JonathonHolder

Melody is very reliant on harmony. The chords are what make it work. Chords first imo

I tell people that my current project is pop rock. But that just means that every song is somewhere around the pop and rock spectrum, really there's a lot of reggae, blues and some jazz in my set. The main thing I put into all my writing is to try and have a unique musical idea at the heart of every song.

Anyone got a link to a list of music press to send to?

I used to write a lot of songs that went iAABe or iAAABe, with B as a development of A. Basically I'd find a nice long chord progression, maybe a minute or so, that finished unresolved (i.e. usually on chord V). I'd repeat it a couple of times, but on the final repetition would take the chords somewhere else, usually ending up back on chord I. I'd then stick on a different idea for an intro to set the scene, and try and come up with a creative idea for the end. I would sometime change to another key at the end, or come up with a different riff and have an extended out-tro, or use something based on the intro. No chorus, no verse, no bridge, no middle 8. I've dumbed down a bit these days, so tend to go with the standard ABABCB half the time.

Just got a proper mix up, and also a mix with some alien sound effects. Seem like an ok mix now? Also, which do you think I should go for, the alien version or plain? I like the sound effects, but it obscures the main riff a little. I thought about adding a middle 8, but I think it works ok as a short novelty track, the kind of track they ply on the radio when they've got 2 minutes before the news.

Man, that's some really good insights, that's an unmixed version though. Would be great if you could take another look when I've got a mixed version up, should be by Thursday but I'll let you know. I'm def going to watch out for those things. I think the compression was from a dodgy master, hopefully can sort a lot out with EQing. Will take a look at the vocals as well. Cheers

Thanks for those responses. The engineer/producer I was mixing with was pretty insistent that all the breaths should be cut off this track, but I made him leave most of them on in the end. If you're interested it's 'We are not alone' on my myspace (link at the bottom). I felt the breaths add to the urgency of the track. This guy was telling me that it's standard practise to cut out breaths on up-beat tracks, but I've noticed breaths on a few commercial songs since then, e.g. that annoying new Katie Perry song. So that’s decided then, the breaths are staying in.

Hey guys. When do you edit breaths out from a vocal track, and when do you leave them in? Is there some kind of standard practice?

I'm just going to keep plugging away then, play gigs and do what ever I can.

Just put a vid on my myspace from my first gig with my project a few weeks ago. Some, uh, interesting singing, mainly because of the (lack of) moniter mix. Think I got away with it though.

Thanks guys, plenty of ideas there. Particularly thanks to John for taking the time to write that all out. So are you saying to do press releases or get media publicity I'd pretty much have to release a CD? That's possible I suppose, it would cost maybe £700 to get another 3 fairly decently recorded tracks to make up an EP. It's hard to throw that much money at something just because it could lead to some local press coverage. I guess it's always worth recording anyway though, I'd have to increase my income to afford that. I'll look for bands in my area, but I don't think there's much of a scene around where I live. The nearest live music venues are miles away, and the only local bands I know of are really small bands, i.e. the kind of thing you suggested to avoid. There's one fairly big band from my area, but they’re punk so I wouldn't really fit on the same bill. I'm gonna try to start a mailing list playing at open mics, as that's free promotion. Maybe if I keep playing the same open mic in London I can make that 'my venue', so I become known in another area than Woodford. I'm also thinking of trying to make a music video, as one of my friends is studying film and could help out. I’m not sure what I’d do with it then though – I’m pretty much a headless chicken at the moment. Maybe I need a manager.

Hey guys. Just posting as I'm having trouble getting anyone to come to my gigs. I think I've got some pretty good material, and a good band to play it. You can hear for yourself if you go on my myspace. I've just played a couple of gigs, and at the first one I brought 9 people, though the venue was still pretty full. The next one I only brought 3 people down, one band pulled out, and the other band only brought one person. To make it even worse, it was at the Bull and Gate, which has capacity for hundreds of people and a massive stage. Admittedly the gigs locations were a bit funny, one Kentish Town and one in Fitzrovia, when I'm from Woodford (east London/essex). I booked them as I though they were better venues and more connected to the scene in London, but there's no point playing to a virtually empty room. For both gigs I invited everyone on facebook and gave out a lot of flyers, for the Kentish Town gig I even got somebody to go flyer nearby on the night, but the total return from flyering was pretty much 0. I've booked a slightly more local gig in Leytonstone, will see how many people come down for that. Beyond that I don't know what to do. Because a couple of the people I'm playing with are on a session basis, I can't really afford to do a lot of pointless gigs. I'm virtually out of ideas. Has anyone got any suggestions of how to get a few people through the door? Jon

You can't just 'learn to play guitar', or even 'learn to solo'. You have to have something you actually want to learn. Could be traditional blues guitar, metal shredding, jazz, pop riffs, whatever. Pick something you want to learn, get a recording and work it out note by note. There is no secret, the trick is to get started; it doesn't matter where you start, as long as you start somewhere.

Elton John lost his falsetto from over-singing. You should probably rest your voice more, and hopefully it will recover. Or see a doctor.

Ah, so smueske is saying that if they had professional equipment, red book mastering would be available. So that implies they're not using the correct professional equipment. Hmmm

I saw their ad on gumtree, hence why I assumed they would probably do a discount. I find that most people enjoy a little bit of haggling, half the time people will make you an offer just for asking. (Works on the high street as well by the way). I just had a little google, and it seems there are quite a few sites offering this kind of service. None of them seem to offer red book mastering, but really I'm just looking for a nice polished sound. I'll see how the tracks come out after I've had them recorded, if I think they need improving I'll give it a go. £74 quite a bit of money to me, my income is just from a bit of teaching, and my music related expenditure is massive at the moment (given that I'm playing with session musicians). It could be worth a punt though.

What do you guys think of this site (http://www.doctormix.co.uk)? It's run by a studio in London, offering to mix you track and send it back over the net. I'm recording in the near future in my drummers studio, and should be able to get down some fairly tight parts. Only prob is, I know very little about mixing and production, and I'm not convinced the drummer is a great producer either. (He has some experience of production, but he's primarily a drummer). So it could be quite attractive to get a couple of tracks professionally mixed and polished. Does this site look like the real deal to you? It's £74 per track, I bet they'd do a bit cheaper though. My only issue would be that with the example mixes, it almost sound like the before track has been compressed or something to exaggerate the improvement. I don't really know enough about production to be able to tell though. Would be good to get an opinion off some one who knows what they're talking about. Jon

Here's what I've come up with: http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr148/J...older/Front.jpg http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr148/J...Holder/Back.jpg I'm quite happy with it as an amateur effort. I'm gonna send it off to the printers unless anyone suggests some amendment. (It's come out blurry on photobucket, the files are too big.)

That might be a bit too expensive. Think I'm gonna focus on flyering near other gigs and venues in the area. I'm also gonna try playing a some songs at a few open mics, and then flyering a bit there.

Just negotiated £3 per head if I can get 60 people, so that's my target. Can maybe get 30-40 friends in, so gotta get say 30 people froms flyers.

It's for a gig in a pub round central London (http://www.crucialmusicclub.co.uk/gigs2.php), so I was thinking to give out as many flyers as possible in the area. I might try giving flyers outside music venues for like a week before. The gig is for my solo project, with full band. The kind of music is a slight issue as it's hard to pigeon hole. It's basically pop and rock, with some elements of jazz and reggae. It doesn't sound super progressive though, it all works, but it's quite hard to define. I'm thinking to just describe it as pop/rock, and let the rest come as a nice surprise. There should be 4/5 bands on, the other two that are booked already are myspace.com/menandgods and myspace.com/tigersofrushmore. I checked out the venue's flyer, it's pretty poor http://www.crucialmusicclub.co.uk/flyerD.php?DN=10301 I've found a site with really cheap printing (saxoprint.co.uk). I could get 2000 glossy double sided A6 flyers printed for about £35, or A5 flyers for about £60. I might even try to get some people in to do some flyering on the day for commission. The venues offering £2 per flyer if you bring 40 people, so I could go on gumtree and offer people £1.50 per response to flyer. Just an idea. I'm willing to spend as much money as I'm going to get back, or even a bit more. At this stage I'm playing for promotion, not to make money. My bass player is quite a talented artist, so I might see if he wants to have a go at drawing something by hand. Could then scan it in and use printed text. Or I could go for a comic touch with a picture of me with a cheesy thumbs up and the caption 'Come to my gig!' on one side, and the details on the other. The options are endless. I could even try and co-ordinate something with some of the other bands. The capacity of the venue is about 200, I'd love to fill it up. How many extra people do you think 2000 flyers could bring in?

I've got to design a flyer for my next gig this week. Has anyone got some tips as to what makes a great flyer? I'm thinking bright colours, not to much text, map of the area. If you've got some good ideas, please share.

Sometimes an intellectual concept can translate to emotional impact. That's when thinking comes in handy.

For slower songs I usually completely write the song with just vocals and piano or guitar. I then add a bass line, I actually pretty much use classical harmony for that (bass on the key note unless I want an inversion, plus passing notes). I'll then jam around the bass line for a while, and if I find any nice fills or anything unusual that works, I swap it in. I then see if I can come up with a lead guitar part. I usually try to write lead parts by just imagining sounds without playing, as that can allow you to come up with unusual ideas and rhythms. Often I'll come up with a line that I would never have written with an instrument, as I can't actually play it. If I come up with anything that fits, I layer it in. I then get the band together and try out various drum lines. Then, most importantly, I listen to the overall sound and see if it's too busy, if anything clashes, if the sound is even, if it has the right kind of 'energy flow' etc. I then take things out and put thing in until it sounds right. Just last week I completely arranged a song, and then decided it was better with just piano. For a more rhythmic song, I start with a basic rhythm and then just throw ideas in, arrange a couple of sections, and then sort out the structure at the end. With the drums, I often avoid having high hat on every beat, instead having the hat play another counter rhythm. I think the drums should sound almost melodic, a line that you would want to listen to by itself. I tend to use more riff based bass lines for faster songs, and often I like to match up the lead guitar to the bass, leaving second guitar or keys to fill in the chords.

Not trying to put anyone off, everyone who plays should try singing. However, if you're voice really isn't great you might be flogging a dead horse. I'm definitely not saying don't sing if you have an unusual but artistically useful voice, like Bob Dylan. I'm saying that if your voice doesn't work for the kind of music you want to do, then sticking to instruments or maybe working with a vocalist is going to save you a lot of wasted time (or even a lot of embarrassment). We’ve all heard somebody perform who had a really horrible voice. Don’t be that guy.