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Cakewalk Announces Mac Version Of Sonar

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starise    373

http://www.cakewalk.com/

 

I didn't think Cakewalk would ever do this. I'm very surprised. I think this is great news! They are also offering lifetime updates now for one price...lot's of new things in the works.

 

I love the new skins and  the  recent mastering plug-ins too.

 

 

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TapperMike    370

Finally someone comes back into the apple market.  I was reading an article by a big name in the plug in industry awhile back.  He had pretty much thrown in the towel when it came to the apple market mostly due to the lack of Daws that run on Macs.

 

Ir's interesting that you state lifetime updates.  Is that part of the new subscription plan or have they abandoned that?  I was quite concerned about what might happen to cakewalk after the Gibson buyout.

 

 

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starise    373

Cakewalk has been saying for years that they intend to concentrate on PC. There has been some back and forth over on their forum over the last year or two from time to time from Mac users who wanted to use Sonar but were mac centric. They must have finally listened. I think the first version to roll out is free with subsequent versions likely to be paid. Based on past comments I find it surprising that they went to mac as another platform. Some of that was likely competition since there are quite a few daws that are cross platform, Studio One being one of those. No longer will the competition be able to say that they hold an upper hand on mac. The best news is that one of the most progressive and capable DAS programs you can buy will be another option for mac users.

 

I have mixed feelings about the Cakewalk updates, mainly because the updates won't necessarily figure in new cool additional developments such as a future software synths. I understand that development takes time people and money. This won't exclude new features and enhancements though. The window for entry is August and then as I understand it updates go back to monthly or yearly paid plans.

 

I really feel for anyone trying to get into Sonar Platinum on a budget. The price of entry is around the 599 mark which is high for a home studio hobbyist I think. Having said that, if a person can cough up that much to get into it, the rest is always much much less painful. In my case, since I am vested as a Platinum user my cost for lifetime updates is between 99 and 199 dollars depending on when I bought and what deal I bought last year. Lifetime is a long time and a good bargain IMHO.

 

But a new user- I would say before you drop over 500 quid, download a demo and give it an honest try. I think you'll like it.

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TapperMike    370

Pride of ownership.

 

Some ppl justify the cost based on allure rather then functionality.   Many years back I was cooking at Denny's third shift (11pm - 7am)  The weekends were crazy but the week days were tame.  I'd come in early before my shift, talk to the regulars and if there was downtime during the night I'd also come out to the floor and talk to the regulars who were usually late bird college students.  One of them Evan was studying Audio Engineering at a local community college.  He was fascinated with everything regarding music and music production though he wasn't a musician per say.  Anyway the school required macs and they taught using Garage Band and Logic.  At first he was enamored by GB but that began to change quickly as it was his first DAW and it was free (well not really but that's another story)   I'd bring in my laptop and show him things from time to time using Samplitude and Cakewalk.  He was amazed at what he didn't know about file formats, the differences in compression methods, dithering and the like...because GB took that all away from him.  Eventually he went up to PT because his parents could afford it, but not without running with logic for a time. As well once he got into more advanced classes he'd need to work in PT.  Pro Tools incentivized  major recording schools with deep educational network discounts, The same way apple and adobe have with schools.  The schools then brag that all the big studios use PT so it's important to use PT.  The guys in the local studios also used PT because they had to show they were as up to the task as the big players.  Though they would often refer to PT as Slow Tools due to the 1x1 writing process of burning to cda format.  

 

Is cakewalk that prestigious?  Is it worth paying that much money for the prestige to switch? 

Are the long term benefits worth the price?  I liked Sonar when I had it but I didn't love it and it didn't garner me any more or less ROI.  The subscription model and the free upgrades for life is a very good incentive on the surface.  I'm beside myself on what constitutes ownership and rental/lease.  On the one hand I like owning what I own. No one is going to come in and take my guitars away that I've fully paid for and have enjoyed for years or even decades.  On the other hand my last car costed me more for initial costs and repair costs then what I'd pay for a lease.  In the end I had a car I couldn't afford to fix or keep so I had to junk it.  Junking the car for $50 to pay the mechanic for his services is not a net win.  Cars aren't software.  People who bought software from my company going back to 98 can still use the same software without upgrades today. It does exactly what they need it to do and they didn't feel the need for more features.  It's also a burden on the system where I have to support this same software that we sold back in 98 with no hope of financial reward for them upgrading anytime soon.  Most companies drop support for discontinued products after awhile.  We don't It's one of those things that little software companies do to earn customer trust which is lacking in the larger markets.

 

.

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starise    373

PT is a mainstay mostly because it was one of the very first developed and it worked on a mac. Now it seems to be eternally entrenched into larger studios.Since then many other programs have caught up to and surpassed it. If a newb asks what they need the answer is usually PT if they ask at larger educational and studio locations. I know of many fellow mixers who mix groups for a living that use another DAS program. Many of those guys I know use Sonar and export the files into PT when they are done. Sonar is just an easier workflow and is more feature rich in many areas.

 

I don't really think Cakewalk is prestigious. The price is in line with some of the competition and there are a few less expensive versions to get into the game. One of the less expensive versions of sonar would likely be all most would need. 

11 hours ago, TapperMike said:

I'm beside myself on what constitutes ownership and rental/lease.

 

You can stop payment at any time on Sonar upgrades and still keep the program fair and square, you just loose on the monthy upgrades. If you were to pay yearly as opposed to monthy you would find that the cost is basically the same as much of the competition on a yearly basis..so either way you pay the same and can keep the program. The 15/20.00 dollars a month for a year are basically what my one time upgrades for life cost. For me it's a no brainer. In the next five years I will save hundreds of dollars.

 

 I can tell you good things are continually on the way and are being scrutinized very closely.

 

If you were to break down all of the additional things included in the flagship program I don't think you could buy these things seperately for the cost of the product. 

 

Here's just what came to mind. There have been many more workflow improvements and additional features.

Drum replacement

A handful of some of the best software synths you can buy

Addictive Drums 2 full version

Melodyne essential, pitch and tempo correction

Many many useful plug ins, including some great mastering tools.

In the near future there will be cpu load leveling so multi core computers can run more software syths and exf at the same time without choking.

 

The main thing here for me though is this- It will never end...Sonar is a continually moving target . They don't sit back and say they are finished with Sonar ever..A two year old copy of Sonar looks very different from a recent copy.

 

 

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TapperMike    370

Thanks for the info.

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starise    373

Update-

 

Cakewalk has announced the availability of a limited version of Sonar for Mac as a free download .You can find that here-

http://www.cakewalk.com/products/sonar-mac-prototype

 

The version they ported to mac is the home studio version which is a more basic and less feature laden version of the program compared to the flagship Platinum version

 

Cakewalk entered into a venture with Codeweavers to port the software. You can find more about that here-

http://blog.cakewalk.com/the-sonar-mac-prototype-a-collaboration-between-cakewalk-and-codeweavers/

 

What some consider to be bad news and others find a relief is that for the foreseeable future no further development will be made on the Mac platform.

 

Sonar needs a full rewrite from the ground up in order to become totally mac compatible and as it stands the company isn't moving in that direction.

 

Since there are many Sonar users who also have a mac , this alpha has come in handy for on site recordings which can then be directly loaded into a windows machine.

 

If you have a mac this is likely better than garage band in terms of features, but not as good as Logic since it's the more basic version of Sonar.

 

It is FREE to try.

 

 

 

 

 

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john    1,420

Ooooh good! I hope it is a reasonable port and there is some real commitment to delivering a fully featured product.

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starise    373

I hate to be the bearer of bad news. Cakewalk has pulled away from further Mac development for the foreseeable future. This surprised me. I thought they would keep at it.

 

As a smaller company they only have so many resources. This was an experiment to see how it would go. Apparently it was way more involved than they  thought it would be. Enough so that they changed their mind. Since I use only a PC it doesn't affect me, but I'm feeling some pain for the exclusive mac people. There are those who use boot camp and hackintoshes and apparently there is no real cpu hit using bootcamp. So those people still can use Sonar if they really wanted to.

 

A few feathers have been ruffled. There was a misunderstanding between a few Mac users and Cakewalk. It stems from the fact that they bought in when Cakewalk offered a lifetime updates plan for one price. Some Mac users were under the impression Cakewalk would eventually develop a product for Mac so they bought that plan. Now with no further development in sight they are rightly miffed.

 

If you want to read about the whole reaction of the cakewalk community you can read that here- 

 

http://forum.cakewalk.com/The-SONAR-Mac-Prototype-a-collaboration-between-Cakewalk-and-CodeWeavers-m3593807.aspx

 

From the Cakewalk perspective, they say they only said they were going to develop an alpha. No further promises were made. I think the advertising indicated otherwise. Even though it didn't specifically say that I believe it was implied and an advertising blunder. Those people should probably be refunded their money IMO.

 

Cakewalk still sell some cross platform Mac products. Synth and the like.

 

The alpha is FREE though and is a great way to move slightly up from garage band for basic audio tracking. The home studio version is the one they ported. The basic version.

 

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TapperMike    370

I think Cakewalk finally accepted the inevitable.

It takes a lot of money to enter the mac game.  And If you can't get an ROI quickly you'll find yourself out of the game quickly.  This is no place for short term planning.   

 

On the otherhand many a mac user I've encountered runs some for of dual os.  Bootcamp (preferred) Parallels VMware.  The problems with both VMware and Parallels are many however one usually has to find out the hardway.  VMware uses "masking" to create a virtual machine.  This masking causes issues with many software products that utilize the HDSN as part of the software protection system. Software protection is rarely if ever resolves around a single method.  Masking the hdsn has consequences every time you reboot where the hdsn value magically changes.  If that doesn't match a stored index then the software will no longer work.  Parallels work via a gateway.  Unfortunately it's not a direct path to registry information and there are checks and balances along the way to insure that a pathway is direct.  Ultimately they both fail.

 

Usually when someone is considering purchasing software they like to try before they buy.  As well they don't like having to buy a copy of Microsoft Windows (bootcamp) to install on their machine or are just to lazy to reboot.  When they do try a product designed for Microsoft Windows on a Mac using VMware or Bootcamp it often can and will fail.  Rather than blaming the "gateway" software such as parallels or VMware they blame the software.  It re enforces the concept that windows software is buggy and not to be trusted and sends them back to Mac only software.

 

Yes I know this well.  I was (among other things) a support technician who had to explain it time and time again to mac users. I was also on the development team that built the software protection for our product.  Companies like Cakewalk have a rough go when they try to port from a windows OS to a mac OS.  Not only in the coding because it's not like sprinking faery dust on code.  But as well in users perceptions.  If you've had a bad run trialing software before and it didn't work at all or stopped working you are less inclined to trial it again even when / if they say they've made improvements for better operability.

 

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Just1L    915
5 hours ago, starise said:

The alpha is FREE though and is a great way to move slightly up from garage band for basic audio tracking. The home studio version is the one they ported. The basic version.

 

 

I've heard comments about Cakewalk for years. I cannot wait to download this to compare to Garageband. My initial instinct would be it would be a step down. We shall see. Thanks for the tip. 

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starise    373
Mike I'm not sure what  the best analogy of this.
 
You could say "Nothing ventured, nothing gained". In this case all they seem to have gained is the realization that they shouldn't or can't really do it well enough to continue. I guess that's something. Better than betting the house on a bad idea. 
 
I don't see Apple taking this huge tumble into oblivion. They have too many followers behind them. Yet I don't see them head and shoulders above either. They are concentrating more on a small device market and throwing a bone to creative users in touting a "modular" computer in 2018.  Mac users have left the Mac. I don't think Apple is what it once was since the founder died. We may see a slow decline or more of a normalcy to their future products. Let's face it, Macs are now PC hardware with an locked Apple OS. In my opinion over priced and usually under powered compared to similar PC hardware.People on both sides swear by what they like. I'm pretty much on the PC side of things mainly because I like to build my own computers and decide my own specs and layout.
 
People get accustomed to what they like and they seldom change. If people could see past that and realize that once you launch a DAW you don't really work with the OS. You might even forget which OS it is. In that respect OS doesn't really figure in.
 
I know you have been a little deeper into the programming end of it and probably see better than I do that it was a really gargantuan task to do what they attempted to do. I was surprised that they attempted it really. Sonar might not be a good fit to Mac, however it runs like greased lightening on PC so I'm inclined to want them to continue to keep the eggs in that basket. No one knows PC like Sonar.
 
Just1L- I hope you have a good experience if you try it out. The alpha apparently doesn't accept new plug ins. Home Studio has some ok plug ins though. Those one knob plugs.
If they released it, they must have the confidence in it. I'll be interested to see how it goes. FWIW, Home Studio isn't like Platinum. It's a trimmed version but it should let you track and more importantly you could then easily collaborate with a sonar user since you have the cake files.
 
 

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Just1L    915
5 minutes ago, starise said:
I don't see Apple taking this huge tumble into oblivion. They have too many followers behind them. Yet I don't see them head and shoulders above either. They are concentrating more on a small device market and throwing a bone to creative users in touting a "modular" computer in 2018.  Mac users have left the Mac. I don't think Apple is what it once was since the founder died. We may see a slow decline or more of a normalcy to their future products. Let's face it, Macs are now PC hardware with an locked Apple OS. In my opinion over priced and usually under powered compared to similar PC hardware.People on both sides swear by what they like. I'm pretty much on the PC side of things mainly because I like to build my own computers and decide my own specs and layout.

 

I don't believe Mac users have left the Mac. Some sure, but I know a lot of designers and none of them have left the Mac. Adobe on the other hand. Since they went subscription model more and more people have left that. It's taken a while for newer software to take the place of InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop (although Photoshop has always had good competition.) When they went subscription, I purchased the newest versions they had and have been running them since. I figure to get another couple years before needing to upgrade. When we do, we will no longer be using Adobe, other than maybe Adobe Acrobat Pro unless there's an alternate I like. There are currently 2 other software providers I'm looking at. Just like Aldus Freehand, Coral Draw and Quark, Adobe too will fall. But I'd gather they'll drop the subscription service first as a last gasp effort. 

 

It's funny what's become of Mac. Windows was an obvious, but not as good, take on the Apple OS. But like you said, other than the virus' PCs are susceptible to, they're very comparable. Although I've heard a lot of bad things about Windows 10, not sure how the actual system itself is. But yes, since Jobs left, Macs been in decline. You can't just replace the vision of a genius with someone good. I do just wish he would have died BEFORE he came out with the iPhone. :)

 

I'll let you know how the Cakewalk/Garageband comparison goes. The thing for me is I've never once since I've started recording thought to myself, "I wish Garageband offered more." Every time I look for something I need, I find it.

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starise    373

I've seen almost wars over Mac/PC. I had a Mac a long time ago and I liked it. I manly left because I wanted to roll my own. For me Windows 10 has been rock solid. Never had any major problem with it. Probably the best OS Windows has come out with yet. Where they both seem to get into trouble is updates. I did have an update change my audio drivers. It was a 5 minute fix.

12 minutes ago, Just1L said:

I don't believe Mac users have left the Mac.

 

I should say SOME have left. Only basing it on these kinds of stories.

Due to lack of time I'm copying some of Craig Andertons links.

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2017/3/10/over-50-of-mac-pro-tools-users-say-they-are-ditching-their-apple

 

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/7/13548052/the-macbook-pro-lie

 

https://tidbits.com/article/16914

 

https://mjtsai.com/blog/2016/10/27/new-macbook-pros-and-the-state-of-the-mac/

 

http://mashable.com/2016/12/20/apple-neglecting-mac-team/#1kpfyJKyAaqg

 

https://ask.audio/articles/apple-making-modular-mac-pro-to-woo-back-musicians-and-pros

 

Mac won't go away. I don't think there is a right or a wrong here. Some have become upset at the direction Apple is taking.

 

On another subject it looks like Cakewalk might be getting ready to follow IK Multimedia's footsteps in supporting the small device market. I'm only going by the android on their website and a comment made that seemed to point that way. The core user group will buck this to the death. They are ok to surf and as toys. They don't see them as good studio tools. Maybe Gen Y will buy into it.

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starise    373

I have no doubt if I had been using Mac software on a Mac the only  logical choice for me would be Logic. It's 199.00 American right? That's a steal for such a powerful program with  regular free updates. You can get most of the same plug ins for it only in a mac format.

 

What runs most software developers crazy is the constant updates. Big companies like Native Instruments are most concerned with OS updates from Apple. Though Win 10 and OSX are always changing and updating. This means they need to usually update their plug ins and software to keep up to keep up with it. The rudder moves but the ship sometimes steers very slowly with everyone trying to play catch up to what the big two are doing. 

 

This is doubly troubling for dual platform programs because they basically need two teams to keep up with both platforms. One mistake and the customer base is complaining their software/hardware stopped working. This is why a company like Cakewalk who has very close ties with the windows teams can pull it off well if only on PC.

 

 

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TapperMike    370

I'm not seeing apple tumble into oblivion either.  Apple users have a blind passion.  So long as they have that then apple will always have a steady stream of income.  That doesn't make me a PC/Windows fanboi.

 

Cakewalk was the first daw I used back when I was running Windows 3.1  They have many great ideas.  Sometimes having a great idea doesn't mean customers will run to you.  One has to remember that Cakewalk for many years was run by a bank.  It had actually gone belly up but the Bank kept it alive thinking it would be marketable if the right ownership / management came along.  I've seen quite a lot of this in the private sector.  But that's a story for another day/

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starise    373

I didn't know Cakewalk was ever in trouble.

 

When I went to Boston I went by their headquarters . It was tough to track the place down, but I finally found it. It was very difficult to get parking and even somewhat dangerous because of the way the roads are there. I drove by it. It's located in a nice office building.I don't believe you can just walk in, you probably push an intercom button and state your business. Like all software companies the tools of the trade can be anywhere. They likely sub programmers from other countries. It's probably their global connections and reach that keep them healthy.

 

CW has had a few blunders. Nothing extremely major. When Roland bought them  it wasn't necessarily a bad thing. There were some unhappy people over the split when Gibson bought CW because the Roland VS-700 was a pricey audio control surface and Roland announced discontinued support. This wasn't the fault of CW. This was a Roland decision. As I understand it, the VS-700 still works with Sonar with a few work arounds. 

 

CW seldom advertise anything and don't follow through. The whole Apple/Mac problem was an exception. I'll continue to use Sonar. I bought into lifetime updates. The software shouldn't ever cost me another penny. Recently they've been coming out with some mastering class high end plug ins. Better than the ones typically provided with most other DAW's. I really don't have a reason to move. I don't own a Mac and don't really care to.

 

 

 

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