Please Help Me

[Dee]

...what I think others have been trying to tell me.

Ok is a very basic explanation of scansion this:

if the first line of v1 has five syllables, then should first line v2 have five syllables and so on?

I know that there is a topic about scansion but it went way over my head! I know I probably sound stupid but I like things explained to me simply.

I'm about to post a song on Lyric Critique and have gone through it, editing it so that it is as consistant as it can be - apart from the middle bit of v3 which I can't shrink any more otherwise it wont sound right.

It's called - A Dozen Ways to Dump a Lover

Ta

Dee

[thepopeofpop]

...what I think others have been trying to tell me.

Ok is a very basic explanation of scansion this:

if the first line of v1 has five syllables, then should first line v2 have five syllables and so on?

Well, that's a start. Imagine you were working with someone who wrote music. Let's say that they've written a great little melody and they need some words for it. They'd expect that you would be able to fit the words over the melody exactly. They don't want to have to change the melody or the rhythm so that your words fit.

However, there's good scansion and bad scansion. Your lyric might have the right number of syllables but the words still might not fit correctly. When we speak we only emphasise (or "stress") certain syllables in words. Your lyrics need to take this into account, otherwise your words will sound forced and unnatural. So, scansion is not only about syllables but also about getting the stressed and unstressed syllables in the right places.

For example, in the word "syllable" the stress is on the first syllable. So like this: SILLLL-ah-bul. If you used the word "syllable" and you were stressing the middle syllable, then it would be like this: sil-AHHHHH-bul, which would be awkward.

Also, if the scansion is bad then it makes it harder for a listener to understand the words.

Imagine reading your lyric like a poem. That's a good way to start. Can it be easily read? Does it flow well? Imagine some kind of music behind it - does it fit?

Edited January 27, 2011 by thepopeofpop

[Retrosaurus Rex]

Sorry I haven't read your song, it probably won't happen soon...

about scansion... it's simple, but not as simple as just counting syllables, altho that can be a good place to start when something seems off. The scansion topic actually goes pretty deep. You were probably thrown off by the description of different types of rhythmic feet; you probably don't need to memorize all that right now, and you certainly don't have to memorize their names unless you really want to... but the important thing to take away from the discussion is an understanding of how the placement of stressed syllables interacts with the overall meter of the piece. Basically, you want to avoid having the meter of the piece force stress onto a syllable that would be unstressed in normal speech. Another thing to remember is that you don't have to be too rigid with all this when writing a lyric. Often the melody will dictate some stretch & contraction in the syllable count, and that's OK. In fact, too much syllable counting can make your stuff start to sound like a nursery rhyme (or a naughty limerick, if that's your thing...).

Mostly it just takes practice. If you're a lonely lyric-only person without a composer to bounce ideas with, you can practice by writing new lyrics to an existing melody

[Retrosaurus Rex]

For those interested: http://forums.songstuff.com/topic/12259-scansion-a-basic-primer/

[Dee]

Thanks guys.

I am a lonely lyric writer so that tip about writing words to an existing melody is a good one. I'll give it a go.

Talk about syllables getting stressed - they're not the only ones!

Cheers

Dee

[john]

Awwww. don't stress!

Lyricists often write for a melody written already, in fact even if you are both a lyricist and a music writer often the melody writing comes first. So it's well worth getting into and sorting out. In fact probably one of the largest issues I see on the boards concerning lyricists is that lack of appreciation that songwriting is NOT poetry writing, and often that lack of appreciation as to how the lyrics and melody are interconnected. Similarly lyricists (especially lyricists only) don't really get that often lyrics come second in the writing process. If you have a working relationship with a music writer it is common that there is some going back and forwards between lyricist and music writer, but within popular music, when it comes to a choice, often the melody wins out.

So, definitely worth getting your head around is scansion. As said before it is a way to map melody with words. There is even a simple notation used in both poetry and lyrics writing. The most common system uses accents (slanted lines drawn above syllables) to indicate stressed syllables, breves (curved lines drawn above syllables) to indicate unstressed syllables, and vertical lines to separate each Foot (The smallest unit of rhythm in a line of poetry or song. In English-language, a foot is usually one accented syllable combined with one or two unaccented syllables).

in brief, scansion is the interplay of strong and weak syllables and strong and weak beats.

Notice the relationship between stressed and non-stressed syllables follows a basic pattern.

STRONG-weak STRONG-weak

Try reading this saying the bold syllables louder and at a slightly higher pitch than the non-bold.

Ma-ry had a lit-tle lamb

Lit-tle lamb, Lit-tle lamb

Ma-ry had a lit-tle lamb

Its fleece was white as snow.

It reads ok....

Now try it with this rhythm:

Ma-ry had a lit-tle lamb.

Lit-tle lamb, lit-tle lamb

Ma-ry had a lit-tle lamb

Its fleece was white as snow.

You'd stand out but people will stare lol

A simple example at how melody ties in... Imagine a very short melody with 5 notes, looking simply at duration (it is also volume, we are really looking at the stressed syllables):

a) short short short long short

short short short short long

And we want to use the lyric "I want to break free"

Firstly note that in this case the number of syllables matches the number of notes

For this a or b could work, although in conversational terms the last word "free" is the one more naturally stressed, so it would actually work best with melody b.

If we try the lyric "Call me anytime"

yet again note the number of syllables matches the number of notes. In this it would be more natural to stress the "time" of anytime, rather than the "nee" or "ay" (depending on your accent!) sound of anytime, so yet again this would suit melody B best

If we try the lyric "I need to change"

Note that the number of syllables doesn't match the number of syllables

Secondly note that the word change falls on the last two notes. this is a case where one syllable is spread over two notes and it is not covered by poetry scansion. If you split change over two notes it follows that one part of the word will be on one note and the other part on the other note...two notes, one syllable.

cha - nge is the natural emphasis of this word

that fits with melody A best as cha - nge (melody would be an unnatural emphasis on that word

An alternative here would be to spread the word "to" over two syllables and make "change" a single note... you might get away with it using melody B more easily than A because within a sentence the word "change" would be the naturally emphasized word.

the last case is where we have more syllables than notes in the melody... that's far harder to solve as it basically involves adding notes to the melody... true that can still be within the beat and so sounds ok, but it is a consideration.

I hope all that helps.

[john]

Fixed my previous reply lol

[FinnArild]

Very good post from John here - I would like to add some general advice: think less, listen and feel more. Read it aloud, record it and play it back - how does it feel? What does it say? If it feels off - try something else. Creativity is not like solving second-grade equations - there are no rules, only conventions which you are free to break. The challenge is to invoke emotion in the receiver. If you can make someone laugh, cry, smile, get angry, ... feel something - you know it is a good lyric.

Crying or laughing of your own lyric is usually a good sign - happened to me only a couple of times, but when it does it is great ...

[Dee]

Aw thanks guys.

Your help and advice is much appreciated.

I will persevere and hopfully there will be less of this and more of this

Cheers

Dee

[john]

I've started a poll about scansion

[john]

Hey Dee, how are you getting on with Scansion? I was thinking of writing an article on the topic, would that be useful?

[Dee]

Hi John

Yes I think it would be very useful - Scanison for Dummies may be a good title?

Seriously though it would help a lot.

I think I mentioned in a blog recently about showing my piano teacher the melody of a chorus I had written, and she talked about emphasis (I cringed and thought oh no not this again) and about writing music. Now my simple understanding of it is - the emphasis should fall on the first note after the bar in music? Is that right or am I talking nonsense or going off on a tangent?

I came home, moved the bars, changed the length of some notes and put rests in, all so it would fit in to a 4/4 time signature and although to me it sounded exactly the same as my first draft, apparently to her it sounded better. I want to add at this point I know I'm a beginner in this and a six week crash course in the piano will not get me very far, I just thought it would help and I think it might have.

Cheers

Dee

p.s. I don't know if this is a good thing or not but I've purchased a chromatic tuner only because when I sing, I'm not sure which note I'm singing and that's not helping me with my music writing much

[Lazz]

Dee.

Try not to overcomplicate it.

Only sheer simplicity makes it so elusive.

If you check out the FaceBook page for Berkleemusic Videos, and scroll down a wee bit, you can find a series called “Songwriting Tutorial”, Parts 1 – 4, in which Pat Pattison’s fine bed-side manner and attention to detail might be just the thing for helping you give sense to the idea.

I hope so.

It will be a real “Doh!” moment when you do get it, and realize you’re already a highly skilled practitioner with a life-time’s experience. I promise you. It’s the sound and feel of the rhythmic melody of the ways we speak quite naturally. That’s all.

I have never personally understood how and why the aspiring songwriter can remain unaware of these basic pulses which drive language – our professed medium – but I have come to accept that maybe it’s a partial temporary blindness that can be fixed – and that maybe it’s to do with a person being overly word focused without working their musical muscles and sensitivities in tandem.

So I think your crash course is a damn good move.

Absolutely the right way to go.

A first step.

More.

Now my simple understanding of it is - the emphasis should fall on the first note after the bar in music?

Less of a ‘should’, I think (because writers like to break ‘rules’ so there are lots of exceptions) – less of a ‘should’ than a simple observational acceptance of the fact that rhythmic music is always going to let us know quite clearly where ‘1’ is happening in each bar.

Why fight it?

Just sing your songs while stepping out their rhythm down the street

“One always needs to know where ‘one’ is” - anon.

.

[Dee]

Thanks for the advice Lazz. I'll take a look at that. I hoping the penny will drop soon - actually I'm hoping for a jackpot to fall out of a slot machine with bells and buzzers and flashing lights.

Dee

[Dee]

I've had a look at the Pat Pattinson tutorial and it has shed a lot of light on the matter!! I'm getting it. Not quite Ker-ching yet but my luck is improving.

cheers Lazz

Dee