john
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Posts posted by john
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13 hours ago, Auburn said:
The interface looks like this. ^
The quote button is just text that says quote, and is easy to confuse with a text input box. I generally think that having so much member information next to and below every single post is redundant - if I wanted to see all that info, I could just click on the person's profile. It could at least be trimmed.
The challenges boards are both pretty underutilized. I feel like conglomerating them into one broader "Challenges" board would be a good idea. I still don't know what is actually meant by "Music Marketing Challenges", it doesn't have a description.
I could make more suggestions, but ultimately they would just be a showcase of my very subjective taste. I prefer minimalism, and prefer more tag-based categorization: makes it much easier to find sort through stuff, filter out stuff, find posts, etc.
A "Resources" board would be appreciated, assimilating the VST and VSTi board. Along with that, maybe an "Analysis" board for talking about existing music made by established artists, and a "Gear" board too.
All good suggestions, thanks.
When you mention the quote button, it sounds like you mean the word “quote” at the bottom of each post? There is also a pop up quote when you highlight text in a post and the “ button in the editor toolbar.
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Hey there Nathan
Welcome to Songstuff
Sounds like you had some excellent experiences. No doubt, loads more to come.
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11 hours ago, Rei Toris said:
I mostly come from a past of lots of drinking and YouTube. So pretty much I've binged videos of Lil Wayne, Eminem, Chelsea Grin, Suicide Silence -- largely hip-hop/rap and rock/metal. But back when I smoked weed I've even had exposure to EDM, Dubstep, and house music - artists such as Infected Mushroom and deadmau5. Hard to say what exactly influenced me, but there is quite a passion to do something myself.
I've been doing electronic music ever since a friend of mine showed me FL Studio and told me about SoundCloud back in like 2012. I've made hundreds of mp3s, deleted it all in 2015, and after a 5-year hiatus I picked up where I left off (started fresh) and now now have been doing several profiles. It's largely a solo project, and an obsessive hobby. In chronological order they are:
https://soundcloud.com/nevanax
https://soundcloud.com/reinumtwo
https://soundcloud.com/forsure420
https://soundcloud.com/primori1337
https://soundcloud.com/mhorky
https://soundcloud.com/avooex
https://soundcloud.com/raseri101
https://soundcloud.com/raseri1337
https://soundcloud.com/reitorus1337Interesting! I deleted all my music at one point. I still haven’t uploaded much. A couple of times under pseudonyms, but that is it. I’m recording a bunch of songs just now. We’ll see.
Why did you create multiple artist accounts? I know why i did, but nowhere near as prolific as you. I loved the way it completely liberated me as an artist. No constraints, no reason to conform to anything. As a creative, I loved that.
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Hey Rei
Welcome to Songstuff!
I liked “come in peace”. They are quite chaotic soundscapes, but I like pretty out there electronica and have been known to do my own pieces from time to time.
What artist/composers would you say are influences? What artists are on your playlist?
Cheers
John
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Hey there Tory!
Welcome to Songstuff!
What sort if set up are you running? Sorry, I’m a gear nerd lol I’d love to hear some of your previous work. Would that be possible? If not, not to worry, I am sure we’ll get to hear your work as we roll forward.
Just an idea, but it’s a nice offer you have made. If you write a post, detailing exactly what you need from clients/collaborators, ie track quality, levels etc. You get extra points if you make it the standard of an article!
I’ll speak to Mahesh and get him to include a link to your post in the next newsletter. If you don’t have a graphic, I will happily contribute with a little effort. All I ask is some basic images, of a good quality of your studio set up, or you with a mic etc. I could use stock images but that would just come off wrong I think.
Anyway, there’s an offer to help you helping other members. If you want to take me up on it, just say.
Cheers
John
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Looking good Mahesh! Good luck with the video release…. Not to mention the Spotify streams for the audio!
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Very good Ore! You did a great job.
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Hi Philip
Welcome to Songstuff.
This board is for introductions so you probably won’t get much in the way of critique. I’m not complaining. We have different boards for different topics and members expect certain content and activities in those places.
There are dedicated critique boards for lyrics and for song recordings. There, members are expected to contribute critique of each other’s lyrics. You don’t need to be experienced, you just need to put in some effort, be honest and be constructive. That is not the same as “only say positive things”. I mean be helpful. When you see something, make suggestions that might help. Similarly when you get feedback, please respond to everyone that leaves a comment. It’s meant to be a discussion for all involved.
What about you? What are your goals for your songs? Do you play any instruments? Record your songs?
Cheers
John
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5 hours ago, Auburn said:
The forum's pretty quiet at the moment. There's also some problems with it that I think need resolution. I have made a list of suggestions.
1) Replies to posts often have a ton of empty space due to profile details. I think these could be condensed or hidden until hovered over. In fact the actual profile details aren't very nicely laid out, as you can see in this example "Band / Artist Name: Auburner" is formatted awkwardly as
"Band / Artist
Name:Auburner"
There also isn't a space between "Name:" and "Auburner". Some UI improvements could be made here.
2) The homepage's layout isn't great either. The banners on top of each board only add clutter, I think simple icons next to each board's name would keep them visually readable while removing unnecessary clutter.
3) There are a lot of unused boards, and some boards that I think the forum is lacking. Some sets of boards could definitely be consolidated together. I'd also like a board to discuss and analyze tracks by well known, successful artists - to try and learn from what they do right and what they do wrong.
4) The text editing window for making posts is pretty ugly, and once again has a lot of redundant empty space.Hey
Many thanks for taking some time to provide some useful feedback.
What are you viewing the boards using? Device/Operating System/Browser
All have some impact on what you see.
The boards are very quiet just now, but we’ve just gone through a lot of tech changes including full server moves. All that had an effect on activity, but it’s not the only reason. There are a lot of contributing causes. Some are really easy to fix, some are a bit harder. Some the staff need to do (such as the tech and style updates) and some are down to our community.
Activity breeds activity. There are a lot of members waiting. I say that because as activity happens, people who haven’t been around for a while appear and make a few posts. If the boards are active then they stay around. If not, they disappear off again for a while.
It’s an old chicken and egg scenario. The more active we are the more the forums will come back.
On the home page for the community, I am guessing you are meaning the list of forums? There are actually 3 different views of our boards available to users. I think the layout you might be looking for is “Table”. You can change between forum views using the 3 buttons right next to the Start new Topic button. you’ll see a group of 3 buttons immediately to the left.
The question is, should we change the default view to this view ( @Mahesh, @Peggy )?
I’d love to hear your suggestions for redundant boards, boards that should be combined and boards we should have?
We do rearrange the boards from time to time, both smaller and larger changes.
I’ll take a look and see what we can do about the profile details
As for the edit window, it greatly depends on what you are viewing with. Can you give a screenshot along with your device/OS/browser? Many thanks.
Staff have been really busy for a while working on some big picture things for the boards. We are here and totally willing to talk about the community form and functionality.
On another note, to all members, I’d love to recruit some new staff to help out, specifically to help us to get the community back up and running after all the changes. This place can be a buzz when it is running smoothly. It has the resources and server to do that, and a very workable plan to keep the community safe and viable as it moves forward. Our staff can do it with some active members on board. With a few extra staff we can greatly speed up this process and get the community back to how it should be, and have it back being what you need it to be.
Thanks again for bringing this up and making some good observations and suggestions. Even when members suggest things we have already heard about or thought of, hearing other members talking helps us to set priorities when there are a stack of things vying for our attention.
Cheers
john
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1 hour ago, Mahesh said:
And because of it, I've been even excited to work on my fanbase - one listener at a time.
Quite right. Your fanbase are not your enemy. By courting them you are not a sell out. Your fans are YOUR PEOPLE. They identify with your music. They get it. They support you. Why would you not support them? Trying to find more of them is entirely reasonable. Why would you not want to find more of your people?
I never understood the arrogance of artists, nor their stupidity, when it comes to their sense of entitlement.
“Build it and they will come” is arrogant in the extreme. It is a “no strategy - strategy” and it sucks ass. Arrogance aside, having spent ages making their music, why would you then just drop it and expect the universe to do all the heavy lifting for you? Breaking news to all artists, you are not entitled to anything. The universe owes you nothing. Nada.
Here’s the large chunk of the picture artists are missing. When you write a song, the job for a songwriter is not done. The job is only done when they get an artist to take on playing/recording the song. Writing it is only part of the job. If they don’t get an artist to take it on, the song sits on a shelf… and might as well not have been written. Tbh even then the job isn’t really done until you
As an artist, the job is not done when you arrange the song. It isn’t done when you record a song, mix it, or master it. It isn’t done until you deliver it to your audience, make sure they “take it on”, and that they too are satisfied. If they stop short of any of these, they might as well not have bothered at all. Until they complete delivery, and ensure it is well delivered, it remains in obscurity.
It is not up to the universe to fill in for our inadequacy, our arrogance or our nativity. The truth is, our music is obscure and overlooked, because of our decisions. Is it entitlement? I think it is a big part of it. I think the other big part of it is fear. Our fear of rejection (by the general public) causes us to pull our punches. We cannot lose a race if we don’t run it. Our psyche can live with that failure a lot more than the potential public humiliation.
So, we hobble ourselves and wrap it up neatly in a vague “true, real artists don’t need to promote their music” and “real artists don’t charge for their music”. That’s just what some tell themselves, an excuse they tell themselves, a salve to make them feel better. They didn’t fail because their music was “bad”. They failed because they weren’t given a shot, because the industry refused to look their way, because they didn’t have enough money. Whatever the reason, it was never something they did or didn’t do. It was something thrust upon them, something they had no control over.
No matter. If they truly want to be artists worthy giving a damn about, there is hope. Their actions can and will make a huge difference. They can build something, a following for their music… but they have to be active.
On charging for it… people take free for granted. A small number will take “free”, value it for what it actually is. Many will take, but have no loyalty. They value it but feel entitled. Many will not see it or value it in any way. They park it on a shelf to be used when needed, some day. Many others simply will not see the value in it. The end.
We set the value for what we create. Others pay it, or they don’t. Free or paid, they still have to want what we offer. Our job as artists is to present what we have and make it attractive, appetising. We have to give them an appetite for our music. Encourage their hunger. Feed them. We don’t sell them steak. We give them an appetite by exposing them to the sizzle.
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5 minutes ago, Kevin1 said:
As for most original music that people who have written their own songs, on various forums, hardly a mention.
The problem is, most independents don’t know how to market and promote themselves or their music, they haven’t taken the time to understand either the traditional music industry or the newly evolving opportunities they could take advantage of.
There once was a myth of “being discovered”. It largely evolved around playing some gigs locally and gradually playing better gigs. At some point either you, or a mix, was “discovered” by someone with influence, money, access and interest, who would champion you as an artist and from then you were made. It was bullshit then and even more bullshit now. Still, many artists rotted on the vine waiting to be discovered. Music marketing was a black art, and understanding it had a whiff of selling out. Also complete bullshit.
The truth is, most artists like making music, and have zero knowledge or very naive application of that knowledge of music marketing. They have zero understanding of the business of music and zero motivation to learn about it. Importantly there is often a feeling of rejection of learning because that too makes you interested in selling out. Also complete bullshit.
Between people who actually believe all the bullshit and the people they influence by shouting loudly, too many artists either wait in vein to be discovered, or they tinker around the edges with completely disjointed and isolated tactics. They then become even more bitter than they were, blaming an industry they never took the time to understand for their lack of success.
Don’t get me wrong. They are defeated by ignorance and misinformation, and at least some of that is self-inflicted. This is not about fame, or the possibility of fame. It is simply about doing something with their music. I would not criticise someone for pursuing fame, but I would highlight the extremely small chance of success in becoming a top flight star. However, becoming a full-time artist is very possible, as is achieving a degree of fame. Fame is something that has had no appeal to me since I was pretty young, it’s not for me. I love playing, writing recording, having fans of my music, but the complete loss of privacy is no joke and I couldn’t live like that.
My point is not to rant. A load of original music never gets a shout out because, the artists did very little to promote it, often didn’t so much release it as made it available, and they don’t leverage back catalog when making new releases. Indies have a lot of potential for power within the industry, but they do not work together, and numbers is one of their biggest potential strengths… and they completely squander that. They are overlooked by the public and by most radio stations, bloggers, reactors and influencers, because independent artists overlook them. They don’t give people a chance to notice their music and often do little but complain at being overlooked… which goes back entirely to the mindset of “being discovered”.
The onus IS NOT on others to discover us. The onus is ENTIRELY ON US to put our music in a place where it cannot be avoided. The onus is also entirely on us, to do as much as we can to have people encounter our music in as favourable a way as possible. It is entirely on us that they remember us and our music, and it is entirely on us to motivate them to keep listening until they get our music and ar hungry for more. Simple.
Collectively indies do far too little together, and virtually nothing for the good of the scene, the music environment and we shoot ourselves in the foot at every turn.
Most independent artists run the industry down, they contribute to society’s devaluing of music and they blame everyone but themselves.
Success for an artist varies in scale, but generally it takes years of concerted effort to achieve, and a lot of that is spent making mistakes and learning.
Mindset is what undermines independent artists. Their own mindset as individuals. Our collective mindset is also important, and it no doubt has a major effect on the general attitude towards music and musicians, but success for our music? That is completely in our hands.
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On 5/16/2024 at 4:00 PM, Kono Music said:
It would be good to see you post some words along with your video... and I hope to see you reply to comments too. Support is a two way street
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hey Gang
I was reading a post by @Shipreck (I hope you don't mind me quoting you here) where they mentioned how they felt about giving critique:
"Critiques are hard, I do like receiving them and reviewing them. I do critique songs in my head all the time, but sharing them with the artist is hard. I don’t want to discourage anyone from being creative. This attitude makes everything come across as fluff and only positive notes. That being said, I’ll do best on giving a honest critique."
I just wanted to pick up on this, without taking away from the critique topic it was in. For me, the answer is to offer constructive critique. It's not about saying positive things. It's about the intent and how that intent manifests.
By that I mean, be honest, but try to be useful, so that your words are taken constructively because they are offered constructively.
True it will not get around someone intent on taking your comments as a negative criticism. Members should not be here for back-patting. They should be here looking to improve their skills. They should be building confidence by improving those skills. As people offering critique, we can help build confidence in writers, yet again, by offering constructive critique.
Critique is about a few simple steps:
- Observation
- Analysis
- Suggestion
- Discussion
Out of interest, you can improve your own songwriting skills by exercising all 3 of these critique skills.
Observation
The ability to observe techniques, constructs, phrases, word choice, etc. objectively.
Analysis
The ability to deconstruct and understand a song, to understand the likely consequences of the choices made by the writer/composer
Suggestion
Offering alternatives (not pushing them), projecting them forward for likely impact, and comparing that with making no change.
Discussion
As it sounds, it is an opportunity for the writer and the reviewer(s) to chew over the various possibilities. They are, however the writer's decisions. Whatever your advice, whatever the reaction, walk away and leave it behind you.
You might find this article of use too:
Lyric Critique For Songwriters
there's a whole bunch of useful articles here:
One last point, it is always important to remember that:
We offer opinions. We are not songwriting Gods, offering absolutes from on high. They are the writers. They have to live with the consequences of their decisions, we do not. In all honesty, by observing analyzing, suggesting, and discussing you have exercised your skills, and given them a good workout. At this point, you have no more skin in the game. Don't beat writers over the head with your opinion. The end stage is discussion. It is not "Give a speech".
Having a framework for how you approach critique will help.
Cheers
John
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Hey Kristie, a big welcome to Songstuff. Dive in!
Onwards and upwards!
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Hi and welcome to Songstuff! Good to have you aboard.
I’m looking forward to a Kill Krypto video!
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Woot Kill Krypto! Cipher metal? 🙂
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4 hours ago, Pantonal said:
I think part of the problem with responses to this thread was the suggestions for how to reply. I use Logic for my productions and sometimes it does stuff that mystifies me. I had one song that would give me the endless spinning beach ball from hell if I tried to start it at any point within the song, but played no problem from start to finish. I never solved that, but fortunately I was almost done with it. If anyone has experienced and solved that I would love to hear it.
If I have a problem now it's that I don't really have anyone to run mixes past. I'm an older guy and my ears are tired, north of 10k doesn't exist for me, except in the tinnitus I hear constantly. Fortunately, north of 10k is just crispy land, but that's definitely not something one wants to overdo.
Not perfect by any means, but will catch bigger issues, run your audio through a spectrum analyser and compare to a reference track at a similar stage of the song. Not a substitute for good ears, but better than sweet fa! -
Answering my own thread here (so someone else better chime in!)…
I know that people tend to try and live in the fast-lane all the time now, and very few work with home built sample libraries… it’s a lost art, along with creating your own patches on your synth of choice. Still, it’s what I would suggest for the financially challenged (most of us).
It’s so common now to try and solve diversity of sounds by buy new sound libraries. That is certainly faster, but also a shortcut to sounding like everyone else. Building your own sample library helps you create something unique. It also teaches you a lot about the nature of sound, and the capabilities of filters, envelopes and waveforms, and the pros and cons of different synthesis types, (AM, FM, Additive, Subtractive, Granular etc). Sure, Initially you might spend a day creating a single patch, but the more you do it, the faster it gets.
Top Tip, you can use free VSTs and effects to help you have some source sounds. As an exercise, try selecting some target sounds you would like to have in your arsenal. Then try to recreate them using the sounds you actually have. It’s not fast, but a great way to learn about tech in general and your kit in particular. 🙂
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Maybe they are scared of self-actualisation. Maybe a lot believe in 2056 (Now I’ve set the timeframe!) and by talking about it they will make it real?
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10 hours ago, Pinicky 001 said:
Which streaming service are you talking about?,I mean you can transfer your playlist through thirds like musconvtool
Who was talking about playlists?
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Oh, something else I can see AI being used to replace…. Fiverr services, and services outsourced to India, China and the Philippines etc. You know, pseudo link building, fake plays, clicks, fake social profiles etc. Also Ad edits, graphics and video edits and special effects. We already have a load of background removal, healing brushes and much more as effects in photoshop and many other editors. Colour grading won’t be far behind, nor will template based production, and I would guess image to video interpolation.
Think of the great number of improvements in DAWs over the years. Most added options, but many hidden features streamlined the editor and other workflows, many helped make pretty complicated editing accessible to the untrained musicians. It has certainly made the need for recording studios different. Yes, how we use studios has changed some, but the home recording market is absolutely booming. The shear number of people getting garden studio pods, or much more sophisticated room set ups is amazing.
My point is, that change is always inevitable, and while it takes, it usually gives.
Supermarkets have changed. Self-checkouts, scan-as-you-go solutions… they put a lot of people out a job, while getting the customer to do the work… all neatly packaged as a customer advantage.
All these changes are happening with, and without AI. We are moving towards a world with less people working and with bigger changes in the kind of work they do, and how long they do it. Ultimately, you can see the possibility of a world where no one works, unless they want to. That is going to require new economic models. Who knows what income will be linked to. Stocks, shares and ownership… but what else? Eventually robots can do everything and anything. Everything we do can and will be replaced. One day in the future, we’ll have enhanced humans being the norm, as gradually we become part human-part machine (am I cheering you up yet?). We’ll have loads of free time but no money. Then will come the great robot strike of 2056 and we’ll all die. The end.
Change is inevitable. Embrace it and help shape it, be a cork on the ocean or sink into the depths. Your choice.
I don’t mean to be flippant. I just don’t find catastrophizing about things are personally conducive for me towards either things being better, or my personal happiness. I prefer doing something I can do something about, fight the fights I can win, choose my battles etc. The only way to stop AI would be a worldwide ban on computing, networks, and digital technology. Do you honestly see all that happening?
You’re right that being aware is important, because that prepares us for the changes to come. That way we can make the most of the relentless waves of “progress” and we can carve out some sense of personal purpose…
until 2056!
😉
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At least 150bpm bruv 😉
I am pretty sure those using logs for percussion felt kinda similar about the first skin drums 🙂
I know similar arguments about the use of technology once gripped the world about electric guitars. Hell the same happened with the transition from harpsichord->piano->piano forte though that transition was over a century.
The fact is, the world population increases massively overnight, and every month there are new technological advances. Fads come, fads go. Ai might win today, out of curiosity, but people will tire of it. People will tire of artificial, synthetic, and they will seek out “real’ music. Artists will add “Real Artist” to their profiles.
However, like most musical fads, those who seem to go the farthest are those who incorporate new tech and new ideas into their music as an addition, not as a replacement. After all, that is the reality of all music tech. There are 3 camps. Traditionalists (historic purists), Immersive Adopters (modern purists), and Incorporating Adopters. (My labels). Like almost all tech wars, genies do not go back in bottles, and when it comes to the arts, those who invent and reinvent, have the longest spanning careers. We have long appreciated innovators.
True, there will be some who reject change, as writers, players, listeners… but change and recycling are inherent components of art. Think about how many versions of Goths we’ve had, how many types of Goth musics there are. Music and pop culture perpetually reinvent themselves.
So don’t get too down about it. 🙂
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Good to hear. Its the right attitude. I know of Music Supervisors and SongLink but I’ve never worked with either. The library music market is a hard one these days. I also think it is worth developing relationships with production companies and doing direct pitches for the bespoke market. Getting to know some producers can get you in on the ground floor when a new project kicks off. A bit more effort, but better rates. Have you tried directly pitching to artists?
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Are you posting this looking for a collaborator, critique or something else? Just asking to make sure it is posted to the right board. If you let me know, I’ll move it for you and then tidy up your topic 🙂
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