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john

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Everything posted by john

  1. Welcome to the forums Joshua Payne :)

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  8. Hey Okay, a few points to mention. Yeah, yeah, I know, it's so unlike me! The reason a chorus or refrain (a chorus is a type of refrain) is repeated is that commonly, the chorus delivers the main lyrical message. As ever with songwriting there is no such thing as always. Confining myself to just deal with lyrics in isolation, which is in itself an unnatural and unrealistic situation, verses tend to fill out the back story, be that a story, a collection of statements to evoke emotion, or detail that conveys imagery. A chorus delivers the key message, modifies the meaning of the verses and generally contains the main lyrical hook, and often that hook is the title (yet again I stress not always, in fact far from it). Hooks are intended to be memorable. They hook the listener. They are the bit that people are most likely to remember. Some hooks are naturally fairly memorable, others we have to work at. Repitition in lyrics, text, melody, rhythm, imagery helps make something memorable. If you want your song to be memorable you employ repetition to underline the hook, the message. Think of it this way. If you write a protest song, no matter the back story you want the listener to take away and remember the key message. So you place it in a prominent location (yes some are better than others) and you repeat it. you repeat it. you repeat it. At least 3 times. This little repetition trick surrounds you, mainly in the form of advertising. There are other tricks to help memorability. Contrast, competition, alliteration, rhyme, abstraction. strong imagery, strong emotion, color... it's a fairly long list. Repeat a phrase and it will stick We want our listeners to remember our message. So we... Repeat a phrase and it will stick Sounds simple, and it is. Repeat a phrase and IT WILL STICK All the more so now that I used full caps and bold to further underline (hey work with me, I'm stuck in the medium of text only....) It works even better when you can inject emotion, something emotive yet unexpected, a number, a color or an image. Say these lines out loud (I just made them up) but try not to remember them: Two dark eyes crying bright blue stars I still remember how in awe I was She had Two dark eyes crying bright blue stars So sad Two dark eyes crying bright blue stars Did you get a visual from that? Does it mean something? Psychology and music is a very strong way to express something (only thing stronger is when you add an actual image or moving image along with the music and words. that is why advertising works. That is why you remember certain songs. that is the main reason the music business wants to get songs played multiple times. It's less about reaching more people with subsequent plays and more about repeating the song for those who have heard it before... though ideally the music business wants both new listeners and addicted listeners, with addiction coming from repetition. in the above verse you are not supposed to remember, the lines that aren't repeated are far more likely to be forgotten than the repeated phrases. That is precisely why the main hook, the main message and using the mechanisms I mentioned can be so powerful for songwriters when repeated. Add in the repetition of melody and it's even stronger. All that said, a subtle variation of one or more of the elements even once in a song can make the message even more memorable as long as that happens after some repetition of the message has occurred. So. Now I ask you... can you remember the repeated lines I asked you not to remember? If so, then the psychology of the lines worked. If not, can you remember any elements of the lines? ie can you remember anything of what was mentioned? If so the psychology used to write those lines has worked but could be more effective. How about the non-repeated lines, can you remember them? Some of you might but most would probably only have a vague notion. If I now repeat them a couple of times, there is a good chance you would remember the gist of the lines tomorrow. Sometimes writers will repeat a chorus just as you said williamsdaro, because of laziness, lack of creativity, or because they were pressed for time. Sometimes it is an unwitting thing. Sometimes a writer just naturally does it because they are conditioned to do so, just as listeners are conditioned to expect it, and that helps them become comfortable with your song. The unexpected has a strong effect only when contrasted by setting up the expected in the first place, although sometimes you can use what is generally expected, but that yet again works best if you deliver some of what is expected. Sheesh, now I am probably warbbling. lol Can you remember the repeated line now? It would be an interesting experiment to see how many did remember those lines tomorrow! lol The answer is, there is no right answer. Just what is more likely to work, and what is less likely to work. I hope this helps. John
  9. Welcome to the forums beats4thebooth :)

  10. Welcome to Songstuff SlubberBub
  11. Hi and welcome to Songstuff Vaibhav
  12. Welcome to the forums Trevor94 :)

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  14. john

    Welcome to the forums ioish :)

  15. Welcome to the forums teddybudds :)

  16. Welcome to the forums clubman :)

  17. Welcome to the forums Anthony Inguanez :)

  18. Welcome to the forums WhistleStop :)

  19. Welcome to the forums SlubberBub :)

  20. Welcome to the forums serabella :)

  21. Welcome to the forums JustListenx3 :)

  22. Welcome to the forums 6 foOt hiGh :)

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