Setting up a mix...

[john]

Hi

having seen a few tracks criticised for the mix I thought a thread about setting up a mix would be useful. So what do you do? How do you prepare?  Do you have standard way to approach a mix?

Cheers

John

[Steve]

errr... Being the BB God, we're all looking to you for guidance on this John. So... Over to you.  

[john]

Steve

Come on, don't be shy. You know as well as I do that there are more ways to put a track together than there are to please a woman.

So for all the in-experienced mixers, share your 'pleasing' techniques! I'm sure you get enough of my opinions and advice without me adding more!

Cheers

John

[TheOne]

Hi

Basically I start by sorting out the groups. Drums being an obvious one. The mix can then be manipulated using the groups.

TheOne

[Rudi]

Groups ? How does one define a group in a mixing context ?

Ru???di

[Steve]

Come on, don't be shy. You know as well as I do that there are more ways to put a track together than there are to please a woman.

Listen mate! Im on my third wife.. What do I know about pleasing women?   :  

[Rudi]

Well I know just as many ways of creating tracks as I do pleasing women.

So stop stalling you coy sensitive artistes, spill it! (women or tracks, Im not fussy)

[john]

Hi

Depending on your mixer, software or hardware, they can provide 'group' tracks. You can assign individual channels to a group, and manipulate the group from there. For example, for a drum mix, you can assign the drums to groups 1 and 2, as a stereo pair. Set up the pan, eq, and relative volumes using the individual mixer channels (channel strips). As the channels are all assigned to group 1/2, the group fader can now be used to fade up/down the entire kit, or send through an aux to a global reverb etc.

So the kit balance between the individual drums and cymbals is achieved with the individual channels, the overall level of the drums in the mix is controlled with the group faders.

tadaa!

Cheers

John

[Steve]

Thats an interesting snippit! I think though that some of us (UpMetal Crew) are a bit far behind in the gear stakes. And therefore on a different playing field to some of you lot up there in the stadium. Not that thats an excuse, I think we probably all have the means to produce something half decent. As a guitar player (formerly know as 'Who's that dickead on the end) I would love to have somebody else do my mixing. I just dont hear half of whats I should, and therefore tend to chuck it out as it is! The only real instrument I have is my guitar, everything else comes out of my soundcards as midi. Although I am trying to make an effort with soft synths, it is a bit like learning a foriegn language .... And I was crap at that at school as well! ( Im still trying to learn English)    

[Rudi]

For example, for a drum mix, you can assign the drums to groups 1 and 2, as a stereo pair.

Ah thanks John! Sorry so late in getting back here. I would offer an excuse but I cant think of any at the mo.

Rudi

[Steve]

OK

Having been critisised for my mix's I want some serious answers here!

I have a Yamaha sw1000xg card, and I use the midi sounds on this card. I have tried softsynth stuff but it all sounds a bit crap frankly! ( I cant afford expensive kit )

The question is... Should I convert my midi to audio? and tweak it?

Or is it OK to use the midi until it's time to output as a wav file...

steve

[john]

Hi Steve

It comes to the 'why' you are converting a track to audio. Is it free up midi channels, or midi bandwidth to solve a midi timing issue, or is it to apply an audio effect that you can't do in the midi domain?

I would recommend learning how to do things, and staying flexible. Some effects or treatments can only easily be done on wave forms, but as soon as you create the wave you might discover you want to change a note or note volume, so only do this late on in the process when the track is pretty settled, or if you intend building the tracks on processed loops, like Moby, you would do it earlier.

If you are happy with your mix you could convert the midi tracks to audio and add another phase to your production. This would allow you to add treatments you can only do on audio, like EQ or compression, or even phase...then mix the audio tracks.

Try experimenting with the process to find a way to achieve something you are happy with. Don't make hard and fast rules, that way your engineering and production, and post production can provide another opportunity to bring your creativity to the track.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

John

[john]

Steve

Did these suggestions help at all?

Cheers

John

[Steve]

Yes... And No...

My latest track (which is taking an age to record) is shaping up quite nicely. I am taking much more time to listen to what Im recording, something I have neglected to do in the past. My usual tack is write it, record it, upload it. Usualy in the shortest time possible! I once did three songs in the space of about 8 days. I have had to force myself to listen to what I've recorded, then listen again the next day just to make sure what I thought it sounded like, really does sound like it should! I think one of my major problems is I dont have any monitors! Just headphones. and I tend to sit for hours at the computer.

Ah well! you live and learn (Or is that live and die?)

[Till]

Hi John,

All depends on what kind of music you have recorded.

Acoustic or or or?

With or without percusion/drums, with or without strings, etc. but basicly you start with the "bottom" of your recording and get that in there as "warm" as possible....

What are/is your basic instrument etc.etc.

What kind of equipment do you use when recording?

Etc.etc.....(smile) that's why there are courses to learn all this....perhaps you have  some more info on what you would like to mix?

(no - sorry - I am not good at cocktails,guys!)

till

[john]

Hey Till

Firstly, welcome to the Songstuff boards!

The point of the topic was not to discuss my mixes (which I think are pretty good ), but to promote discussion on mixing, as several of the Music reviews had criticised the mix used.

You do make some good points though. Setting up a mix does vary greatly. A lot of folks can (arguably) not afford the money or time to attend courses on how to mix. A little advice can go a long way though

Cheers

John

[Till]

Thanks for the warm welkom (it's cold up here in The Netherlands - i can tell you!! )

Point noted - any way i can listen to what you have recorded? Do you have a site with MP3's?

Till

[john]

Hi Till

Sure, some older tracks, though Natural Healing is a recent mix:

http://www.ic-musicmedia.com/bibim

or

http://www.songstuff.com/artists.php?selected=2

The links on the songstuff page haven't all been added yet....oops.

Cheers

John

[tgrover]

Hi

having seen a few tracks criticised for the mix I thought a thread about setting up a mix would be useful. So what do you do? How do you prepare?  Do you have standard way to approach a mix?

Cheers

John

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi John...... the most important part is getting the signal correct at the start. If you get good hot signals things are a lot easier to approach when mixing. When we are mixing a full song with drums etc.... we start mixing the drums. then get good seperation between the bass guitar and kick drum. Then play with the guitars. Then go for the vocals. Building up tends to give you a good platform to work with then you have the abilitly to tweak with eq each instrument and get panning etc once you have a fuller mix to work with.... thats how we do it anyway..

[Steve]

Hi John...... the most important part is getting the signal correct at the start. If you get good hot signals things are a lot easier to approach when mixing. When we are mixing a full song with drums etc.... we start mixing the drums. then get good seperation between the bass guitar and kick drum. Then play with the guitars. Then go for the vocals. Building up tends to give you a good platform to work with then you have the abilitly to tweak with eq each instrument and get panning etc once you have a fuller mix to work with.... thats how we do it anyway..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What gear are you guys using? Or are you using a studio?