I'm An Idiot When It Comes To Digital!

[sombra]

Don't know if this is the right place to post, but I am trying to get some help. I am fairly new to the whole digital recording technique and was wondering if anyone can give me some insight.

I have long recorded on 4-track or had a friend who has a 98% analog studio (I say 98% because he records to 2" analogue tape, mixes down in ProTools, I believe, and then back onto the analog tape) help. Anyway, I would like to record some songs for a new singer I'm working with so that she can work on vocals and additional guitar arrangements on the days we don't get together.

So, what I want to know is can I record into my 4-track and then plug it into my computer for mixdown? I have GarageBand (which I'm still trying to figure out) installed on my Mac and I'd like to send her decent mp3s that she can work with. Also, would it be possible to run it back into my 4-track after the digital mixdown, and then once finalized on tape again back into the computer for the final? My intention is also to set up a Myspace band page with a few decent sounding tracks.

Basically, I know nothing about digital recording. I'd love to be able to keep the warmth of the analog sound, but the power to mix the song cleanly, remove hiss, etc. through the computer and then run it back through analog once cleaned up to finalize it. Would I need to run an additional mixer between the 4-track and the computer as well as the utilizing the software mixer?

To give anyone out there some idea I record into a Tascam MFP01 using mics to the amps - so, yeah, pretty old school. My setup is Guitar > effects (fuzz, fuzz, reverb, delay - all analog) > split mono to Fender '59 Bassman LTD (so, basically, it's a no frills amp without any effects loop, line out, etc.) and an Ampeg SJ-12T (again, no frills, no effects loop, no line outs). My sound is My Bloody Valentine-ish, Dinosaur Jr.-ish, BailterSpace raw and I'm not into super technical arrangement though I must admit that long ago I was a metal head solo shredder who had to play every note dead on! Now I just like the sound of raw, swirly, and unbridled indie pop music and the mistakes that go with playing! I guess you gotta let go sometimes, like letting a kid be a kid.

Thanks for taking a look and I look forward to any help!

[Steve]

It seems like a pretty convoluted way to go about things! If you have garageband, why not just record straight to the computer? The only piece of kit you would really need would be a small mixer. Maybe something like this. Plug your mic into this, then into the computer and open up garageband! You should be able to record a lot more than 4 tracks, depending on the spec! There may be a slight learning curve, but it's well worth it. As far as 'analogue warmth' goes, I think that's just a euphomism for tape hiss!

If you really want to record back into the 4 track, you can mix your tracks down to whatever you want, still keeping stereo seperation, and superior quality! If you already have the means, I'd say go for it and make the change! You'll be amazed at the difference in quality!

[Nightwolf]

Steve is right!! All of the transferring back and forth is going to rob you of sound quality, there are digital effects that can achieve that kind of sound deterioration with a simple setting and save time

I’m kidding of course…..kind of…. Everyone new to the digital world has the same fear that they are giving up something. They eventually abandon analog, but usually kicking and screaming.

I’m not sure if I am reading your post right, are you talking about mixing down as in combining tracks after you mix in the computer? I hate to tell you but in my humble opinion, your four track is unneeded and obsolete. There is no reason for your tracks to be mixed down or ever leave the inside of your pc unless you have extraordinary outboard effects. You can use the Tascam is an input device to your pc like Steve mentioned.

Are you asking about mic placement? I’ll see what I can find, I think there is an article here (if there isn’t there should be) although john will probably beat me to it.

[Nightwolf]

glitch

[sombra]

Thank you, gentlemen!

Here's the basic idea. I want to record what I'm playing as if I was playing live. I have no desire to add digital effects after the fact. I want to capture all the analog, tube tape like, live sounding glory in its true form. I want to run my live sound into the computer and maybe mix each individual track to, well, clean it up, reduce noise, add compression, add gated reverb on drum snares, etc. That's really what I meant by mixing down so sorry about the confusion. Then I want to make mp3s.

Also, I'm not so much an analog snob as much as I don't really know how to use digital means. And the reason I still track it on the old 4-track is because I'm not typically using more than 4 tracks anyway - well, maybe 8 would be nice! I typically do one or two guitar tracks, a vocal track (and very, very rarely, two), a bass track, and a drum track - voila!, 4 tracks (maybe 5) and done. Though it is funny that I see a lot of people freaking out about the analog/digital debate especially eschewing analog because it is supposedly outdated, inferior sounding, etc. However, Steve Albini still chooses to record all analog, has recorded some really great and influential artists, and indie bands kill to work with him - maybe for the indie cred! A band I love, Flying Saucer Attack, pretty much did all their recordings on a 4-track and was able to sell lots of CDs around the world back in the early to late 90s so I'd say 4-tracks aren't totally useless. Just a little aside, I guess!

Back to topic, if you guys think I can just run my existing mic'ed up 4-track into the computer, or run direct with my mic into the computer then that works for me!

As far as mic placement I just place it about 2 to 3 inches from the center of the cone(s) and usually get a pretty decent sound in the room I'm using so I'm fine there.

Thanks again!

[Steve]

I still say go straight to the computer. You'll record exactly the same as you would into the 4 track but without the hiss. You will be recording what you play! If you don't want to add any effects, don't! You wont need to 'clean it up' because you've cut out the only thing that would make it dirty in the first place! Plus, When you record drums to one track, mono drums. Record them into a computer, and technically, you could have each drum and cymbal on a seperate track, giving you easy access to add reverb to the snare! If you record your drums to one track on the tape, and then transfer to the computer, you can only add an effect (reverb) to the whole kit! I'm not saying there's anything wrong with 4 track tape recorders, but if you have all the equipment to go digital, I can't see any good reason not to! The Beatles also recorded to 4 track, but I can't see Macca going back to those days now!

Why not try an experiment?

Plug everything in to the 4 track ready to record, then plug the outputs of the 4 track into the computer and record at the same time! Have a listen to the difference, see what you can do with the digital take that you can't do with the analogue take. The beauty of digital is, you can save your original take somewhere first, and mess about with effects etc till you hearts content! If you really screw it up, you always have the original take!

[Nightwolf]

However, Steve Albini still chooses to record all analog, has recorded some really great and influential artists, and indie bands kill to work with him - maybe for the indie cred! A band I love, Flying Saucer Attack, pretty much did all their recordings on a 4-track and was able to sell lots of CDs around the world back in the early to late 90s so I'd say 4-tracks aren't totally useless. Just a little aside, I guess!

Just imagine what they will be able to accomplish once they step into the digital world

[disclaimer] not trying to start a fight [/disclaimer]

[sombra]

Wow! I just figured out how to use this computer and line in thing from the 4-track. It only took me about 30 minutes and I am loving it! I'm adding all sorts of Middle East strings and percussion and stuff that's totally giving my music the "My Bloody Valentine" vibe I've always been looking for before computers made all this stuff possible and affordable. I don't know how I did without it! And like I said, I'm not anti-digital - I mean, Kevin Shields used the digital studio to create all the swirled out sounds and beautiful tracking on MBV records - I just didn't know how to use it in the past. I guess I'm just lazy when it comes to being technical. I just want to plug in and play and not worry about all the other stuff. I guess I would've eventually figured this stuff out, but having you all confirm that I wasn't going to blow anything up was what I needed to hear. Thanks!

Now I'm hooked like it's crack! I've been wanting to do drum'n'bass and trip hop tracks too and now I've got the means. Woo hoo!

As for Steve Albini and the digital world, that'll never happen! He's pretty anti-digital. You can check out his studio equipment on his website - it's pretty nice! Check out: Electrical Audio to see a list of Steve's stuff and all the people he's worked with.

Again, thanks to all who responded! It was well worth the advice and much appreciated.

[Steve]

Hey Sombra! Don't disappear ok? We wanna hear some of your tracks. Old and new, analogue and digital. Post something up for us y'hear!

[sombra]

I'll definitely stick around! This seems like such a great resource and, hopefully, a good community.

The tracks are a bit rough right now, but once I start polishing up on the whole GarageBand recording technique I will post to this site as well as a future myspace band site. Thanks guys!