[12 Bar Blues Cross Challenge #1]

4 hours ago, McnaughtonPark said:

ok, I think I see now.  It appears you are writing with a mixture of how the lines lay in the melody.  I can sing it now.

 

Its D day, we've signed our love away

Yeah its D day baby, we've signed our love away

You've taken everything I own, Now I ain't got no place too stay

 

 

That is it

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[12 Bar Blues Cross Challenge #1]

8 hours ago, McnaughtonPark said:

I'm game, sounds like a great exercise!

 

Don't Let 'Em Rock Your Roll

 

Do you wanna know me woman

Know what makes me blue

Wanna know me woman

Know what makes me blue

That list goes on for miles, lord

Just from missin you

 

Ya' gotta raise my child woman

Raise him up and strong

Won't ya' raise my child, woman

Raise him up and strong

He don't know the world yet

Try'n a do him wrong

 

I'm up here in this jailhouse woman

Time gonna take it's toll

Up here in this jailhouse woman

Damn sure take it's toll

But don't let nobody rock my baby

Don't let 'em rock your roll

Now thats a cool blues lyric

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[12 Bar Blues Cross Challenge #1]

15 hours ago, Skin said:

Just my opinion but I thought the " put me on ice" seemed rushed? Like you tried to cram it in?

You know I'm no musician but thats what I thought.

 

I think I might be out of my depth with this challenge as I dont really know blues or much else for that matter when it comes down to music styles and how they should be structured I just put pen to paper and hope it comes out right.

 

Cheers for your comment and always appreciated as you know.

 

Good luck

Les

 

 

Hey Les I thought that too Probably drop the  "then" , "Promised me passion steamed me put me on ice"

 

You can't be out of depth with blues structure its pretty simple.

 

Use the university of the radio, go and get a 12 bar blues song like hound dog and rewrite the words then the form will click real quick.

 

I did that the other week to write sonnets I just got some old William stuff and started to rewrite it and I got the idea fairly quickly.

I found they took a long time to do once I worked out how it was done, because of all the restrictions of the form. But once I had done the rewrite 

I was able to do a couple that I need to do for this play thing. So I say go print out hound and rewrite to that structure. 

 

The point of the exercise is, I guess, to understand what the form is then fiddle with it.

 

I actually was surprised at the result music wise because forms like blues can be pretty same same, so I deliberately didn't resolve the chord sequence 

like a traditional blues thing. I think I finish on the V chord instead of the I, and I thought this is going to sound hanging there and weird but it didn't. Now i see from looking at blues derivations that Lennon McCartney did this 50% of the time. I also chucked in an extra chord. 

The straight sequence is first, fourth, first, fifth, fourth, first.

I       I      I      I 
IV    IV    I     I
V     IV     I     I

So In the key of D which mine is.

Its D G D A G D 

But I chucked in an extra chord F#m and finish on the A instead of the D and I've got Em in my B part which isn't standard either.

 

What is important about learning a form is then looking at the way good song writers then muck with the form, some of them so much that unless your paying close attention you don't know it's the form. 50 Years on I have just realise a song "The word" I think off Revolver is 12 bar blues. 

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[12 Bar Blues Cross Challenge #1]

5 hours ago, Skin said:

Cheers I will look at this some more tonight.

Thanks 

 

Les

Well Ive done my basic structure now just got to tart it up a bit write the riff and do some harmonies.

I put a link on the post.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[12 Bar Blues Cross Challenge #1]

Hi les

you got to leave room or the lead guitarist will not be happy. I think they get about 45 to 50 percent of the bar space for their blues riff. 

This looks to me to be 12 bar blues half measure which is six bars, it's a variation but I think it's ok to do that. 

 blues has an a and a b part but it's not like we normally mention parts because it's all part of the verse / refrain section. So you can say the verse has motive A and motive B and if you want you can do a B section like in Bluberry Hill. But if your doing half measures you gotta do 6 verses or 4 verses a  6 bar B part and a 6 Bar coda. 

Im hearing it like this which is 12 bar half measure. 

Well its D day, signed the papers today

Yea it's D day. Signed our marriage away 

there's nothing left for us to say

we signed our love away.

 

if you want to check 12 bar half measure you can sing it to Lennons Yea blues 

which from memory is that. 

 

What your doing is 8 bar and that ain't a variation of 12 it's it's own thing I think. 

 

Also in the blues there there is a refrain line that's the same in every verse and it can be any of the lines 

 

so it's like it's D day, 

I gave that woman every breath

it's D day ( desolation baby)

i gave that woman every breath

 

hey the BVs just stole the lead break space 

but you get the idea 

 

cheers

 

Gary 

 

 

 

 

[12 Bar Blues Cross Challenge #1]

Hi John

A great way to take my mind of things as I sit here with a hot wheat bag on my back. :-)

Here is my go at a 12 bar lyric.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

Window Shopper

© Gary Yeomans 2016

 

Find me the doorway I gotta get out of here

Find me the doorway I gotta get out of here fast

She was a window shopper, liked to shop around 

I was so easily fooled, selfishly used  

 

Promised me passion, steamed me then put me on ice

Promised me passion, steamed me then put me on ice fast

She was a window shopper, looked but never touched

I was so easily fooled, selfishly used  

 

 

I tried to buy her, she cashed me in then sold out 

I tried to buy her, she cashed me in then sold out fast

She was a window shopper, bargain hunting girl 

I was so easily fooled, selfishly used  

 

Here is the basic tune no intro no lead break etc. 

its private so you gotta press this secret link

[Lyrics? Melody? Which One First?]

It used to be simultaneously for me, but now it's lyrics first.

[Lyric Or Music? A Poll For Everyone & Their Dog]

Music is the most important, which is hardest depends on your natural talents.

Having said that a properly crafted lyric combined with basic music theory determines 80 percent of the music content.

The groove the speed the chord pattern are pretty much proscribed by the lyric. Melodic tension and release also, theory has its cadences to be dealt with, types of pattern repetition so there are only a few notes to actually put in out of choice.

Cheers

Gary

[Melody Thief!?!?]

If you write enough songs you are going to make a mistake something is going to come out if your subconscious and end up in a song.

If it does it's not a big deal if it's unintentional. The infringed party is going to get a share of the royalties. Which is fair so it's only a drama if you are in denial. If you had access to the infringed work and it's substantially similar then you need to come to an agreement. And try to stay out of court.

Look at Lennon's result as apposed to Harrison's.

So I don't worry about it. Other than if someone points out that it sounds like something else and if I agreed I would imeadiately take it down.

But that has never happened.

Cheers

Gary

[How Long Does It Take You To Write Lyrics?]

I only stick with a first draft lyric if it's right.

If it's nearly right I will amend it in the studio as I record.

My editing is less than it used to be.

I never start a lyric I can't finish.

I allways right in one sitting.

Cheers

Gary

[Don't Have A Name Yet]

Verse

I am just a simple guy

Some say dumb I don't know why

Could it be that I can't read the forum rules

Yea that's must be it am I a fool

Chorus

Yes yes yes I'm an idiot

Yes yes yes I'm an idiot

Yes yes yes I'm an idiot

Now Gary that's childish stop it.

Yes I know but I promised myself I'd never grow up.

Yea well talking to yourself is not Normal.

[Free Online Song Writing Course @ Berklee October]

The next free online course starts in October here is the link.

https://www.coursera.org/course/songwriting

Do it!

Cheers

Gary

[I'm Doing A Course]

Hi Lisa

I also got 92 % for my last assignment , I don't know what I got for the course, I thought the results were out on the 12th. I did a quick calculation and figured I would have done enough to get a certificate. Pat is coming to sydney in January I am going to do a weekend seminar, so that should be good.

The only thing I am really having difficulty with is phrasing. Like to do the back heavy and get back onto the main beats for the strong words and still have it sound natural. At the moment I am working up a proper recording of my week six assignment. I hope to be finished by Friday. I actually printed out sheet music to the lead line so I could look at the phrasing. I think after two hours working on the second verse when I finally got it right I sort of got better at it. I am hoping to fix the first verse in about ten minutes. One of the things is you sing something one way and then you have to do it another and it is difficult to get right. I feel quite positive about the course despite the winges about peer review. I think I might now punt out some ok songs.

I have just gone and looked at the results how can you get 104% a percent is a percent is it not.

I guess they are song writers not mathematicians. I think I got extra for doing coaching on the forums.

Are you doing your assignment as a song to post?

Cheers

Gary

[Advice For A Beginner]

Hi Mary

There are several issues you have brought up.

One is development of ideas. One other is writing the melody.

I recommend you take the free on line music course at Berklee, there should be one coming up in a couple of months.

In the meantime If you go to this thread http://forums.songstuff.com/topic/31137-im-doing-a-course/ and scroll down to post number nine you will find my lecture notes on song idea development. Basically you have three boxes. You write an explanation of your idea including what the hook is. You decide what the perspective will be. Who is talking to whom. You decide on a developement engine. The simplest ones to start are time line and point of view.

Lets say you choose time line. In box one you write this is happening in the past. In box two this is happening now and in box three this will happen in the future. Or i hope it will. So now in box one you say this is my idea it is set in the past. You then go to your five friends. Their names are:

What

Who

Where

When

Why

Now why is the main dude he goes in box three. So just write a paragraph of why your idea has happened.

Now in your past and present box ask what happened in the past to who where did it happen.

Do the same thing for your present and future boxes.

Now you can just go ape write all sorts of things because you can refer to you boxes and say am I on message. This gives you the freedom to write without fear of getting lost.

If you go to this thread the first post is my assignment on song developement.

http://forums.songstuff.com/topic/31183-an-adjunct-to-im-doing-a-course/

Now between this planning stage and melody writing there are several lyric writing steps and decisions you need to make and things you need to do.

If you do all of these correctly the tune will almost write itself. It is essential to have some sort of DAW simple is ok and a cheap midi key board.

Even if you are writing on a guitar. This is because there are specific notes that need to go in specific places and when you strumm and sing you gravitate to the three notes of the chord you are paying. So you need to be able to see the notes on piano roll or stave if you read music.

Because this is a process there is no point in going into it all here, but if you want to give it a go sometime I am quite happy to take you through it step by step. In the meantime get on to coursera website and book in for the next Pat Pttinson course.

Cheers

Gary

[I'm Doing A Course]

Ok so it's over and we are just waiting for the results.

I modified the front post and added my last assignment.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[I'm Doing A Course]

Week five was a lot of revision really there were so many videos to watch. After five weeks we've finally discussed music but not in much depth.

The quizzes this week have really been screwed up. The answers are just plain wrong. And the scoring is weird. The course work this week was quite a lot with a full song to write. The one musical concept discussed that was interesting was using stable and unstable notes on particular words to suit prosody. 

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

Hi Gary,

 

Yes I agree, the way you sang it the emphasis is on Scraped, but it is barely imperceptible.

 

I like the song by the way. You could really do something with this if you have the inclination.

I like the chorus and the middle eight but there are parts of the verse I'm not fussed about.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

Hi Gary,

 

I was saying "scraped knee" to myself and for me the stress is on the knee. How we each talk in conversation will affect stressed syllables a lot. And this is where maybe you are both being marked down by peers who don't speak English as a first language, or perhaps just differently to how you guys speak. I've heard Lisa but I haven't heard you speak. I always mention the local accent variations when I talk about stressed syllables.

 

Not a criticism, simply an observation.

 

Cheers,

Kel

When I sang it scraped Knee it sounded weird. I wrote it like that then changed it to Scraped Knee.

I think it's because there is a rush of words it sort of "Knee-and"

Anyway have a listen and see what you think.

I think all the ESL's have gone by now. So the marking issue is just middle of the road ticking without really bothering to read the work.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

Done with 20 hours to spare.

 

Assignment five

 

In this assignment, you will create a new song, based on the process outlined in the week 5 video lectures, including developing your song idea using boxes, creating a worksheet of rhyming words that can support your idea, writing the various song sections, creating melodic rhythm for the lyric lines, and generating melody for the sections. 

Fellow students will evaluate your assignment based on the criteria below. Use them as a checklist in reviewing your own work. 

• The title moves well through the boxes and gains more meaning each time.
• The most important idea (the why of the song) appears in the last box.
• Each box contributes a further development of the title clearly. 
• The worksheet uses several rhyme types for each key word.
• The rhyme schemes of each verse are the same.
• The number of lines in each verse is the same.
• The rhythms of the verse lines match from verse to verse (line 1 of verse one with line 1 of verse 2, etc.).
• The lyric rhythm and melodic rhythms match.
• The melodic rhythm places the most important ideas in the strongest positions.
• The melody creates contrast between different sections, e.g., verse/chorus, verse/bridge, etc.
• The melody uses stable and unstable tones to create prosody.

 

Submission

 

 

 

The song title is "All in the way you fall" The development engine is timeline. The point of view is direct address.

 

Box one: The past. When you were small I could fix all your problems easily. You wont hurt yourself so much when you fall rollerblading etc. if you know how to fall properly.

It’s all in the way you fall.

 

Box two: The present. Your first love and first heartbreak is not as easy to fix as a scraped knee. But you won’t hurt so badly if you know how to fall out of love.

It’s all in the way you fall.

 

Box: Three: The future. You will not have to worry about taking risks with your heart. Because you know you can pick yourself up and dust yourself off. The most important idea the why of the song: If you know how to fall you can take more chances and succeed more, you will have less fear of Failing, because you will know.

It’s all in the way you fall.

https://soundcloud.com/snabbu/week-5-assignment-all-in-the

 

All in the way you fall

© Gary Yeomans2013

 

Verse

It lays me low to see you weep

I can recall when to hold you could fix anything  -

From a scraped knee to bogyman dreaming

I know it’s not the time for lessons to keep, or making a speech

But there’s something I want you to know

 

chorus.

It’s all

It’s all

It’s all in the way you fall

All in the way you fall

 

Verse

Now love has come and cut you deep

I know that words at this time cannot heal everything

It’s all right crawling fallings hard going

You know that your life with lessons to teach, is sharing what’s real

And there’s something it wants you to know

 

chorus.

It’s all

It’s all

It’s all in the way you fall

All in the way you fall

 

Bridge

Never stop taking chances

Don’t let this stop you making plans

Never start building fences

Don’t let this chain or tie your hands

 

chorus.

It’s all

It’s all

It’s all in the way you fall

All in the way you fall

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

Hi Lisa

It must be difficult trying to fit something into a loop your quite constrained.

The chorus sits in there well. The verses have the occasional place where it's not quite sitting in the rythem.

I have the same issue and it has now dawned on me to edit the lyric in that spot to smooth it out.

So I will try that this morning. You know how we talked about single word nouns all being stressed I think I've found an exception.

That is where you have two words together which are quite often paired like an adjective and a noun. For example "scraped knee" going by the theory both should be stressed, but because they are like a common saying. They sort of become a defacto multi syllable word. With scraped being stressed but the noun knee being unstressed. I am hoping to do my edit this morning upload to sound cloud and submit. With about 20 hours to spare.

Then I can look at this weeks stuff. There seems to be a lot less videos this week.

I wonder how many of the sixty five thousand are left after this week.

Cheers

Gary

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

This is as final as I can get. I've had about 5 different versions. 1 on the Latin loop (really!) but this reggae loop suited the beat, melody, and key so I went with it.

 

Box 1: Daredelil son wants thrills he can't get at home. speed, skydiving - excitement

Box 2: Dad fails to get the bull riding championship and wants his son to follow in his footsteps. "Cover The Bull" is a rodeo term when you ride a bull for 8 seconds and win!

Box 3: As the son grows up he wants to respect his father's wishes and comes home to ride the bull named Destiny

 

"Cover the Bull"

http://soundcloud.com/lisagates/cover-20the-20bull-20final

 

any minor suggestions would be helpful but this assignment is due on Monday 8/26 so I won't be able to do any major rewrites...

thanks,

Lisa

There is not much time to do anything much now as it due in soon. Make sure you,ve done your key word list.

From listening I didn't hear any major wrong stresses which is the main deal here for this assignment. So it should be ok.

I got a crap score from mty last one too. Someone said my chorus was all over the place which it is I guess being unstable.

I didn't feel comfortable using unstable for a chorus. It feels wrong. I got a 2 for preserving the natural shape of the language.

Most of the ones I marked were almost perfect mostly 5 with the occasional 4. I had a look at my stresses for which I got a 3 and as far as I can tell they are exactly right. I mean I used that understanding to do my peer reviews and gave nearly all fives. So this must mean it's their understanding and mine is te same. I think you needed to take a bit of time grading this one and if we got lazy reviewers then they would just whizz through ticking the half way mark.

I mean the work load this week has been fairly heavy so I suppose you are going to spend your time doing your own stuff first and just flick through your marking so you can get a score. Did you get any individual comments on the sections. I found if I gave someone less than a perfect score I did a comment like "I is a personal pronoun and you have it marked as stressed or whatever" I didn't get any comments like that. So if it is wrong I don't know why.

I think doing the peer reviews is usefull because it reinforces your understanding of the topic and gives you practice at whatever the task is. What you get back is less useful because whoever s marking it sometimes has less clues than you do. So it's not really all that helpful.

Good on you for getting the assignment done with two days to spare.

Cheers

Gary

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

Gary, do we have to have an unstable verse and stable chorus? I don't see that in the assignment! Did I miss something? Cause I just realized that I missed a quiz in week 4! I didn't see it! Geez!!! I need the best score I can get from the peers...Week 4 peer reviews only gave me a 14 (I didn't score anyone that low!) but had really positive comments. One even raving about the lyrics. I got another follower on Soundcloud from this week too. Sweet!

Lisa

No just that when pat was doing his hobo wind he discussed if it should be stable or un stable and when he was doing the melody notes he talked about it again. So I just did the same thing.

Cheers

Gary

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

Ha Ha! I got 9/8 too. then I looked at the answers I got wrong and went back to correct them...then I got 17/8!! I am awesome!! lol

I went to the discussion forum and everyone was in an uproar about it. The challenge with this weeks quiz was to know if you were in the major or minor part of the chords...really opened my eyes. I haven't finished this weeks assignment. I have a melody but none of the loops match it so far. I'm still trying.

This has made writing hard. Taking the tools (not rules) and making them all come together is going to make it well worth the hard work don't you think? When things come easy I am too likely to take it for granted but if I work hard for it and actually get something out of my hard work then, BAM! it is worth it.!

Well I got frustrated with it. But I do have an unstable verse and a stable chorus. I really didn't use a lot of the words on my work sheet in the end. I do have a bridge a beginning a middle and an end. I just expected to knock it off in a couple of hours but I got confused about the natural shape of the language, and started secon guessing the stresses. Like if someone saw me stomping around my garden saying "bogy man dreaming" over and over they may have called the little white van.

Still we will see how good it is when it's done. I guess that's what matters.

Cheers

Gary

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

Hey Gary,

My Peers didn't do so badly this week. I thought it was going to be so hard but most of us got it....

how did yours go?

Lisa

Mine were all good too I think the dross has probably dropped out.

I am up to putting this weeks to music but I am not sure i will get it finished.

This has made song writing quite hard work.

Man there were a lot of videos something is wrong with the second quizz I got 9/8 for it. Wierd.

Cheers

Gary

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

It makes me feel so good to see the topic of accents ---or syllable stresses--- being discussed recently. An excellent lyricist must ---IMO--- master the nuances of stress.

 

Whenever I've been asked to explain lyric stress to someone, I expose them to this little example I made up (using a bit of a song that everybody knows, Michael Jackson's "Billy Jean").

 

NOTE: Both lines use the exact number of syllables, both use three-syllable names of females, and the lines are roughly similar in content... (And though "Billy Jean" is not what I'd call a stellar example of good stress, it is certainly satisfactory, IMO.)

 

Here it is...

 

 

First, SPEAK the original line... "Billy Jean is not my lover..." A simple sentence... Nothing wrong with it...

 

Now SPEAK the substitute line... Melissa never did come back... Again, a simple sentence... And again, nothing wrong with it...

 

Conversationally, these lines are equals.

 

Now... SING the famous line...

 

Bil-ly Jean is not my lov-er

 

Great... Feels good... Sold to umpteen millions...

 

Now sing my replacement line to the same melody....

 

Mel-is-sa nev-er did come back

 

 

Screech!!! Positively awful! I doubt even MJ could've sold that.

 

The stress pattern of the second line is in diametric opposition to the music. The speech of the line says...

 

Mel-is-sa nev-er did come back

 

But the music forces it to sing...

 

Mel-is-sa nev-er did come back

 

EXACTLY opposite...

 

 

Just a simple example to show that "You can't just slap words on top of notes."

 

Exactly