Anyone Help Me To Understand Please ?

[justsoulin]

Everyone has their preference for software as in it's easy to use but missing some features or it's got loads of features and not easy to use.

But my question revolves around knowing which app will allow which additions whether they be VST's or say Sonic Reality Reason Refills. Since as I read Cubase, Logic, Soundforge, Reason, Reaper, Ableton etc etc etc, don't have a standard. Then you get BiaB, Magix, GarageBand (for Macs), Mixcraft.

It's easy enough to say that each one does a specific task or that Mixcraft doesn't compare to Cubase. It does to me. But what bugs me is not knowing what addons or plugins, when there's so many to choose from, will work with what.

This stuff is expensive and if for arguments sake you buy a version of CS5 because it's the only way to combine 2 or 3 of the full set of apps meaning you have to buy other apps to do the other tasks you need or want to do, it gets even more expensive!!!

So can some one please say which DAW's etc offer the best addon and plugin capability whether they be loops, virtual drum machines like iDrum etc, so that I can make a good decision and spend wisely. I want to be able, for now and the foreseeable future, to utilise my desktop through such programs to add virtual instrument tracks, loops, voice etc to get a half decent result for someone to understand and improve on.

My appreciation in advance for your help and advice

[Roflcopter]

I chose Sonar as a cheaper alternative to Cubase (also because my first experience with the creator of Cubase was very disappointing when they *downgraded* a version I got for free with a soundcard I bought, at the first opportunity to 'upgrade' it.)

This sort of covered my bases as a generic VST-loading program with some midi capability and multi-track engine.

Then I got Reason because it will let me do things VST's normally won't (under the hood nitty-gritty) yet I can just plug it into Sonar, and has a truckload of tools and sounds pretty unique to Reason.

Finally I got BiaB because it lets me do things with midi I can do nowhere else, plus a couple of other tricks that I would need very expensive software for, separately - some of which only became available much later - I don't use it like a lot of people do, like a background accompanying band-in-a-box, but more of a transposition engine.

All in all, not a cheap combo - and you still have to get a couple of add-ons in the sense of high-grade VST's - but then again, buying the top version of Cubase alone, was more expensive than this combo, so sod that

[Retrosaurus Rex]

I think you're mixing a lot of programs together in one toy-box and making the question harder than it really needs to be...

VST is pretty much the standard plug-in format for computer recording at this point, and unless you've got your heart set on using Pro Tools, you don't need to think about anything else for audio. All the major DAW programs including SONAR, Cubase, Reaper and many others, fully support the VST standard.

All the DAW programs save projects in a proprietary format, but a project can generally contain any of the standard file formats that are operative, such as WAV, MIDI, Acidized Loops, and many others.

Reason is a super-capable software instrument, and while recording capability is available as an add-on, most people use it as a plug-in within a DAW, as Rob described above. Refill is a proprietary file format that can only be opened by Reason.

BiaB is also a very useful program that saves projects in a proprietary format, but can also open and save as standard MIDI files. It has additional capabilities, but I mainly use it for MIDI, which I ultimately work with in SONAR.

I personally found SONAR to be the bang-for-the-buck leader as well. I know some people who find Reaper easier to work with, and I have one friend who uses Cubase because he swears VST handling is much more stable in that vs SONAR. I've never had a problem, so YMMV...

Are we helping?

[john]

I too use Sonar as my DAW. I more or less agree with the posts above, you're looking at lots of bits and trying to design a system rather than thinking what do I need to do, what solves that?

VSTs is a standard that a variety of media applications use, primarily there are two main categories of VST:

• VST - Audio effects
• VSTi - Instruments

VSTi is more or less a shorthand for VST Instrument.

[justsoulin]

Thanks guys, you're helping me to understand more. It really is confusing when there is so much choice and when you don't know about this stuff.

As I mentioned in my 1st blog, the help manuals don't help a complete novice. Up to now, through sheer determination, I managed to work out how iDrum works to create and play a song and export it as a WAV file. Then badly recording my singing to that beat I made an mp3. Then realising in Mixcraft I can line up both trax and then mix them and end up with a basic single output file. But I want to be better. I want to learn more. And for example, the library with Mixcraft is a bit limited and I began to look for more to add. That's led me to Reason etc which then has me thinking I can't use Reason refills in Mixcraft. But then I came across Magix Music Maker which seems to have a lot of library stuff across a lot of genre's. Then I looked to see what common problems are with it and adding the extra soundpools seems to be a major problem.

Maybe I am or maybe it sounds that I am

making the question harder than it really needs to be...

but from my viewpoint of coming into all this, it is baffling.

In our combined efforts in future SS projects etc and with all your help and direction, I want to know, understand and be able to mix and produce, add sounds etc. I want to know if I have strengths in the various fields of music that are yet untested for me. In my mind that means getting the right equipment and learning how it works. Remember back in the day when you may have been in my position? I'm guessing back then there's was not as many choices and options as there are in front of me.

you're looking at lots of bits and trying to design a system rather than thinking what do I need to do, what solves that?

I want, without being able now to play any instrument, to create music that fits the lyrics I write. And in that process learn how to use the software, learn about mixing, learn about producing etc.

You guys all seem to use Sonar. Let me take a look at that.

I really appreciate your replies, thank you

BTW, how come this post is a minus 1 ? How can wanting to understand and asking for help and advice be negative???

Edited June 16, 2011 by justsoulin

[john]

Sonar is a good start, they ave an entry level package. It has more functionality than you can shake a stick at, plus with experienced users here you know you will get direct support.

There are lots of good free VSTs, and some amazing paid ones. Check out the free VST advisory board. For paid ones just shout out and I'm sure you will get some great recommendations. You will usually get some free VSTs with your DAW package so it's worth checking what you get before you go shopping. For example Cakewalk Dimension Pro is an excellent VSTi, but depending which Sonar pack you go for you might get it as part of he package. Cakewalk's vocal VST processor is also really good btw.

I have no idea why you got a minus 1 rep.

[justsoulin]

Thanks John, will go do some homework and research.

I know that a language has come from the technology and perhaps I'm lacking in the techie talk lingo here a bit.

To me, what I want is simple - create songs through virtual instruments on the desktop, record, mix and produce an output file. It's the huge variety and choice, the incompatibility between software packages and not knowing or understanding if they will help me achieve what I want.

Searching other forums offers a multitude of differing and so somewhat confusing advice and the software websites just lose me in the way they explain what it does.

There's little on offer that doesn't make me feel a complete "Rodney". When you're starting out, it helps to have an ABC explanation and as I've found in life, so many people with the knowledge gratefully offer help and advice but speak in XYZ lingo.

So if someone said that based on what I want to do, Sonar will allow me to take virtual sounds, loops and instruments etc that I import into Sonars dbase of virtual sounds, loops and instruments and play them together to create a musical composition and output a wav file of that musical composition, that I can get ABC-wise. The virtual sounds, loops and instruments I want to use are referred to as VST's and VSTi's and that any such files can be used in Sonar. Certain other file types can also be imported into Sonar such as wav and mp3 files. As well as allowing me to compose the music, Sonar also gives me the ability to add various sound effects and to process any sound effects in many ways so that the final composition has a professional sound.

Then taking the Sonar composition file (as a wav), I can then add the composition as either a single track file or multi channel track file into Mixcraft to mix vocals etc. Then the final mix of music and vocals can be output from Mixcraft as a finished song.

Then I can focus on these two programs as I now know they will give me what I want. And I'm just using Sonar and Mixcraft as examples.

Perhaps Sonar does everything and so no need to have a Mixcraft, Magix Music Maker or BiaB. But since you guys have Sonar and one of the other "types" of program, then there's a need to have one. But what is it they do that Sonar doesn't?

As I progress thru this learning curve, I think I see a good reason to make my blog about all this, before I lose the ABC lingo lol.

Thanks again.

[Roflcopter]

I would just get started using only Sonar for a while, and record/mix/finalize with that. That should really keep you occupied for a while, and no real need for any external programs.

It may even take you 6 months daily study, and by that time you would appreciate more what certain other programs like Reason or BiaB or external VST's can do that this basic package does not cover, or does not do as well as you *can* get it, depending on your budget.

But trust me, 6 months of dedicated Sonar (only) use is maybe the best starting point, and should cover a lot of ground already.

[justsoulin]

Thanks Rob. I see different Sonar products. Producer, Studio, Essential, Home Studio etc.

Which do you recommend please.

[john]

I use X1 producer, but you can upgrade later I think

[justsoulin]

I'll try for that then John, thank you

[Roflcopter]

Producer here too - older version, but I never fell for the yearly update spiel. If it aint broke etc. But I did get the more complete package, and if you aim for serious use at one point, you might as well dig a bit deeper and save on the inevitable upscale costs later - my hunch is that quite a few people regret not going for the full package right away

[Roymega]

I use FL Studio 10 for all my instrumentals, and Cool Edit Pro for recording vocals. If you're looking for a user-friendly interface, FL Studio is your DAW and I've just used Cool Edit Pro because a lot of my friends that produce use it for vocals (keep in mind depending on which version of FL Studio you get you can record directly into FL Studio as well).

[justsoulin]

Thanks Ryan, good to know

[Prometheus]

BTW, how come this post is a minus 1 ? How can wanting to understand and asking for help and advice be negative???

I gave you a +1 to cancel out the -1...

I use Cubase Nuendo, a very old version, but it handles VST plugins. I think it was free with a sound card or something, I can't actually remember where I got it. Mixcraft and Reaper are both very cheap, you can download demos of them and I think they both handle VST plugins. If you look around with google, there are quite a lot of decent VST plugins available for free.

I use an old version of Fruity Loops as a drum machine. It's a demo version, so it's restricted in that it can't save patterns, but it still exports them as a *.wav, which is what I need it to do.

The one dodgy piece of Software I have is CoolEditPro, which I use for mastering. I didn't feel guilty about ripping it off because it's an ancient version and Syntrillium Software no longer exist.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Prometheus

[justsoulin]

I gave you a +1 to cancel out the -1...

Thanks Graeme

That's a really interesting collection too. Thanks for the input. I have Mixcraft and appreciate your mentioning it because I wasn't sure how versatile it was. I'll do some more delving into it and tweaking.

[Prometheus]

Thanks Graeme

That's a really interesting collection too. Thanks for the input. I have Mixcraft and appreciate your mentioning it because I wasn't sure how versatile it was. I'll do some more delving into it and tweaking.

I must say, I like Mixcraft, and the one I was using was an older version. I found it very intuitive and user friendly and pardon my language, but considering it costs next to nothing it really has f*cking good functionality.

If I was ever in a situation where the version of Nuendo I have wouldn't work, say after an OS upgrade or something like that, Mixcraft would definitely be on my short list when I was looking for a replacement.

[Prometheus]

Behringer's energyXT looks promising too for a low budget multitracker with good functionality.

[Dolce]

I appreciate that Sonar is an excellent DAW - in fact before I switched to Macs - I had Sonar Producer 8 - I want to suggest something else though - if you can't play an instrument well, Ableton Live is a brilliant platform. Even though I can play keys and guitar very well, sometimes I will make patterns utilising all the chords of a scale - just triads and sevenths maybe - also I will add a few borrowed chords for fun ( chords which belong to a different key). The neat thing about Ableton is that you have the chord patterns you have written, available at the click of a mouse - a bit like one finger chords I suppose - anyhow I find this can be a great tool to sing over. You haven't got to actually play anything, but it is like playing a very very easy instrument.

I also believe FL Studio has a command in which you can insert any kind of chord into your piano roll - Major-Minor-Augmented-Diminished-Minor 6th -Major 7th - etc etc

The neat thing also about Ableton or FL is that they support any VST. My favourite software instrument is Omnisphere.

[justsoulin]

if you can't play an instrument well

Fantastic post Dolce - the details you've given here are just the kind I'm looking for since the above statement is true for me and your advice about FL & Ableton is spot on for a simpleton like me (& Q5).

Thank you so much for finding this post and taking the time to reply (very happy)