Is It In Your Best Interest To Do Your Own Demos?

[dnafe]

Question:

 

Is it in the best interest of the serious songwriter / artist to record their own demos?

 

The reason I ask is I can't count the number of times I've been turned off a song or artist because of a poorly done home recording.

 

Thoughts?

[MikeRobinson]

I'd think that a lot would depend on exactly what you intend the tape (MP3? heh ...) to be used for.

• A demo for copyright-registration purposes only needs to be good enough for the judge.
• A  demo for a song, meant to be professionally produced and recorded by someone else, needs to make the song look appealing in the context of whomever you're pitching it to.  Easy to hear, free of obvious glitches, appealing.
• A demo for yourself, as a performer, I think really needs to be top notch in its production values, because your performance of the material (whatever the material is ...) is the thing that is being sold.

But, nevertheless, don't hold a song back from being heard by anyone, just because you don't think it's technically produced well-enough for everyone.  Give it the best spit-shine you know how to give it, then look around for folks who can help you take it the rest of the way.  (And if you can't find that someone, don't stuff the song under a pillow.  Let the song be heard anyway.)

 

It's always a good thing to ask for – and to give, if you can – help.  "Hey, I'm looking for a real sax player who can do a better job on this sax part" ... "Hey, I've got this cool new song, but this mix sounds wishy-washy to me, and I was wondering if anyone out there can help me remaster my demo ..."  There's a world of "fellow musicians" out <there / here>.  As long as you ask nicely, and you're not asking someone for "a favor" that's equivalent to "what they do to pay their rent," hey, it can happen.  Never hurts to ask.  (Nicely.)

[dnafe]

So the next question is:

 

How does the serious songwriter differentiate themselves from the pack on forums like this?

[MikeRobinson]

Never underestimate the power of "forums like this."  Anything that brings together thousands of people in near real-time is a thing that has never before existed ... never mind that it is now perceived to be commonplace.

 

You can post your lyric ... or your tune ... or a complete song ... in a place where thousands of people can see it mere seconds later.  Sure, anyone else can do the same thing and everybody else is.  Lots and lots of useless drivel ... but ...  They say a pile of straw makes the gold coins that much brighter.

 

If you wanted to buy a lyric, say, isn't this a great place to go shopping for one?

 

Can you think of a better place?

 

Yes, there are buyers out there.  (No, I'm not one.  Just looking for one.)  But think about what it now means, to be one.

 

No one will even know you're out there:  you're the perfect mystery shopper.  You can send the author a private message to start the ball rolling.  I-f they formally secured the copyright, such that you have something "exclusive" to buy, a deal can follow.  The cost of doing so is basically zero, and you have a virtually unlimited freedom of choice.  If you're a buyer, the entire world is, as they say, "your oyster" now.

 

(Note:  if the author didn't very-timely do the legal paperwork, the song or lyric or what-have-you is basically useless to you.  You can't "buy" it.  You have nothing exclusive, and no defense when, not if, someone else comes out of the woodwork and insists that the work was stolen from them.  You'd have to commission them to create an original work, different enough not to be a derivative-work, and that's an entirely different oyster.  You've got staff-writers for that ... the folks who churn out country songs about red pickup trucks, beer, tight blue-jeans on "girl," and muddy rivers.  Which is why you're constantly looking for new material.)

 

The "serious songwriter" is the business(wo)man who strives to build and to sell a marketable music product, or some IP-securable portion of the same, who minds the legal P's and Q's, who's easy to work with and knows about deadlines, and who actually perseveres at doing it.  There are no "affirmations" in this business.  No one to tell you that you're a songwriter.  No one, these days, who'll pay you to write a song or promise you that it will actually sell.  Virtually no "record deals."  A completely new and different set of economics.  But, with it, a completely new and different set of opportunities for those who understand the business implications of the sea-change that has now occurred.

 

It is "an understatement beyond meaning" to merely say that we live in interesting times.

[dnafe]

I define serious as an aspiring professional.  This is not to demean the serious hobbyist or pleasure writer.

 

No I don't consider myself to be a serious song writer...I aspired to be one and quickly realized that I didn't have the patience or the desire to pursue the craft. I just had about 15 songs that needed to be worked out of me and then I carried on playing music and started learning the craft of recording which is an ongoing pursuit just like song writing and one I thoroughly enjoy

 

I realize money can be an obstacle and in many cases one that can't be over come but too many times the potential a song has been lost as a result of a poorly done demo and in this business you have only one chance to do it right. So why, after spending countless hours honing your craft would you not leave the job of recording or producing your demo to a professional. Yes it might take some time to pay it off. Yes it might require offering up some publishing points and yes there are weasels out there who will rip you off if you don't do due diligence.

 

But if you're serious you can find a way to make it happen.


 

[dnafe]

A fair assumption but not true...my question is asked from the perspective of having really bad demos of decent songs submitted to us when a guitar and vocal demo would have been much more effective.

Just because you have the tools doesn't mean you know how to use them properly. Are you showing off your paint job to thousands of people. Probably not.

I'm not trying to say no-one should attempt a full blown production of their song in their basement...far from it. I'm speaking about a very small segment of the song writing community who are showing off there wares with the intention of making a career out of it. 

Which brings me back to my second question: with the myriad of song submissions how does a serious song writer get his song to stand out among the crowd?  Is it with a sub par home produced demo?

I suggest that the answer is no.

[MikeRobinson]

I still think that it just comes down to what you intend to do with the demo – who's going to receive it, exactly what are you selling, and what ($)action($) do you hope that they will take?

 

If you're a performer, you want to show off how well you can sing and play, so you might do a couple of well-known standards that are within your best vocal range.

 

If you're (in effect) a producer, and "the recording that is being demo'd is the product that I want to sell to millions of adoring fans," then of course it had better be that good, and that costs money.

 

If you're trying to sell the song, e.g. to someone who would be willing to produce it so that he can then sell it to the millions of fans, then you really just need to show it in the best possible light that you can manage.  Especially in a light that suggests what the potential of the song is.

 

And if it's either of the latter two cases, then you ought to think seriously about which of these two scenarios makes the most sense for you and your song.  If you really can do everything that it takes to produce a top-notch, printer-ready recording, fantastic!  But if not, be realistic:  you're going to need some help and you're going to need to share the wealth.  You need to attract, then engage, a producer/promoter who'd be willing to put the spit-shine on your song in anticipation of a future return.  Your demo therefore is to make it perfectly clear to that person why he or she should, right now, take a chance on your fantastic song.

 

As always, it is better to go for less, and succeed, than to go for more and fall short.  Find a commercial recording that you really like, which is of a similar style of music and playing, then simplify it down to what you're sure that you can manage, then try to make it sound reasonably "like that."

[macmanmatty]

 I am building a studio to do just this, But then again I can play Guitar, Banjo, Dobro, Lap steel, Mandolin, Bass, and a  little harmonica.  I am really good at Guitar, Dobro, Lap steel and Banjo. Also I write between 1-5+ songs PER DAY,  I used  write between 5-15 songs but cut that number down, once I realized that 2 really  good songs are better than 10 average ones.  For me having my own studio just makes sense with cost of real studio time I will possibly save money in the first year!! Hell I'm funding half of our new health care system  through the US Copyright Office!! I also know how to use logic pro mix / master and have 3/4 of an electrical engineering degree. 

[dnafe]

macmanmatty

My suggestion would be to limit your studio to "overdub size" and if you need to record real drums use a real studio...trust me it's a lot cheaper! The money you will save in construction costs alone can be put to buying a couple of really good mics, preamps and converters which will significantly improve your chances of making stellar recordings.

Keep the recording chain simple so it doesn't get in the way of your creative process...hit record and go!

And don't forget the acoustic treatment of your room

[macmanmatty]

define "overdub size". My live room will be approx 18'  8"  long by 7' 6" wide and 9' 6" high. The control room will be approx 9' long 8' wide by 9' 6" high all  most all mixing and montoring  will be done with headphones. I am converting at cat enclosure underneath my house into a studio so the 2x4'  frames are already there.  I already have the macpro,  Fireface 800 recording interface, other mic pres, mixers,  paremetric eq's , compressors, numerous mics, all instruments,  and instrument, effects. and pretty much all recording equipment and gigging equipment including amps, pa speakers, and other stuff.

[dnafe]

Depending on what and how you intend to record, your main room might be more than adequate. And as you mix on headphones same could be said for your CR...that said,  mixing on headphones is never a good idea as all but the most expensive headphones do not accurately represent what's been recorded.

In my particular situation I am doing much the same thing as you but I'm flipping the rooms so that the CR is now the larger of the two...I intend to do 90% of my recording in my CR with the caveat that no more than one, possibly two instruments will be recorded at the same time. And as like you, I am both musician and recordist this seems like a more ergonomically friendly was to record.

But that's just me.
 

I might suggest that before you begin you pick up Rod Gervais book "Home Recording Studio - Build it like the Pros" - lots of really good info...in fact on the latest edition my friend Max's studio is on the front cover

 

http://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-Studio-Build-Like/dp/143545717X

[macmanmatty]

Depending on what and how you intend to record, your main room might be more than adequate. And as you mix on headphones same could be said for your CR...that said,  mixing on headphones is never a good idea as all but the most expensive headphones do not accurately represent what's been recorded.

In my particular situation I am doing much the same thing as you but I'm flipping the rooms so that the CR is now the larger of the two...I intend to do 90% of my recording in my CR with the caveat that no more than one, possibly two instruments will be recorded at the same time. And as like you, I am both musician and recordist this seems like a more ergonomically friendly was to record.

But that's just me.

 

I might suggest that before you begin you pick up Rod Gervais book "Home Recording Studio - Build it like the Pros" - lots of really good info...in fact on the latest edition my friend Max's studio is on the front cover

 

http://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-Studio-Build-Like/dp/143545717X

 

 

That book is full of good info I bought it about 3 weeks ago when it was recommended by a member of another forum I also bought this book

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0071782710/ref=pe_385040_30332200_pe_309540_26725410_item

 

 

I do not intend to mix 100% on head phones I have some very high quality infinity speakers they cost over $5000 each when new given to me by my audiophile lawyer friend when he upgraded his speakers AKA" some other client gave him better ones". I was going to put these in the live room and listen to the recording there and make mixing decisions based on that as well.

[dnafe]

It looks like you've got a good handle on things - all the best in your endeavors 

[TapperMike]

Here's a thing.....

 

 

As a musician a lot of work goes into simply writing/recording.  Often times after one has written and recorded the tracks one easily has a feeling the job is done and to simply slap down a simple mix and call it a day. It's often smarter even if you are very confident/competent in your own mixings skills to farm that stuff out. You won't have fresh ears coming into the last stages because you've already worked the piece to death just creating it.

 

It was a slow death for me writing/arranging/playing all the instruments and handling the mixdown. Peer recognition wasn't enough to keep me going.  Collab work has saved me. On some songs I lay down tracks for others on some songs I handle mixdown and on some songs I do the foundational work.  But never all three for a song I don't ever expect to get airplay.  I've been extremely productive with my collaboration work and even though none of us are even in the same state I feel a sense of comaradare and team effort.  Sure not all the end products are up to my complete satisfaction but....they are done. I have no illusions or aspirations of becoming a professional singer songwriter.  Been there done that.  It doesn't stop me from wanting to make music

[macmanmatty]

I understand you mike, Now were you ever a  professional songwriter or artist as in you derived income equal to or greater than part time minimum wage job from it (excluding gigging) ?

 

 

 

  I AM trying become a professional songwriter / player and possibly singer. I have written 100's of songs some of which are VERY VERY good other music industry semi-professionals, family, gigging artists  , and friends have told me this. I just want to record semi professional demos to have something good to send off to my connections (I have some VERY GOOD connections music industry professionals NOT semi-professionals or wannabes.  and I even though I have two left feet I still want to put my best foot forward). The nearest recording studio is 160 miles away round trip and wants over $50 / hr just to record me. Then even more to mix master and have studio musicians play.  I will be doing all the mixing myself but I have some good friends over the internet who work at large studios who can listen and critique and also drunks at the bar who can do the same ( I figure let who is gonna be your  fan base critique your mixes and well written sad country sells to drunks at bars!!).

[dnafe]

My only comment to you mac (if I may call you that) is be prepared to spend some serious time and money to get good quality recordings and mixes from your home.

Don't get me wrong, with today's technology the tools are there and for the most part reasonably priced. But learning when and how to use those tools effectively takes a bit longer than most people realize. 

You might want to see if there's anyone locally who's into recording and has the basics ready to go...he'll be a lot cheaper than your studio guy and the benefit is you get to save some $$$ while learning the art of recording and mixing, hopefully with some decent tools. Then after you've done a couple of demos and seen the real work involved you might decide to move forward on the studio thing or say nope, not my cup of tea.

 

Either way you're only out a couple hundred bucks as opposed to an initial outlay of a couple grand to set up shop

Just my $0.02 CAD

[macmanmatty]

 Hello I am converting a cat enclosure to a studio. The frame is already there and I already have 98% of the equipment I need to record. I have used logic before and I have 3/4rds of a Electrical engineering / computer engineering degree. I also did some co-op work for my EE degree in sounnd circuits.  I never got my EE degree or CSE degree either as I had family problems and the cost of going back is to high (Due GPA  I  have to go back to my out of state college). The enclosure is no longer being used it it makes sense to convert something I can use rather than a chain link enclosure that is usless to me. Also in the bi county area only 25% can play a musical instrument , 40% of the people have a computer,  only 60% can read / write  (NOT JOKING ABOUT that either!!! Franklin county Florida look it up!!). Around here I'm an immortal genus oopps... I meant genius but that is also true!! Let's just say people around here are of different  lesser species and I'm in no way related to ANY of them !!!

[dnafe]

Wow...sounds like backwoods - redneck country.

 

I can see the reasoning for wanting your own place and from that standpoint it makes a lot of sense. You are obviously doing your homework and are taking the build seriously which is half the battle.

 

All the best and if I can help with finding resources or people to assist you let me know

[macmanmatty]

Yep this is total redwoods backneck country.  The only musicians in 40 mile radius who are permanent residents are play any instrument ( minus my friend who writes code for some company in tenneeesse from his home computer and plays finger style like me are)  four  people who are three chords hacks and play at the local joint two times once a week.  There almost  no jobs here,  more dogs than people  more guns than either of the other two and more ammo than all of Fort Knox.  Welcome T...... Oh Shit did I pull the trigger? Sorry about that man, the hospital is 30 mins the other way. I can give you a ride You got  any gas I'm out?  I mean diesel,  my john deere needs diesel NOT gas!!!

[TapperMike]

Yes,  I was a session musician, and a recording engineer.  I studied at the now defunct Detroit Recording Institute under the masters of Motown in the late 70's /  Went on to study live performance production at Oakland University.  I worked for a few local recording studios includint Tantus. I've worked with Anita Baker and "Was Not Was" to name a few. Don Was is noe the president of Blue Note Records.  I've also done work as a session guitarist.  Mostly for local television and radio in both the Detroit area and Fort Meyers Florida. I've been in touring fusion and rock bands. I've done Dalley in the Alley, Arts Beats and Eats, as well as the Detroit Jazz Festival. I've played with Etta James, Koko Taylor, Johnny Lee Hooker to name but a few.  At one time Sonny Kendricks (brother of Eddie Kendricks ) was my drummer

 

 

 and I started my own studio back in the early 90's Sunk every penny I had into it not to mention more I didn't. I read all the books did all the legwork and I thought I could make it happen but it didn't.  Do you know how much it costs to buy a CD burner in '90?  It was about 20,000 for a professional cd recorder.  It dropped to 12,000 in `92  I didn't get out clean from my company bankrupcy. It follwed me.  Still not giving up on things I worked myself to death with three jobs cooking in order to rebuild my studio. I got a Roland VS1680 and started doing hiphop production for gangstra's It wasn't safe but they paid.  Eventually I lost out on that and I'd regularly turn down grunge acts who wanted me to produce record them for free.  Many years later I met up with a producer who did have a plan for beat poets.  He wouldn't charge them for recording time and he'd pay for half the cd production costs but he controlled distribution and got a bigger cut from the CD.  He had a partner who would get these artists shows at colleges.  They (His partner and he) would clean up on cover charges, sound engineering charges and cd sales at the event.  He too also got out of the biz.  Simply because there are those who feel it's a big show and they are posing and there are those who want to take it to the next level and feel they have something to prove. The whole Tupac thing was my wake up call to get out quick.  My buddy finally started to see the writing on the wall with a young son he wanted no where near that type of lifestyle.

 

As a musician I'm probably playing the worst in my life.  As a musician I'm enjoying my playing more simply returning to an amatuer state (which I have been for the better part of a decade now)  I don't have to show up early, press the flesh with everyone.stay long after a gig to wait to pack it all up.  Not look over my shoulder as I'm going ot the door with my equipment and cashbox,  As an engineer/producer... Well look around everyone and their brother thinks because they have this tool or that tool they are equally as competent as you and they don't need you. Very very few studios still remain from my studio days.  Stuff that I would get calls on from advertising companies are now sorted out via taxi

 

The major markets are still there but they are getting smaller and harder to crack.  Think about how much American Television is actually farmed out to Canada.  Think about the fact that many popular American Cartoons are actually drawn by asians like The Simpsons is actually animated in Korea.

While American production music in television and movies is dropping,  The Korean market is expanding and it's a lot bigger then Psy or BoA.

 

I don't live in LA, or NY or Memphis and I'm not going to move now.  My glory days are behind me. I'm an old man, even getting regular work outside the industry is hard as hell for people my age. (mid 50's)  My Story isn't everyone's. If you are young and have a lot of hoodzpah go out and take on the world. If nothing else you won't be living a life of regret thinking about what you could have but didn't do.