Pretty sure I'm getting ripped off. PLEASE give your opinion.

[Tanktrevor27]

So... I'm a singer songwriter and have been recording at various studios for about 4 years now. Not an expert, but feel I have a good grasp on what's fair and what's absurd. Long story short, I'm currently paying $750 per song (not including mastering. Strictly recording and having the song mixed) at a home studio (an upstairs spare bedroom). Now, let me get into the details of this home "recording studio".  

 

First off, here's a list of all the studio gear:

1. Avid Rack eleven

2. KRK rokit 5 G3 monitors

3. Blue bluebird ribbon microphone

4. Instrument cable and mic cable

 

Now, not a lot of gear, but hey, I'm sure it'll be a great sounding mix anyway, considering it's $750. Also, as far as tracking, the audio engineer uses his MacBook Pro and operates in Ableton Live.

 

First we started tracking my acoustic guitar, which I plugged directly into the Avid Rack Eleven. The studio owner (producer) and audio engineer, didn't know why Ableton wasn't picking up a signal from my acoustic guitar. It was chalked off as: "Something that needed to be figured out. With an assumption of the settings within the Avid Rack Eleven software malfunctioning." Since the Avid Rack Eleven was serving as our interface, then that meant we had no Direct Input options to record. Luckily, I had purchased a USB/Mac friendly, 2 channel interface, know as the "Focusrite". Still not doubting the outcome of my song, I happily brought over my portable interface, and we were back in the game. I played a couple run throughs to a click. Acoustic guitar tracking was complete. 

 

Next was Vocals. Before tracking, I had noticed that there was no pop filter in front of the blue bluebird ribbon mic. After addressing it, the solution proposed was, "Guitar Center is only 10 minutes away, let's just go pick one up". So, off to GC where I, I purchased a pop filter for the studio mic. Now we're back in the studio, my interface, my pop filter, let's track some vocals. When getting levels, before actually tracking, I couldn't help but hear this faint, but clearly noticeable, noise coming through my headphones. This noise was a song going slightly in and out of distortion but still clear enough to determine it was an actual song that I was hearing through my headphones. When the song ended is when it become clear what was happening. "Welcome back and you are listening to WSM country radio!". So we're picking up a radio station's frequency, which resulted in us being unable to record vocals that night. Reasoning: "Just called my buddy who does a lot of home studio recording and he said that a lot of stations boost their signals around 11 p.m. to increase their listener rates." Verdict: Vocals must be tracked before 11 p.m. or vocals will not be tracked that night. 

 

So we turn our focus to mixing our acoustic guitar track in with the rest of the, midi created, instrumentals. While listening, there was a part in one of the empty spaces of the audio track (where I'm not actually playing but waiting for the part where I come back in with the guitar melody) where we heard the sound of me adjusting my position on the chair where I was sitting. Now, I'm not an engineer, nor do I claim to know everything about engineering, but noticed with other engineers that I've worked with, and figured that this would be a simple "cut", "drag", "crossfade" situation. Also considering that every engineer I've seen while mixing, will do that procedure with all audio tracks, getting rid of all empty spaces anyway. The engineer said that I had to do the whole acoustic guitar take over again. No punch in, but another full run through. So I did and then left due to it being around 2 a.m. 

 

Since I'm not trying to write a novel here and just explain my situation, I'm going to leave you with all of the above information and would greatly appreciate if you could tell me if I'm losing my mind thinking that $750 per song (not including mastering. Strictly recording and having the song mixed) is outrageously overpriced, considering the actual specifications of the recording process at this studio, or if I have a valid argument. Thank you and please respond! 

[john]

Out of interest, can I ask.... the midi components.... did you provide them or did the producer? Are they pre-rendered or are there real instruments or VSTi's involved?

 

There are pro-studios in Nashville that would do you a similar recording, with real session musicians for less.

 

I will say that there are a lot of ifs and buts. For example, did you write the full arrangement? Did the "producer"? Is there a royalty percentage involved or is it all fee based?

 

Either way it's way more than I would pay for a home anything unless the home studio was pro level and the producer had a reputation and good contacts. With all the issues you describe i would be taking my interface and pop blast screen and going elsewhere... at least to a producer that could get his gear to work. As it was his home studio, how did he not know about the radio crosstalk? if his ears are any good, how could he miss it? Sounds like his gear might not be properly earthed. you can get the same issue wth poorly earthed guitar pick ups too.

[childed]

tha main purpose of a recording studio it's a room soundproofing and sound design.
the goal is not in the gears.
otherwise the best studios would be in gear stores 😃 
only electronic music can be produced at home with pro quality.

[Tanktrevor27]

Thanks for answering man. To answer your questions though, all the sounds/effects that were used were the ones that come with the Ableton live software, once purchasing it. We would go down the list of different sounding synths and then would choose one that everyone thought sounded fit for the song. Same process for every sound/effect that was used in the track. The songwriting/structure and arrangement is always done by me. No co-writing or structure/arrangement change.

[Mahesh]

Though I do not live in that part of the world, I would think that's expensive for a sound-proofed home studio. And based on your experience, I would further that opinion of it. I hope you finally get your money's worth!

[snabbu]

On 4/22/2018 at 1:27 AM, childed said:

tha main purpose of a recording studio it's a room soundproofing and sound design.
the goal is not in the gears.
otherwise the best studios would be in gear stores 😃 
only electronic music can be produced at home with pro quality.

 

If you prepare your tracks with the focusrite, like the bass and electrics can go DI and its no a big deal once you treat them.

 

Acoustic guitar, I would take my  mac and my focusrite to the studio plug it in and record the guitar microphone and DI on two tracks. So you can emulate these to stereo and have four unaffected tracks of guitar. Then sing the vocals. In the studio. Then take it all home and work with it. It is extremely difficult to get a pro vocal sound or any acoustic instrument sound in an untreated room. Those reflection shields are a waste of money as well.

 

So find somewhere that will do that for you at an hourly rate. If you use off peak times, $35 to $50 an hour sounds about right for here. Im not sure about there. If you have rehearsed your stuff well you should be able to do three tracks in two hours. 

 

All you are after is the treated room if you like the ribbon you have use that as well. You really don't even need the engineer.

Just take your laptop into the sound booth.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[childed]

12 hours ago, snabbu said:

 

Those reflection shields are a waste of money as well.

 

 

it's holy truth!
make the final recording of acoustic instruments in the studio, and everything else in the bedroom =)

[snabbu]

On 4/25/2018 at 10:45 PM, childed said:

 

it's holy truth!
make the final recording of acoustic instruments in the studio, and everything else in the bedroom =)

 

 

That is the way to do it otherwise you'd be forever doing subtractive EQ you'l be loosing tone quality to get rid of the untreated room reflections. And the result will never sound professional.

 

And think about this it forces you to rehearse the thing so when you do go into a studio with your guide vocal down in the mix your performance is going to be better that it would be in the bedroom because there's an urgency there to get it down and done.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

 

[childed]

14 hours ago, snabbu said:

 

That is the way to do it otherwise you'd be forever doing subtractive EQ you'l be loosing tone quality to get rid of the untreated room reflections. And the result will never sound professional.

 

And think about this it forces you to rehearse the thing so when you do go into a studio with your guide vocal down in the mix your performance is going to be better that it would be in the bedroom because there's an urgency there to get it down and done.

 

 

 

Yes, you're right, with this approach, two problems are solved - recording of the acoustic group and improvement of the performance technique.
However, the problem of mixing and mastering still remains.
good conditions for mixing (not headphones!) is absolutely necessary, but for mastering ask a studio again.

 

Serg

 

 

[snabbu]

On 4/28/2018 at 12:14 AM, childed said:

 

Yes, you're right, with this approach, two problems are solved - recording of the acoustic group and improvement of the performance technique.
However, the problem of mixing and mastering still remains.
good conditions for mixing (not headphones!) is absolutely necessary, but for mastering ask a studio again.

 

Serg

 

 

 

With mastering.

Look I'm making something now I am just waiting for the final vocals and I'm going to try something. 

I will send it out for mastering, but I am going to try something myself.

(1) check it with a spectrum analyser for frequency balance 

(2) EQ to smooth out the frequency response

(3) EQ to match the tone of my reference tracks.

(4) Check result with matching EQ

(5) Using a limiter with input and output volume linked so that when you push up the limiting the volume stays the same. Limit level -0.5 db. I will push up the input volume. I am going to listen until something obvious deteriorates. Like say the hit on a snare etc depending on the song. Then back the limiting off until that deterioration is not heard. Then I will unlink the input and out put volumes and that will be my mastering.

 

No multi pressers no exciters no imagers just EQ and limiting.

 

I will then compare what I can achieve with the professionally mastered version in the most common format Mp3 and see what 

the difference is.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

[childed]

@snabbu

 

o! sure, you must do what you can and interested, and it's your way to progress. 
but for getting mastering skill is better to do something not with your own track.
in fact, at the studio two different person make mixing and mastering. 

 

mastering is a specifiс procedure.
a basic chain is: EQ - Compressor - EQ - Limiter - Digital compression
it's better to have a gears, not plugins (except last one)

 

but the main problem is in defining what do you need to do for improvement the phonogram

 

all the best
Serg 

[starise]

If you shop around you should be able to find an engineer with a better setup for much less money. Of course, this is likely water under the bridge at this point.

 

To me it doesn't sound as if the engineer is really up on everything he needs to know. 

 

It really pays to shop around. There are a few decent online mastering services such as LANDR that can save money as well. 

 

Simple acoustic songs don't usually need as much treatment if the sound is recorded well. I use some subtractive EQ in my space on acoustic guitar. I don't feel it harms my overall sound since it's in the lower mids and I use an EQ with a dynamic response IOW it only responds to certain frequencies and only at certain volumes. It's a very selective method.

 

If you didn't commit to this guy simply make a call to inform him and walk away from it.

[Glammerocity]

I ran a 16-tx studio, which had a live room and a vocal booth. I'd have been embarrassed if that was my level of service. In fact, I'd have been embarrassed if that was my level of service when I was charging £3  per hour for an 8-tx setup at home.

 

You mention you've used other studios, which comes as no surprise. People tend to, because few people are ever really happy with finished results and would always like to redo things. I didn't know anybody who used the same studio time and again, I never had, so I asked people who came back to my studio why they did. They said it was because they had fun. It doesn't sound like you've had much fun.

 

Demos don't need big production. That's not what biz people are looking for. My songwriting partner came to my place once and had been on a bus for 2 hours with a song going round his head. He grabbed an acoustic guitar and we threw it down onto a 4-tx cassette recorder. We left that guitar/vocal first take as the demo. And a band I was in which had a bidding war used a live desk tape for demos.

 

You don't mention why you chose this guy's place apart from believing it'll be good, because $750. Presumably you haven't heard any of his previous work but it sounds like it'd be full of vocal pops.

[Samuel Davis Jr]

Sounds like you are royally getting ripped off. There are professional studios (which this obviously isn't) that would charge less.

 

I think of it this way... 3 songs at $750 adds up to $2,250. For that amount you can buy a computer, digital interface, condenser mic, and some small monitors and start your own home studio. Once you have the basics you can add on other tools as you can afford them and you'll never have to pay for a recording ever again.