Can I Copyright(Sr) A Song I Put On Soundcloud Together W My Unreleased Ep?

[Mari Rosa]

Hi, I'm about to copyright some songs using form SR.  I am the author and performer of the songs and I like the idea of paying a single fee for the copyright.  5 out of 6 songs are from my EP which is unreleased.  The remaining 6th song is currently on Soundcloud and Bandcamp.  Since I have the sixth song on Soundcloud and Bandcamp, I think it is technically distributed at this point.  Because of that, I'm pretty sure I must file a separate copyright for that song.  Can anyone back me up on this or correct me?  Thank you!

 

[MikeRobinson]

I agree.  But I'm not an attorney either.  If it were me, I'd make just one application.

[Steve Fox]

I use Songregistration.com and bulk copyright, I hope it is good should I need to fight someone over copyright, I read quite a lot about them and they seem good!

 

I used to post the songs to myself (poor mans copyright) until I discovered that method is useless in court.

[MikeRobinson]

Countries vary considerably, but in the US it's very nice:  for $35 USD you can copyright a collection of as many songs and lyrics as you like.  The notion of a "collection" is purely administrative:  your rights apply jointly and severally to all of them.

 

For example (INAL ...), you could take [could have taken] the songs on your EP and developed them just enough to be able to produce a "lead sheet" for them, and you could have registered that as a collection, just before releasing your first track and even if the other tracks weren't done yet.  That's the first "PRIVATE PROPERTY" sign to go into the ground.  Then, when the tracks are done, send in another registration for all the recordings – citing the first copyright application.  The first few sales to your Millions Of Adoring Fansâ„¢ pays for everything.  

 

And, I very routinely do spend the money to officially register things, because it clears up a lot of questions for (by covering the a*s of ...) anyone who wants to post or that I want to post the material:  "Yes, [i declare that] I own this.  Here's the copyright registration number, or you can look it up for yourself."  (And they do.)  The most-recent copyright statutes in the USA have some pretty-draconian penalty clauses, brought to you by the recording industry.  In other words, their a*ses need to be covered; they need to know that it is covered.  It just keeps a lot of doors open when you can refer to something that they can go to the US Government web-site and look up.  Plus, it says, "here is a person who minds his P's and Q's."

[john]

For any English language person on the internet these days I would say, if you are going to register your songs anywhere, register them with the US Copyright office.

 

Why?

 

By far the biggest active English speaking area is the United States. It's where the majority of your plays and downloads are likely to be. It is the biggest market.

 

So, protect your songs by registering your copyright claim there. The US recognises the US Copyright service (they run it after all). 3rd party copyright registration services really have no legitimacy in the States.

 

Where a 3rd party service may be of use is in countries like the UK which has no official copyright service. However, courts need to believe that the copyright claim has not been tampered with. This is where poor man's copyright falls down. it is too easy to tamper with mail. But when it comes to trusting 3rd party copyright services, the US copyright service is, to the UK courts, a 3rd party.

 

We thought about implementing a copyright service here on Songstuff. The one thing that puts me off is the fact that in most situations the legitimacy and integrity of the data in a copyright claim, the US copyright service wins hands down. At least that is my opinion.

[Steve Fox]

For any English language person on the internet these days I would say, if you are going to register your songs anywhere, register them with the US Copyright office.

 

Why?

 

By far the biggest active English speaking area is the United States. It's where the majority of your plays and downloads are likely to be. It is the biggest market.

 

So, protect your songs by registering your copyright claim there. The US recognises the US Copyright service (they run it after all). 3rd party copyright registration services really have no legitimacy in the States.

 

Where a 3rd party service may be of use is in countries like the UK which has no official copyright service. However, courts need to believe that the copyright claim has not been tampered with. This is where poor man's copyright falls down. it is too easy to tamper with mail. But when it comes to trusting 3rd party copyright services, the US copyright service is, to the UK courts, a 3rd party.

 

We thought about implementing a copyright service here on Songstuff. The one thing that puts me off is the fact that in most situations the legitimacy and integrity of the data in a copyright claim, the US copyright service wins hands down. At least that is my opinion.

The third party company I use are a US company

[Steve Fox]

A U.S. company is not the U.S. Copyright Office.

Yes but they say they link with the US patent office, I did quite a bit of research on them and many others, they seem best and their copyright options, bulk etc are better than the patent office as you can do as many as you need when you need instead of bulk copyright all in one go

[Steve Fox]

No and no!  Contrary to what many composers think, securing copyright protection does NOT require registering with the Copyright Office (or with SongRegistration.comâ„¢, for that matter)!

Securing your copyright itself is an automatic process.  Copyright protection attaches as soon as original material is first put into physical form and no U.S. government agency "grants" you a copyright!

It's proving that automatic copyright that's critical (by making a dated public record of it).   The Copyright Office makes this clear — that registration there is NOT necessary for copyright protection (also see answer #10).

As for why you may also wish to register with the Copyright Office even if it's not necessary for copyright protection, a primary reason is that federal registration is required — not because this "copyrights" your material (since that is an automatic process) — but as a prerequisite to actually filing your infringement lawsuit in federal court regarding a particular song.

There are also certain statutory advantages regarding fees, injunctive relief and burdens of proof that make federal copyright registration a definite consideration (and why we encourage it)!

These and other reasons to also register with the Copyright Office are described in the Copyright Office's publication "Copyright Basics" (linked in answer 10 below) — and a few are discussed in our free Copyright Info Packet — but NONE of them involves actually "granting" you a copyright since, as already mentioned, you do NOT get a copyright that way!

(Your copyrights are registered with us independently, on our secure servers, NOT with the Copyright Office/Library of Congress.)

 

The above publication clarifies what registering with the Copyright Office does — and does not — do, so do read it thoroughly!  

As it explains, registering with the Copyright Office does not "grant" you a copyright or copyright protection.  Rather, it makes a record of your "automatic" copyright, similar to what SongRegistration.comâ„¢ does.   Click here to access the Copyright Office's publication.

We also encourage you to check with an attorney knowledgeable in copyright and intellectual property law if you have any questions or concerns about any aspect of copyright law!

 

[Steve Fox]

http://songregistration.com/faq-s.htm is the company I use, I would be interested to know how upholding it really is, I trust it and hope never to be forced to use it incase it creeks but hey, who's gonna nick my stuff

[MikeRobinson]

@Hobo – "INAL."  You may be right, and if it's a matter of spending $35 x 2 vs. $35 x 1, so be it.

 

I don't know about "copyright registration services," because I know that I can simply go to the relevant authority directly – "copyright.gov" for me.  If a song suddenly became worth a million dollars,   , I would not want there to be any question as to who was "the Applicant."  (Nor would I want some suddenly-greedy fool hitting me up for a hundred-thousand ...)  

 

Guess I'll cross $$ that $$ bridge $$ when I get there.  

 

 

When I registered a trademark, I went to "uspto.gov" (the Patent & Trademark Office).  (But if I had to apply for a patent, I'd hire an attorney.)

[john]

Out of interest, the site domain was only registered in 2007. 6 Years trading maybe doesn't exactly inspire you with confidence in a realm where you want the site to be around for your entire lifetime and then some.

 

I would be interested to hear of any court cases where songregistration.com were cited as proof of a copyright claim, after all, that is the true test.

[Steve Fox]

Yes they say have been in business 35yrs, I hear what you's are saying and it is of slight concern but would be worse if I wrote something good

I have tons of copyrighted material in all forms of copyright, I should consider the UK copyright office.

 

I have a patent and a registered trade mark from another business and they were done through my patent attorney and costs many many thousands of pounds, puts me off doing my music that way although it would not be near those amounts.

[john]

That's the thing, there is no equivalent of the US copyright office in the UK. The sites that offer the service are private companies, not government agencies.

 

Canada has a government based copyright registration service.

 

In the UK, copyright is established (and therfore proveable), by the act of publication. There is no central registration. As far as I know there is no big advantage in the private copyright registration services, though I should check on any court cases that cite a registration. I am not a lawyer. This is all just my opinion and experience.

 

As I mentioned earlier, the strength of a copyright service is the belief that a jury will have that the copyright claim has not been tampered with  and any accesses have been tracked and recorded. Fundamentally, although outwith the UK jurisdiction, a jury would still have a higher level of belief that a song registered with a government agency (albeit a foreign one) would have a higher degree of integrity to a private company.

 

Additionally you have to think of where the market is and where the biggest threat to your songs would be. That would be the USA. The defacto standard for evidence, and I understand it is essential, is the US copyright service.

 

All just my thoughts.

[fallan]

having only signed on here yesterday Im a bit late coming to this but Im convinced as a Brit that registering with the US copyright office seems much more secure and I will go that way..Ive had a couple of songs published and had covers so my copyright is secure with those songs but the songs Ive written and am writing which have not been published is residing as files in my studio.Before deciding to send them on to publishers I will make certain they are copyrighted probably with the the US copyright office.

[john]

In relating back my reply to Steve Fox I realised that I omitted to mention that although the UK does have intellectual property office that covers patents and trademarks, it does not cover copyright. They do provide links to ornament information about copyright but not to a copyright registration service. I just wanted to be clear.