Improving The Sound Of A Computer Program

[LINIROR]

Hi
I compose with the free program "MuseScore" because it is simple and I can write there notes.
Any suggestions how can I improve the sound ?

Thanks
Linir Or

[Kel]

G'day,

 

A midi program will always sound like a midi program. Some are better than others with "realistic" sounds. However, they are still midi programs and will never sound as good as a DAW that uses recorded loops.

 

If you like the ease MuseScore gives you for notation, be happy with that. Personally, I use GuitarPro, and have just accepted it will never sound as good as a DAW, but I can easily notate.

 

One thing you might try, is to include a real instrument into a mix by feeding the MuseScore produced midi file into a program such as Audacity. Even adding an acoustic guitar adds some realism to the final song. However, like me, you'll need to come to grips with the preference people have to hearing a vocalist. It seems a poor singer is preferred to a midi melody.

 

Cheers,

Kel

[john]

One thing to note is that a DAW will provide midi capability as well as audio parts. btw audio parts don't need to be loops.

 

As a midi musician I would recommend exploring the use of a DAW, or at least the combination of musescore with fruityloops or similar. Certainly loops will introduce you to new genres, from moby onwards. You can achieve a hell of a lot mixing midi with loops. To do so you need to break out of standard midi instruments and start using synth and sampler vsti instrument plug ins. Adding in a DAW you can include recorded audio, such as an original vocal line, or a single guitar part.

 

I will dig out some chillout electronica I recorded a few years ago that is all midi instruments, samples, loops etc with the exception of an occasional guitar part and the very obvious real vocals. that will give you an idea of what you can do. If you do not have either the voice or the recording gear, or the guitar abilities you can of course collaborate with other musicians, ask them to record the vocals or guitar and get them to send you the files which you can then include in your mix.

[TapperMike]

Not all DAW's or midi based recording software are created equal.  When recording to midi. As much has to do with midi resolution as using a proper sound library.  While GPro has an amazing RSE engine and uses a pretty darn good Coyote Forte dxi for the other sounds it's really not the same as others bring to the table. Which is why many like Biab have moved away from Coyote to Sample Tank. It also has moved up to a "super midi" meaning extremely high resolution.

 

With Band In a Box you chose a style (thousand and thousands to choose from) Enter chords and press play.  BIAB will then generate a backing track with drums, bass, keys, guitar and or more for you.  You can then record over the tracks or port them to midi for editing in a daw like Real Band which comes with BIAB.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH4MDdmWuS0

 

I used to use biab for light scoring then overdub the tracks on to an external hard disk recorder.  Now I'll only omit a few instruments and overwrite them. As a guitarist, bassist, ztarists I like to get my own playing in.  BIAB gets my foot in the door as far as composing and arranging much much faster then if I had to score everything manually.

[LINIROR]

Hi

thanks a lot, for all of you, for the replies.

i have 2 questions please:

2 is the sound of the violin in the film of the "Band in a Box "is created by the program because it sounds good(i did not understood if i can write notes to this sound in the program.

2 can i write notes for al the instruments in this program because i dont want to use already made chords

Thanks

Linir

[TapperMike]

Hi.  The "Real Instruments" are just that real instruments played by real musicians.  The are loops.

 

You can manually score everything if you send it to "Real Band" which is a daw that comes with biab.

 

How do you mean "already made chords" All  Chords are already made up, there are no new chords to invent.

Yes if you manually want to score everything in "Real Band" you can.  No if you manually want to score everything in Band in a Box manually you can't.

It's designed for creating songs using chords and styles.  Pick a style and then enter the chords. Band in a box will voice the instruments according to the chosen style.

[john]

Hi

 

Just to chime in with a general rule of thumb, no matter the exercise:

 

If you want more control, you generally lose simplicity

 

There are packages where you do get high levels of control, but the interfaces are relatively complex (sonar, cubase protools). These programmes tend to be highly specialist and indeed you generally need a DAW plus VSTi (plug in instruments) and or real instruments plus plug in VST effects. These tools are intended for producing production quality music.

 

Equally there are packages such as BIAB that is much simpler but the level of control is somewhat less and what you can do with the sounds and loops is more limited, but then these packages are more or less all-in-ones intended as quick demo writing software for non-techies and songwriters.

 

To create production quality music takes learning new skills. The traditional way before BIAB etc was to learn how to use a midi sequencer/DAW, how to programme a sampler (to get loops) and create and customize synth patches, plus learn how effects work and how to create a mix. If you want to create production music you still have to learn much of this... it's a matter of when. I'm a firm believer in "the sooner the better" as it takes time and practice to get good at it.

 

It is a steep learning curve and will cost you more, but nothing truly good is easy to get.

 

The biggest difference is that biab box music is very easy to spot. The same is true of most "accelerators" intended at shaving corners off the learning curve and improving the speed of creation. The reason is simple. Most users use the default loops and sounds. The benefit of speed is traded directly with your ability to have an individual sound. Sometimes the tools have enough versatility to be suitable for creation of production music, other times not.

 

So depending on your goals pick whichever is suitable. If you plan to make songwriter demos to picth to artists, be prepared to work within some limitations on what you can do. What they can do, they do well, and the quality has greatly improved over the years.

 

However if you plan to be "the artist", I recommend "paying your dues" by learning how to create finished, professional standard music, and that means learning the ins and outs of a good DAW and how to huse the various VST and VSTi available, and how to create a good mix.

 

My two cents.

[LINIROR]

O.K

I have understood and thanks for all the explanations

Linir

[john]

So which do you see yourself as Linir? Songwriter or Songwriter/Artist?

[LINIROR]

I am far away from technical stuff and music is only one outcome from my dealing with mathematics.

What I really like in music is the ability to explore melodies.

on the other hand you make music for people so you can not run away from this technicalities if you want that people will listen to you.

the easy solution is just to buy the services from music engineer and real Musicians.

Now we come to the real problem in this profession and it is how to reach jujment:

Let say that you created the best melody ever and you took the best production then what? how you can make people know that you exist ?

I have for example another hobby -ballroom dancing and I made my self a professional dancer then I had to find a lady that will agree to learn all that stuff,and in this age 56 it is not so easy to find serious partner,

but still it is possible and I found it after 2 years of searching.

Now if I will succeed to make her profesional the way to public is very simple :you start to compete and if you are the best in the world you win the world championship then everybody will know about you and you get paid for your efforts(I like music much more so it is not my gole now).

What is the equivalent in composing ?is there any competition for composers that if you win you will get paid for your efforts and then it is reasonable to invest Money in buying services.

For now because I dont know the answer for that, I will try to check other computer programs and the best is collaboration, but if there is such a competition that will make you to be recognised I will not hesitete to buy uservices after I will reach my maximum level in composing.

[john]

So, fair to say you are more a composer than artist and you need to record songs purely to tell music performers / producers what to do. ie something to sketch out a melody and chords and that's about it as the rest would be done during the recording part of the project. You only need to make your recording more appealing so that you have something more credible to let a producer hear.

 

My guess is you would do better with a muso with a good home studio to work with. The problem you will run into here is that most of these guys tend to write their own material. I guess the exact emphasis for you will depend on how clear a vision you have for the final piece. ie there is a big difference between raw melody and chords and a full arrangement including nuance of performance, the producer's choice of sounds etc, and exactly how much input you require at that stage in the process.

 

In terms of making people aware, that is a whole other question, and a very big question in it's own right!

[TapperMike]

A keyboard player realizes sometimes early on that no matter how great a virtual instrument may be it can't compare to the real thing. Regardless of how amazing it may sound. They move forward using it because it's less expensive then learning and purchasing the actual instrument and they try to emulate in performance as best they can.  Even Tuck Andress makes the assertion that while it may be great that he can combine various parts on to one guitar they would sound better coming from the original instruments.

 

When I was younger and much more dedicated then I am today. I would lay down the rhythm guitars (plural) a keyboard sound then pick up my bass and play the bassline for a song, next try to lay down some drums (trust me I'm no Tom when it comes to drumming) then go back and play a melody, then come up with some solo's then mix it all down. It was a lot of work for a song.  I don't have the time and patience for that anymore.

 

Using band in a box gives me an idea for the "feel" of the song and scoring the chord charts is a breeze.  All the parts in biab are evolving much like a band situation rather then simple repetitive loops. It's an improvisers and a composers dream for putting together ideas quickly.  Everything can be easily ported to "Real Band" which is a daw similar to bigger names from which you can replace the parts with live recording or midi and has full vst/visti implementation. 

 

Not only is biab/real band a time saver in regards to composition, arrangement and performance it also makes for a great jazz backing band. As unlike other forms of music jazz is improvised by nature. In jazz settings All the instruments improvise (except for the melody) over the chord changes. It also is a great source of inspiration for developing different musical ideas and a great learning tool.

[LINIROR]

Hi

I think that for my compositions I need a full controll because almost all my music is not repetitive melodies

the melody develops a lot during the composition so also the chords that come from it. loops chords are not good for me.

I was realy desperet but then I found this:

it is called "Emberton" and the sound are far away from any other program that I heard so far, so my question is can i buy "Cubase" or "Logic" for example and connect it to "Emberton" and then I got real instrumets sounds with full controll ?

Thanks

[john]

"....you'll need to come to grips with the preference people have to hearing a vocalist. It seems a poor singer is preferred to a midi melody....."

 

Hallelujah brother!

 

Agreed, although it does depend just how poor lol

[john]

Hi

I think that for my compositions I need a full controll because almost all my music is not repetitive melodies

the melody develops a lot during the composition so also the chords that come from it. loops chords are not good for me.

I was realy desperet but then I found this:

it is called "Emberton" and the sound are far away from any other program that I heard so far, so my question is can i buy "Cubase" or "Logic" for example and connect it to "Emberton" and then I got real instrumets sounds with full controll ?

Thanks

 

A very nice sound, though if you look at the amount of controller info that is required to get that sound it is a lot of work... unless they also provide some controller patterns for specific sounds?

 

Other than that there are many, many synths and samplers. Emberton is just one.

 

What I would say is that what you described seemed to be more focused on doing songwriter demos to present to other artists, not to be the artist yourself. Therefore I would question the need, and the expense, of such accurate emulation of real instruments. Unless of course, there is a hidden artist in there screaming to get out?

 

I agree with comments about fingerprint sounds (as I mentioned them earlier too), it yet again comes down to what is important.

 

I tend towards creating finished tracks myself because I am happy being the artist, and if not they still make good demos to present to other artists. In other words I play the odds, knowing I am happy either way really.

 

I do know that I have heard quick demo versions of my own songs and hated them instantly, hearing only flaws and imperfections instead of something glorious.

 

In terms of Emberton again... it seems to have a decent expression engine for solo strings... have you checked it out for all the other food groups? Brass, woodwind, percussion, guitar & bass (electric and acoustic)... or are you essentially buying a solo violin synth?

[LINIROR]

Hi

All the other instruments in Emberton ,which I have listened to, have extremely beautiful sounds.

but the violin is the best.

I need good sound not personally but because people including for collaboration will not accept this sound from my free program .It is very difficult(for most of the people) to identify beautiful melody that is performed with bad sound.

I understand now that it will work for me only if there are build in sounds ,as you said I can not do the programing of the sounds and I will not learn that for sure I am not the type for that.

Thanks for all the information

Linir

[john]

Hey Linir

 

I agree you would need good sound, but if you are not providing the finished soundtrack it does not need to be the absolute top of the line.

 

So yes, improve what you have. Evolve your sound forwards in a way that you can make use of what you have but in a way that also gives you loads of room to grow.

 

Cheers

 

John