May I ask for an opinion?

[davlan]

May I ask for an opinion?

I bought a £5000 computer from Carillon which didn't work and had to be returned to factory twice. It took six months from ordering to receive a computer that was in usable form. Carillon were fast to respond to all the myriad problems and did install all my software free of charge but is this enough? I have personally spent considerable man hours trying to resolve the difficulties with the unit. Maybe 16-32 hours in total. And I have been setback for 6 months. Mucho stress and inconvenience. There are still some outstanding issues which I will have to resolve personaly - broken dongle , faulty floppy drive.

Should I be asking for compensation? If so, how much?

Cheers

[Marc]

The company won't offer you anything more than what you bought and what was part of the deal and the contract. Unless... you start making some noise and tarnish the name of the company, but that requires a lot of work. Going to court for problems like that is much hassle as well.

The only reasonable compensation they can accord you is another computer while yours is getting fixed. And I wonder why this service wasn't granted to you in the first place.

The 16... 32 hours of resolving has a pretty wide and debatable margin. And the 6 month setback cannot be established objectively with the cause.

Let it go. If you can be re-imbursed, then it's probably the best thing you can do to ease your mind: they won't get the sale -- it's the best way to express your spite. It'll feel better after.

[Didier]

Hi,

I agree with Marc.

The one thing you didn't mentionned: did they extend the guaranty for the 6 months the machine was not usable?

If not, that's usually one of the few things you can (should) negotiate.

Didier

[davlan]

Phoned trading standards who advised that I  might b liable for some sort of compensation but would I have to be specific about what I eant and why it is appropriate. I have asked for either £300 or a free upgrade of an external hard drive (£250).

I'll wait and see what they say!

[davlan]

Oh and thanks for your replies.

Cheers guys

[john]

Dave

I got £750. And mine cost £4000.  

You shoulda held out for more. Did you mention that you'll be writing about your experience on Songstuff.com?

Cheers

John

[BongStuff]

Geez I'm really sorry to hear about these troubles. But, and hell I hate to be smug, but did you ever have such hassle ( months of downtime ) with a traditional "analogue" studio?

Dave, I wish you all the best, but the question has to be asked...!?

  BS

[davlan]

Thanks for the replies. I have had a range of answers here and on another site. "You'll never get anything", Take them to the cleaners"

John I appreciate that I might have had a case for more cash but I'm not wanting to be greedy here. The law is apparantly clear that I can make a legal claim for lost earnings IF I can prove it. This is difficult at the beginning of one's "career".

The computer is running well at present with a slight instability of sound card software.  I'm inclined to think that this might only be resolvable with an update from Creamware. It results in non fatal crashes maybe twice a week. But this isn't so bad and with regular backups I've lost nothing.

Bong. Point taken but it makes no sense. The virtual studio has so many advantages that going back to my old analogue setup would be like going back to a banjo and tape recorder. I would miss:

1. Super sampler with almost limitless memory (think virtual orchestra in one box)

2. The entire studio saves to disk. (You can work on several projects easily at once)

3. The most advanced set of synthesisers and sound design tools I have ever worked with. Not to mention access to virtual copies of analogue classics - Pro 5, CS80

4. Easy digital sync and effortless video handling. This is an area that traditionaly demanded huge amounts of skill and time.

5. An incredibly advanced virtual studio.

6. Speed of work flow.

7. Massive upgradeability

Everyone who works in the audio end of the media industry works with computer based systems (Pro Tools, Audio Vision etc.) because of the power and speed. If I were using an analogue studio, with the ever decreasing deadlines and increased competition , I am not sure if I could compete!

The system was designed to work as a one stop audio DAW and as long as it works its brilliant.

[john]

Hey Dave

I don't think it's greedy. Apart from anything else, I spoke to their customer services manager, and it was his suggestion on any compensation. In fact, I never asked for anything. I didn't pursue it throught small claims court or anything like that. I just spoke to them and let them know I wasn't happy.

I didn't mean to seem smug, or money grabbing. As you point out, it has caused you great inconvenience, and possibly a loss of income. To go to court would not be successful if you have no proof of the impact, and it would be a lot of hassle.

Have you spoken to their Customer Services manager to see what he is willing to do to make you feel better about it?

I'm glad you've finally got your system up and running, and I can't wait to hear the results. I'm sorry you've had so much hassle with this system.

Cheers

John

[davlan]

Carillon just told me to bugger off!

I bought the machine with hardware only and installed my own software: here is a list of the problems I faced:

On receiving the unit in July 2003 I had the following issues quoted from my email to the company.

On receiving the unit.:

> >

> >1. The modem card was lying loose inside the computer casing with no sign

>of

> >a screw ever having been put in place.

> >

> >2. Floppy drive unoperational.

> >

> >3. No mouse or keyboard. Sent separately when I phoned.

> >

> >4. No keycaps. As above but then was dismayed to find that the keycaps,

> >costing £30, were plastic stickers.

> >

> >5. On installation of my software the machine became highly unstable; VST's

> >would stutter and glitch, and machine would hard crash within 2-3 minutes.

> >

> >6. The machine was very noisy.

> >

> >At this point you agreed to have the machine back.

> >

> >When the machine was returned it refused to boot. After I took it apart

> >and tested different components (with help from your phone support) it

> >appeared that the main board was dead. Part of the silent drive casings for

> >one of the drives was lying loose inside the machine and some of the

>cooling

> >fins on the CPU fan sink were bent. The machine was sent back again.

> >

> >On the second return my software had been installed and appeared to work

> >correctly. However within a few minutes the machine automatically shut down

> >because the CPU was overheating. After opening the machine up it appeared

> >the Fan Mate was unplugged and thus the CPU fan were was unoperational.

> >After resolving this the machine was fit for use. I still have the

> >following concerns.

> >

> >1. Cubase dongle casing had been cracked and the USB connector bent. While

> >it is still operational there is no guarantee as to its future reliability.

> >This can be replaced by Steinberg but there will be at least a weeks

> >turnaround.

> >

> >2. Floppy drive still unoperational despite being reassured to the

>contrary.

> >

> >3. The system is now usable but still prone to intermittent system

>failures.

> >e.g. Cubase cannot detect the Scope ASIO drivers and hard crashes every 2-3

> >days. These can be minimised by avoiding the Scope platform. For a £1700

> >soundcard this is frustratingly inconvenient.

> >

> >4. There is general evidence of rough handling. As well as the dongle there

> >was a dent on the rear casing. Supplied folders were ripped and appeared to

> >have been ill treated.

> >

> >5. The machine, while better, is still noisier than expected. This is

> >largely down to the Parhelia Graphics card having it's own built in fan.

> >While I appreciate that this cannot be resolved without changing the card I

> >was disappointed that this noise issue was not brought to my attention by

> >the sales team, who should have some knowledge of this as the Parhelia card

> >was advertised in your systems spec last year for a short period but then

> >withdrawn presumably because of the noise issue.

> >

> >The machine was ordered in June 2003 and was not operational until December

> >2003. That's six months.

Carillon have said that they respnded quickly to these problems as and when I told them. They also installed all my software for free and that they are not resonsible for software misbehaviour that I installed. But I am claiming for my time with regard to hardware failure only! THere response to the hardware issues was that I was UNLUCKY! (Some suggestion was made that these problems arose in transit!) They say that the six month period is invalid as if I had been quicker to contact the company I would have been up and running quicker. But these machines are complex and it takes time for these issues to come to light. If I were a trained engineer carrying out a quality check I might have been faster to respond. But surely this was there job. I'm going to try again restating my case. I'll have to go over my emails and try to establish the exact number of times I had to pull the thing out the rack, open it up, check it out and then close and reinstall into the rack.

Frustrated

[BongStuff]

Bong. Point taken but it makes no sense. The virtual studio has so many advantages that going back to my old analogue setup would be like going back to a banjo and tape recorder. I would miss:

< long list of DAW features deleted >

Hey I would never disagree with any of that. My only point was that when a centralised system breaks, everything breaks. At least in a more traditional studio if one of my synths breaks down I can still do music.

Anyway, that's all by the by. Carillon really sound like they're either understaffed or a bunch of cowboys. I suspect the former. To me you're entitled to at least a 6 month extension to the warranty, and a replacement CuBase dongle!

  BS

[Guest olggu]

May I ask for an opinion?

I bought a £5000 computer from Carillon which didn't work and had to be returned to factory twice. It took six months from ordering to receive a computer that was in usable form. Carillon were fast to respond to all the myriad problems and did install all my software free of charge but is this enough? I have personally spent considerable man hours trying to resolve the difficulties with the unit. Maybe 16-32 hours in total. And I have been setback for 6 months. Mucho stress and inconvenience. There are still some outstanding issues which I will have to resolve personaly - broken dongle , faulty floppy drive.

Should I be asking for compensation? If so, how much?

Cheers

Let me get this straight: You buy Carillon computer from Carillon Ultra Quiet Computer Systems, which cost 5000£ and  that P.O.S didn't work, it was poorly installed and there have been lot of difficulties with it ?

HAH!....sorry about that...

First of all; that is shitload of pounds for computer, which really haven't anything else specialities than low noise. Those components which are included in that system you can buy with about 1000-1200€ so there is still quite a bit to spend for silent case and other things.  That is one super expensive PC, I can tell you that...

With that amount of money you should get much more than that and at least you should get better service...You should make official complaint to nearest consumer adviser to get some compensation; You should sue those bastards just because they sell shit to you with enormous price...

I bet I can put together system with all those components, without any noise, and which is working like clock; all this just for a half of that price...

[davlan]

Olguu

In fairness half the cost goes on a 15 DSP soundcard, 16in/out breakout box.(Which turns the computer into a virtual mixing desk. The computer is very high spec and the cost is about par with other music computer retailers. I went to a specialist to avoid all the hassle!!?? : If I had avoided it would have been reasonable value.

D

[Guest olggu]

Olguu

In fairness half the cost goes on a 15 DSP soundcard, 16in/out breakout box.(Which turns the computer into a virtual mixing desk. The computer is very high spec and the cost is about par with other music computer retailers. I went to a specialist to avoid all the hassle!!?? : If I had avoided it would have been reasonable value.

D

And what kind of specialist you have find! You find a moron which couldn't install computer, but who send it to you with all those errors, with too much noise, and more than that; they have dropped it on the floor(which is only way to explain those dent's and twisted parts). All this you get without any really guarantee what so ever...That, my friend, that is rip off...You should go to war against those bastards with  consumer-ombudsman, not for the lost money, but because that quality of machine and service doesn't match with that money and time which you have spend to that deal and to get that machine working. In that amount of money they should deliver you perfect, flawless computer, and if that haven't happened, they owe you some compensation anyway, so make sure you get it. Best way to do it is take this matter to the local consumer-ombudsman or consumer adviser and make official  reclamation...In European Union we have laws about  product liability, which make those crooked assholes  responsible of that product no matter if there is any guarantee left or not. And by the way, if you did make a deal with some local reseller, you should ask from Carillon's head office if this what you are facing is their official politics for customer service...that have work for me in some cases...

[Steve]

It's my opinion that Carillon are the loosers here. The bad press they have recieved here does nothing for customer confidence! It takes years to build a good name in a business, it takes only minutes to destroy it...! And here we have 2 unhappy customers...

[john]

Yep, it's pretty sad....and annoying.

Sorry Dave

[davlan]

Thanks for the votes of sympathy chaps. The whole things been depressing me a bit. But I have a working computer!  I'm going to try one more time to make my case (will be a pain in the ass as I have to go through my emails and try to accurately evidence all the times I had to open up and workon the machine). Unfortunately been kinda busy recently (getting married next week!)

Best

Dave

[Steve]

Congratulations!

Are you sure you're getting your priorities right here?...