john

True, although keyword stuffing has been an issue punished by search engines for years now Penguin turned the screws. Penguin certainly shook things up. My comments were just before Penguin went live and a number of things have changed from the backlink quality to keyword stuffing. How they assess backlink quality has become more strict accompanied with different weighting and more points of contextual measurement than before (reading between the lines).

Sweet Home Alabama - Lynyrd Skynyrd

Here's one song, when the levee breaks, look at the section "samples of the drum track": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_the_Levee_Breaks As you can see the Beastie Boys feature as users of that beat. They also used a beat from The Ocean and from Moby Dick. They also used samples of other instruments from Custard Pie, The Ocean and Rock and Roll. Most use of his drum samples are definitely rappers, but they even frature in tracks like Relax by Frankie Goes to Hollywood. I seem to remember Black Dog being used a lot, bits of Moby Dick and a few others. take a look at the number os John Bonham sample libraries and you realise he is an extensively sampled drummer.

hi Jon, Welcome to Songstuff!

I totally agree it is just one opinion. In an ideal world all of us would be confident enough to tell offensive people to piss off and to take comments and roll with them. Saddly that is not always the case. I know we have an ignore button but I think it only applies to the private messages and profile comments. I will need to check that! Hmmm. Who to ignore.... I am glad you think our community is one of the better ones.. we work hard to try and keep Songstuff a friendly and fair community. lots of skilled members and nice people but I am biased lol

hi rick Thanks for replying. It might be worth considering. I know most sites that host critique boards, no matter the art form, can suffer from this mismatch between different needs and different perspective. I mean we just want pats on the back.. That can build a false confidence and perhaps individuals sinking thousands into a project... if only someone had told them etc. I get both sides of the argument. Cruel to be kind and all that. For me at least I try and balance directness with taking time over language. Still no matter how careful I have tried to be I have upset people with critique comments despite suggestions for improvement etc. It is not always straightforward what could upset someone. knowing goals and expectations help focus attention for critique. If someone wants to write a song for his girlfriend I see no value for that person to be told their voice is terrible... it achieves nothing. worse it could stop them making that romantic gesture which singer or not his girlfriend would have loved because it is him singing his song to her. if they want to front a band then genre specific a not great voice might get by just fine. But if they want to be a professional singer or sing some big vocal numbers they need to know their weaknesses. Hell the industry can rip them apart. Better to know and have a chance to consider options. At that point I think it is adviseable to make the point in away it will be digested and either acted on or ignored. One thing is for sure where music is concerned is that it is dominated by opinions and egos. Some are more fragile than others. One last thing is that many many bands have been turned down many times and still had successful careers. Even Simon Cowell has told bands they suck or a singer they can't sing only for that artist to become successful. Even his own back yard, with all his experience can be wrong.... or was he? lol On each occasion his comments gave them the strength to grow, play to strengths, work on weaknesses in performance or image or their songs.They reinvent based on his respected opinion. Not that I am fan of his approach I still often agree with his point, just not how he put it! lol

Hi I was reading a song review topic that had sparked a debate regarding approach to critique. I could see elements of worth in the various comments, but often meaning is lost in quick language, and intent is lost with typing. Instead of filling up that topic with a possible argument I want to break out that topic, and it's approach to see if we can all learn something about giving critique... For me it is a question of balance. We all have our own opinions and choose just how tactfully we convey the points we would make and the suggestions that can flow from it. Not that I advocate bluntness, nor indeed following this individual, but Simon Cowell is well known for bluntly telling people they suck, or their song sucks or their voice etc. and it does have it's place... within an industry of people who want to be professionals or who want to be perceived as a professional. Not everyone does want that. Some want to pursue a purely artistic path, and all shades in between. So here is the dilema. You click on my song link and listen and you don't like what you hear. Do you say that, say something throw away, or not reply? Why? Do you clearly explain your opinion and how you reached it? Do you offer constructive, thought out, positive suggestions? If not, why not? Interestingly at this point I have not told you what I want from getting critique, nor my goals for my music. Also worth noting are that there are different expectations for different genres. Less commercial genres for example tend to seek less "Perfection" as it is portayed in the pop charts so much so that producers use pitch correction to the max.... I wonder what they would have done with Bob Dylan! Okay, different era, but there is a prime example of a gifted writer who sucked at singing technically, but fans loved the character in his voice (something hard to find in pop charts!). Luckily he played in a genre that prized songs above musicality and character over perfect tuning and volume. We aim to help each other with our own insight. Opinions I can get anywhere, So.... what's your perspective? Cheers John

hi and welcome to Songstuff

Highway to Hell - AC/DC

Welcome to Songstuff G

Hi and welcome to Songstuff! I moved your post from the testimonials thread to a new topic on the introduce yourself board as it seems more fitting. Space is very limited until you have more than 5 posts. So, 5 more posts and you will have the upload space.