Jac
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Posts posted by Jac
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I'v just been reading about the time the band were sued by the students who sang on the track ' another brick in the wall'. The kids were 13-14 yrs taken from a music college and spent a week practicing their lines. They said it was great fun but were never paid lol. When older some decided to sue but didnt get anywhere.
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The Buggles said it best..
a study in the 'Native communications' said our collective attention span is narrowing... all because of Social Media.
It's been effecting the music industry. Social Media is our instant gratification. It says' listeners simply will not spend time listening to an entire album or even 6 mins of a song to make their decision about an Artist.
Muscianwave article dated 9, 2022 lists many problems one being that our attention span is shorter than ever, they said its 'all about the visuals.'
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On 4/14/2023 at 7:53 PM, RC James said:
Whatever hold surprise has
on my waking,memories of you in my morning room,alive with day,drifting across the floorto open the shutters,then turning back to meglowing as part of the sunrise,shrink those epiphanies to shadow.Your movements,twirling, arms raised,years ago, spring to mind;recollectionsbrim with delightbut bring to singular enjoyments,racing up and down hills on horsebackor finishing, after months my latest novel,no clear bliss.This recall brings no refuge,only stillness,settling the memory of your beautyinto a calm sea mist;for the sight of you I'd drown there,your eyes wed to mine.
l really like this.
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17 hours ago, VoiceEx said:
I actually have somewhat of a comical take on this topic. This is just a 'guess', but I find that sometimes history teaches us that the simplest of answers may spark interesting conclusions 😅
If I remember correctly, the modern music industry was founded somewhere in the 30's, at time when women were not treated as equally, as they are today. Which leads me to speculate that the fat cats which started running the show, were most likely a bunch of old school cigar chomping sexists (lol), and everything that comes with that.
And if that's the case, it would be logical to assume that such a manner of doing things would go on for quite some time, and that those kinds of decisions and old way of doing things may have affected us till this day.
That's really interesting,
I'v been looking at the Blue Grass scene and it does appear it was males that did the music that came from the scot/irish culture that emigrated to US.
l want to do some study on the history of songwriting, At moment it appears it was male dominated as they were the storytellers of old.
I'm just puzzeld that it's still only 2% of females that are songwriters today.
And its still only 27% of females in the music industry
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welcome
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8 hours ago, Austin Mulka said:
Hey everyone,
I’m excited to be part of this forum and connect with fellow music enthusiasts. My name is Austin Mulka, and music and writing have always been my passion. My favorite bands/artists of all time are Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, The Beatles, Queen, and Jeff Buckley.
In my current album, I am drawing inspiration from Chris Cornell, Nirvana, Foo Fighters, Alice In Chains and Soundgarden.
I’m looking forward to sharing thoughts, discovering new tunes, and being a part of this community.
welcome
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11 hours ago, Dave Egan said:
What a great question. The question of gender differences with regard to employment opportunities, social constructs, etc. is heavily discussed but lyrics… that’s something I had never thought of before! As someone who has studied psychology I think that this might be a very fertile area for a student who might choose to venture there.
My speculation is yes, there will be a significant and predictable difference between genders with regard to what emotions/responses are triggered by different lyrics however, I believe that a really good song probably transcends these gender differences because the music will be strong enough to connect directly with the emotional parts of the brain, bypassing all social constructs.
My two cents!
l agree , l think it is a great topic to explore, thank you for the reply and comments.
l did start first being curious about how male and female perceive lyrics in music, did they interprete them differently ,like they do some times in spoken conversations.
But then l came across the studies about how songwriting is mostly male in the music industry.. l think its only 2% for females so reported.
Females have said they find record labels to have discrimination across the boards in the business. From lower pay to harassment to male dominated record labels.
It got me thinking, is this something to do with how male and female interpret language.
Males are mostly more direct, competative etc etc
females are said to be more intutive, expressive, co operative etc etc
so it got me thinking, if song lyrics are shown to be more along the lines of the female gender ( or percived by that to males) could that account for the unequal status in the industry. I'm sure it not that simple.
I'm just reading a thesis written in 2022 by a guy who touches on that subject.
So my question is, 'why is it so unequal in the music industry for males and females, as studies show it's not getting any better'
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11 hours ago, john said:
So how do you think they perceive you?l think this is a important area that new ones in the music scene need to ask. In my opinion, the interaction between music artist and the followers has changed dramatically,
l was watching last night a lot of Ren interviews that's on youtube. He is the new era of what is a happening and l feel will continue to happen in the music scene. What l mean is ,his connection he has with his followers.
Just read what his followers are saying on all his youtube downloads, whether it's on his officla lchannel or other downloads from other people.
l spent a lot of time last night reading their comments and it was so interesting. The theme through them all was 'thank you for your music and words, l feel you really understand me and know what im going through'.
and that was the over whelming theme in all the comments l read, from kids to over 70 yr olds.
l havent read comments like that any where else. Yes big Artist who spend millions on PR get big followers,' listening to the music and they will write on youtube such comments as' oh your lyrics really help me through my breakup etc etc. But somehow l feel they sound very shallow compared to what l read on The Artist Ren.
l think he has brought about a new change in that regard, that he does actually 'feel' whats going on inside of all of us.
l watched an interview of him where he sang his first song, he was very young, l think maybe 17 (he's now 33 l think ) The lyrics of that song was so heartfelt l had'nt read anything like that in a song lyric for a very long time. He absolutely poured his heart out and the comments replied as such.
l dont think any PR can do that for a musician.
Is it healthy for an Artist to bare his soul to his fans, l think it is and the time we are living in, l think the fans want it.
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l was very curious about this topic today when l realized that a comment ( one word ) l made a while ago on the forum may be interpreted differently because it was made to a male from female, and so interpreted differently. l wasnt aware of that till l read their reply that l could see they read it from a male perspective.
It was one word that l realized they saw it differently and yes l found out that it means different things to a male than from female perspective.
It got me thinking, does that matter in songwriting ?
I'm just reading about a study that was made at Californian Uni in 2022 showing how the male influence is much higher than females in the music industry. ( no study as yet on non binary genders)
As of yet the music industry is still the domain of the male.
What i'm curious about is 'how does song lyrics ( or even the music ) reflect the different interpretation seen/heard in male and females ?
Would l interpret song lyrics from a female perspective only? Do you think that matters ?
We all know that the music industry is made up more of males than females. A study shows its only 21% of females from musicians to producers etc etc.
So it got me thinking about how much influence does this have on the listeners, and Is it more male or female listening ? and is that changing ?
One word in a lyric ( and in everyday conversation ) can mean different things to different genders.
I'm still researching this today but was wondering if anyone else has thoughts on this.
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1 hour ago, VoiceEx said:
I don't think it terrifies musicians. Seeing little grey aliens staring at you through the window late at night would be terrifying 😅
Instead, I think that many musicians simply don't know where to start. Not to mention, there are plenty of musicians that only want to work on their music, and don't want to deal with all the behind the scenes stuff.
I couldn't agree more 👍 If fact, I could go on for hours about all the benefits, tools and connections that a lot of people here are either unaware of, or are simply ignoring. And don't even get me started on blogs 😅
You're right. Hell. I've said it many times before - Indie is the wave of the future!
little green/grey men looking through me window..yep that happens Saturday nights lol
l think artist underestimates the fans, the music consumers, their bread and butter that feeds them..far too long they 'have not' listened to them, they have listened to their managers, their producers etc that want to push the commercial side of them.
l guess i'm looking at it only from my side, the consumer, and what l would like to see now, instead of all the commercialism , out to get as much money as they can get, side of the music business. And l think the fans are trying to let the music industry know now, as all that side of it cannot be hided any more with social media etc. All that was hidden before from fans is now being revealed and some fans dont like it and they are letting their views be known.
And l l for one think it's about time.
i'm on my soap box again lol, forgive me lol.
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When l listen or researching a band l like ie interviews, l dont want to hear how they got together history etc,
l want to hear how they get their inspiration for their Music Art. l want to hear how they plan to keep exploring that inspiration, how they want to keep moving forward so they dont stagnate in their Art. l want to know what area's they want to explore.
l dont want to hear that they want to be famous , how they want to earn millions and have a big car lol.
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7 hours ago, VoiceEx said:
I too have been following Ren and what's going on with him, and I would like to briefly touch on a similar vain. Though being as I do not like to use known names as examples, i'll present this case from a different perspective.
In terms of collabs and shining the spotlight on others, I noticed that many musicians limit themselves to only collaborating with other musicians, and only sticking to music related content (collabs included). Which in my opinion is something that greatly limits their reach.
For example, while I do collaborate with musicians and music producers, I also collaborate and promote all manner of artists and content creators around related fields of interests. Screen writers, authors, illustration artists, Animators, VA's, various Podcasters, Youtubers, fellow Streamers, etc etc. There's more to it, but the idea is to always be active and always keep things engaging and in 'motion'.
I'm not a marketing expert, but I can tell you from my experience that adding variety tends to bring in a bigger audience. But, more importantly - It makes things more fun! Not only for the audience, but also for the creator. You'll always have something interesting to do, no shortage of content, and there are plenty of ways to keep things fresh and staying relevant.
I mean, think about it. Oh sure, a person can talk about their own music for hours. But doesn't it get... well.. you know... a little boring after a while? Perhaps after a day? a week? a month? a year? everyday for an entire year? 😅 As a rule of thumb I think its important to also put yourself in the audience's shoes as well!
I think that treating the fans well and respecting their time is a MUST, regardless of anything. I mean, what good is there in building a 'bridge' that's only fit for one person to cross? Though I will say, I really wish more Songstuff members showed an interest in these subjects. I know that marketing and the technical aspects bores the hell out of alot of people, but there are also fun sides. Which, in my opinion - nobody really talks about 😟
l think there is such good advice being explored on this thread.
But l think the whole idea of promotion terrifies some musicians.
To me , that's where forums etc like this one is invaluable and should be used more by musicians.
Going back to Ren, he has now a great team behind him. And because of that, he doesnt have the
constraints of a massive record label. He is able to explore his own ideas more.
l think indie Artists have that to their advantage, but some don't realize it.
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6 hours ago, john said:
That has long been the problem for independent artists. They think it is all about the numbers. It isn’t. It’s about meaningful numbers. Quality of numbers is massively important.In order to appear popular, many, many artists focus on growing their numbers by the easiest path, and that is normally follow exchanges.
Bands have always started with friends and family. Some never get beyond that. Quality wise, most of family and friends are fans of you as a person, not of your music. The chances of your gran being a huge death metal fan, are for most bands, highly unlikely. Some childhood friends might share your taste in music, but many will not. Initially such people will turn up to gigs, but pretty quickly it becomes the artist having to chase them up to have any audience. This is usually because they want to support you, as a relative or friend but they are not natural fans of your music.
The next group, these days, is other bands/artists. I want fans, you want fans, so let’s be each other’s fans! This is helpful for your first week, to boost your initial reach, but long term this is a really, really bad strategy. Such fans might never have listened to your music. Never have read your tweet (your X?). Never have been interested in what you have to say. They are not fans. They are on your follower list but they do not follow you. They are completely disengaged. Ok a very small few might, and I stress might, have listened to some of your music. A percentage of them might like it. That’s pretty random.
All artists are doing is training social media algorithms that almost everyone that follows you isn’t interested in what you post. So the social media platforms show your posts to an ever shrinking number of your followers… and so your releases are a disappointment. A series of disappointing releases that make artists feel like they are going nowhere. They are right. They have a large number of followers who just have no interest in their news.
The truth is: bands/artists need to find their REAL audience. At some point, the sooner the better, artists need to take that step, beyond the safety and comfort of friends and family, beyond artists more interested in adding you to their follower count than having any interest in your music. They NEED to consistently demonstrate that their followers are engaged, that they are interested and WILL RESPOND.
Real fans are interested in your news, your music, in what you have to say. They are engaged. Artists need to learn how to reach listeners.
More specifically artists need to:
- Reach listeners who are likely to be interested in their music
- Get listeners to actually listen to their music
- Cultivate listeners to become fans
- Cultivate fans to become super fans
That’s how you grow as an artist. As artists with a small budget and few contacts, they need to learn this as a mantra. Realistically, they need tools and processes to realistically move forward. They need to build a team too, to help… but that takes time.
For artists and bands, this is reality:
- Don’t rely on short cuts. Normally they lead somewhere you really don’t want to go
- Learn all you can
- Be prepared to work
- Your music only begins to work on your behalf when you put it in front of people who are likely to be interested in it
- Automate repetitive, less important tasks
- Focus on growing engagement, not follower count. You will get a better response from 500 actual fans than 50,000 disengaged, disinterested followers
l think another area for them to explore is making a blog. l know some would feel that doesnt seem like a worth while thing to do, but as for me being on the other-side ie a music consumer, l look out for those sort of interaction from a band l really like. It shows me they are not doing their music just to be millionaires ( if that's their reason, l can spot it a mile off in their Art !!) l think they need to really look into them selves early on in their music journey and ask them selves 'am l doing this for the Art , or for the money only'
l can tell when a music artist loves his craft, it comes out in his work. Those are the ones who through hard work will be be noticed.
l remember seeing a band, going on youtube , posting their music saying they want to be famous, saying they have lots of facebook / twitter followers, then putting video's of them selves only playing to friends and family. They didnt really love what they did, they didnt love the music Art, and l could tell right off , it showed in their music.... they really didnt love their Art.
There is no short cuts to getting promotion, and if its a small band they have to do the graft of the promotion l'm afraid.
If you love your Art, it will show in your Art.
There is a guy called Ren, He is an example of someone who loves his Art.
He got signed up by Sony very early on, but they dropped him when he became ill, He has'nt given up and he's gone viral on youtube etc. He hasnt given up because he loves his Art and he cant give up. But one thing l read about him is, he still likes to busk in Brighton, he says he loves the interaction with the public. He loves his Art and his work shows it. He does it not to be a millionaire, he does it because he loves his Art, and it shows.
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Plagiarism is a hot top topic at moment concerning the music industry.
a very well known multi millionaire Artist is being highlighted for her years of doing this and getting away with it.
it's not new, it always gone on, but research is showing it's getting much, much worse.
Research say because its so much easy to do now.
The artist above is also known for taking other artists choreography, art work, fashion copying etc ...the list goes on.
l was shocked how much they were doing it and getting away with it. Now the Artist is being called out and is called a 'soul less thief' !!
Any opinions ?
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11 hours ago, Peggy said:
As a music artist, it's crucial to connect with your fans and show them some love! Social Media platforms are fantastic ways to interact with your fans. Directly responding to comments, using DMs, engaging in conversations and sharing updates about your music or upcoming projects can make them feel special and appreciated.
Newsletters or email updates are also an effective way to keep in touch with your fans. Sending regular updates about new music releases, upcoming shows, or behind-the-scenes content helps maintain engagement and keeps them excited about what's coming next.
But don't stop there! Take advantage of live shows to create unforgettable experiences for your fans. Whether it's through fan gear merchandise, meet-and-greets, fan Q&A sessions, or even surprise performances, these moments strengthen the bond between you and your supporters.
And let's not forget about those chance encounters on the street or in public settings. Taking the time to chat with fans who recognize you can leave a lasting impression. A simple smile, autograph, or quick selfie can make their day.
Remember, building a strong connection with your fans goes beyond just creating great music. It's about making them feel like they're part of something bigger – a community that supports and loves your art.
So.. How do you interact with your fans? What seems to be working best for you? Got other ideas for connecting with your fans?
As a music consumer, l would like to see more interviews coming from indie bands. l dont know why there are so few. They set up say a YouTube channel, put on their video's ( with lyrics if possible in my opinion ) but then they wonder why they dont get many follows. They get say loads of follows on X or facebook, but im not convinced they are true followers. Anyone can push the numbers up on there and it looks impressive. My sister in-law has massive follower numbers till l saw it was people like her hairdresser lol. l think youtube is a great platform for new bands to interact with potential new fans by taking the time to actually read the comments and reply and post quick interviews.
Another way l think is worthwhile is using forums like this. If they think only musicians read these forums they are wrong, l think a lot of music consumers ( so possible new fans) are reading these forums as well !
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l like this..
just subscribed to your youtube channel.
where can l find the lyrics please ?
edit; sorry l forgot to say welcome.
l can see lyric's on yr other tracks on you tube except 'lost' and 'muse uprising'
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42 minutes ago, VoiceEx said:
Why did the Neanderthals start to sing? Was it because of some inner compulsion to express emotion through sound? Or was it simply a discovery they made while developing their speech through mimicking the sounds they heard in the environment? And since our sense of hearing begins to develop early in pregnancy, does that mean that for us music is a sort of "cognitive extension"?
In other words:
I'm afraid you're guess is as good as mine 😅👍
lol, l know, and it's fascinating.
and you mention the sounds humans hear, all around them ie animal kingdom etc.
l dont think there is any sounds from the animal kingdom that l find un- pleasant.
l notice them all the time. In fact l like all sound..l often just go outside and sit and listen to the sound from the large tree we have in our garden when the wind is blowing the leaves. l love it.
l remember there was a study done years ago that said the world economical situation had an effect on what people wanted to listen to in the music industry.
At difficult times, the people didnt want sad songs, logical l guess.
But here's a question..
if a lyric writer writes a sad song, from his experiences he's had, does that reduce his chance of it getting it 'heard' if the a) world events at that time is a factor on who will listen, and b) whether he has the right music to go with his lyrics, which studies show will give happy or sad reception ?
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22 hours ago, john said:
That is the difference between the intention of the writer, intended influence and unintended influence. We can all mean to write something, openly acknowledging our influences, including our emotional state. Yet often our circumstance, our emotional state unintentionally influences our writing. Even our intention, itself, can be swayed.No matter how rigidly we use process and form, who we are in that moment influences what we feel, even what we observe and the meaning we take from stimulus, and the meaning we imbue or intone.
Some writers are literal. Others more abstract. Although not every time, I try to write songs that can be interpreted on different levels. I use abstraction deliberately such that a song means what I felt and what I wanted to convey, but it also can be interpreted very differently. So, on a very simple level, you can write a love song that tightly defines who is involved:
“John loves Karen”
or“He loves her” “They are in love”
More ambiguous towards individuals, less personal, but tightly gendered.
“I love you”
which is ways more open to interpretation, ambiguous towards gender but also very intimate and direct.
”I care about you”
Similar with some emotional ambiguity too.
“I deeply love you”This is open to interpretation, ambiguous towards gender, very intimate and direct but stronger feelings amplified with “deeply”
”I deeply care about you”
This has ambiguity but that is amplified, whatever that feeling is.
I like writing using ambiguity in a way that doesn’t dilute the depth of feeling, but it does allow the listener to decide how they relate to the song. Is it about someone they know? Is it about them? It brings the listener into the writing process. The song is only finally written between the listener’s ears… between every listener’s ears. The more abstraction is used, the wilder the interpretations become.
Perception is everything, and we as writers can play with perception to a high degree.
Yes, l agree, perception is everything in the words of a song.
What l found interesting is that there has been very little scientific study on effects of song lyrics, but loads of studies on effects of music.
Music therapy is big in treatment for metal health now, as its found to help patients. Studies show that listening to music lessens pain plus studies show it gives 9% rise in dopamine.
But what l found so interesting in ,was a study in 2011 found how much music effects v song lyrics.
They did a study and found if volunteers listened to sad music plus sad lyrics, the volunteers felt sad,
but, if they listened to happy music but still sad lyrics, they volunteers felt happy
The researchers couldnt account for why that was.
Kings College London Professors Sally Marlow said
Quote; 'l think that instinctively we all know that music can make us feel better. l think the really interesting question is 'Why' -end quote.
she said research has shown that music can be uplifting and drumming reduce depression.
so what about song lyrics.
l myself think they are very important. Well, they are to me.
and that's where l find it so interesting because l once asked my husband ,who also listened to a lot of music'' is the lyrics important to you' he said no !!
if fact when he buy a new album, its the music he listen too first, and then the lyrics later,
l found is that he reads them much later, in fact it could be months later.
Not me, when l buy a new album, l go immediately to read the lyrics, in fact l find l cant connect with the song unless l read the lyrics at same time.
so it appears that my husband is a hearing person, and i'm a visual person.
So l guess songwriters fall into that category as well. Are they a hearing person or a visual person.
going back to Kate Bush' Misty' I guess some would say, her fantasy she had when she wrote 'Misty' has a deep unconscious meaning.
But it does make me wonder that if her track' Misty' ( which has a very sad melody) was given a happy melody, would l have come to a different conclusion of the lyrics meaning. According to studies, happy music with sad words will give happy feelings !
'Misty 'has a sad melancholy music with melancholy lyric= fans find it a sad song, which kate bush says the song has no meaning, its just a fantasy.
well all l know is that music, any music , sad or happy, with or without lyrics, helps reduce my physical pain, so researches got that right.
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23 hours ago, VoiceEx said:
I think that "bad times" are more likely to induce a string of circumstances which encourages (or leads too) an emotionally charged state of mind. Which in turn leads to a more a "fluid direction" of expression. Its basic psychology, really.
That being said, while I do think that "bad times" (or particular states of mind) have a high probability of influencing which directions or approach a person might take, I also think that this sort of outcome is not necessarily certain. For example, it is possible to write a "happy" or "positive" song while experiencing anger or distress.
Not to mention, there are also writers and musicians which work through methodology. In which case, their own personal feelings or thoughts may not always be reflected in their work.
That's so interesting.
The big question, why do songwriters write songs?
l remember reading about an interview about Kate Bush being asked 'why did she write a song called' Misty'
one of my favorite tracks of hers.
l was shocked by her answer.
she said she had no interpretation of it. She said it was just a made up fantasy.
She said she was herself surprised at the different interpretations listeners made if it. ie that it was about desire., or loss, or death etc.
She said the song was just fantasy.
l always thought the song lyrics was about her relationship with her husband or a different partner and about the feelings of loss she felt in that relationship.
l was more convinced it was about that when l read she had had a difficult emotional time with past break up with a partner that was combine at the same time with the loss of her mother, So when l read that, l was sure that my first thoughts on the song lyrics were right.
Then l read her interview and she said it had no meaning, it was just a fantasy written song lyrics. l remember feeling very shocked at that. Then l thought, yes, we all can interpret song lyrics in different ways. It made me more interested in why humans write songs.
Psychology , yes.
But to me, it the infinite question of what mankind has always wanted to know,
of ' Why'
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welcome.
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On 8/12/2023 at 4:21 PM, john said:
Nice idea.
I went to see them twice, in the early 80s, when the band was half of Deep Purple and included British musicians, like Jon Lord. They were very much a Blues Rock band back then. It was before the band was Americanised. For example, in the song "Here I go again" they swapped out the word "hobo" for the word "drifter".
Cheers
John
my husband has seen them quite a few times, at Donnington + Bham NEC and Bham NIA where David Coverdale was ill , had to go off stage about 3 times, then he apologised and told audience he could'nt carry on.
He's just got back from the live tribute gig, Band called Whitesnake's Journey. They played first song Deep Purple 'Burn', then Whitesnake songs, then Journey, says brilliant night
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Somewhere in this crowd is my husband and my daughter, He took her last year for her wedding anniversary.
He's off tonight to see their tribute band and i'm unable to go
so i'm having a Whitesnake day
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welcome Dave.
very nice album, lovely voice. l really like the lyrics.
working me way down the tracks.
l like the lyrics to ' time to move away'
very nice arrangements on your album.
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so i'm having a Whitesnake day -
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Pink Floyd
in Musician's Lounge
Posted
'Speak to me' track has a heartbeat sound at beginning that was recorded from the wife of a EMI employer, who was 9 months pregnant...