!

Good.

You now have (minus your tapedecks issues) a 6 track

Didier

[Donna]

Beers again for you, big guy!