JordanNickname

Great read, I learned a lot. Thanks

Made me feel like a daft school boy.

Hello there Lazz I get the impression that you grow tired of answering this sort of wet-eared, ill educated, juvenescent topic. I appreciate the response none the less. I am going to go through this paragraph by paragraph, I wasn't expecting such a passionate and lengthy response. Referring back to my original post, I suppose I should have explained what I had meant by "classic" I used it as how one would use "typical" or perhaps "commonly used" I didn't mean to suggest that great songs with a traditional folk-format don't exist: only that the overuse and misuse of the forms becomes tiresome (pop song writing.) I apologize for my extra "n" I hope this error has not lessened your opinion of me, again I didn't expect such a well formatted and thought out response. From now on I shall try and post with the utmost attention to grammatical law. I definitely agree with your point about musical architecture, and understand that with every lyric there is a paired musical composition. When I posted this debate I had a main goal in mind, it was to garner an opinion on contemporary song writing and maybe learn of ways I could avoid cliche in my structuring. I guess when I spoke of an abstraction it was more of a theoretical abstraction and not something that I had thought of achieving personally, so I hadn't considered the union between lyric and instrumentation and thus missed this keenly observed flaw in the idea of structural abstraction. Thank you. " Currently I see a huge ignorance and denial of songwriting tradition and instead a conviction that the randomness and accidents of un-tutored stumbling constitute ‘innovation’, that we can write entire novels without understanding syntax or being able to form a coherent sentence, and that it is in effect possible to run like the wind before we learn how to walk. " In reference to this quote could you give an example of an artist like this. I get the impression that you believe I resent folk forms or technical songwriting practices, which I don't, I was just looking for a way to write a "novel" differently not necessarily without regard to "syntax" (structure.) Thank you for pointing me towards Burt and Hoagie. Very interesting stuff upon a first spin/read I intend to study them more. Oh and by the way I am glad I asked because you will never learn unless you do right? I appreciate the educational if not slightly grumpy reply Thanks, Jordan

Hello there ladies and gents, I am starting this topic in hopes to stir an intelligent debate about the structures of songs. Lately I have been pondering the basic song writing structure, (verse, bridge, chorus)I was just thinking about how that if you were to compare music to painting or sculpture you could draw a lot of connections with how they developed throughout the eons of measurable time: Painting and sculpture at one point was about preserving classicism and a reference to the great masters (Raphael, Michelangelo, Da Vinci etc.) Music experienced a similar period where composers all strove to emulate the masters of music (Beethoven, Mozart, Bach etc.) Basically what I'm getting at is from my experience in music (as a general music enthusiast) I've noticed that is rare to see any deviation from the "classic" song structure. Do you think that We are in an era of preserving classicism and like with art songwriting will go through a phase of abstraction? (not to say that bands aren't doing some pretty unique things currently) Do you think there will always be a place for the traditional methods or will this current cannon of lyricism will pass? And if perhaps you know of some artists that are turning the traditional idea of writing on its head please feel free to point me in their direction because I am a big fan of innovation.