Do you write for yourself or for the audience?

[thelevellers]

I've been a huge fan of a particular podcast for a few years now - I initially got into it when struggling with insomnia as it is a good balance of funny and interesting, without being too much of either to stop me going to sleep if it's going to happen, but will keep me entertained if not. The podcast's shtick is a comedian interviewing other comedians about their comedy - not being funny (though inevitably they often are), and digging into the nitty-gritty of being a comedian. A lot of the things I've learned are applicable to any creative field really, and the general attitude that almost ALL comics seem to have is super applicable to all human life really - PULL YOUR FINGER OUT AND TRY! 

 

I'm feeling kinda ranty, so strap in for a long read, sorry

 

Another couple of points that come up a lot (and is finally relevant to my post, rather than just going on about a podcast I like), are:

 

1: You only truly get good when you find your voice.

 

2: The best material is usually the stuff you do for *you* rather than trying to triangulate to what the audience wants.

 

Slight expansion on each:

1: This applies more to comic I think, but have found myself thinking more and more that it applies to musicians too. I found I didn't hate my voice by doing Starsailor covers, because I was mimicking the artists I covered, rather than making them my own, and as such I was mimicking (*googles the name*) James Walsh's style - which is to belt it out a fair bit. Letting it out and going for it is the best way to make your voice sound better, so I found myself thinking 'hmmm, maybe I could do this singing thing with a bit of practice'. Fast forward a few years and I eventually had some actual lessons, and have been relaxing into being able to sing reasonably confidently ever since. The more I sing and experiment the more I am finding my voice, and indeed my musical style - which is a lot more metal than I ever would have predicted with my roots in punk and folk..!

The more I find my voice, the happier the material I produce makes me. However, that doesn't necessarily jibe with what people want to hear...

 

2: Often on the podcast a comedian says that the moment they stopped trying to appeal to *everyone*, they improved massively. Because you *can't* please everyone, there's no possible way to do that. But if you make what *you* would want to see/listen to, or makes you laugh, then the problem is simply finding your audience. It can sometimes be that actually more people will enjoy it, or at least that the people who do like it will REALLY like it, rather than just tolerate it. But - and I think this applies more to music probably - that can be self-limiting, as you might also put some people off.

 

 

Anyway. Just something I've been thinking a lot, particularly since returning here as I realised that quite often with musicians, the focus is on making something commercially 'good', based on a set of rules. Is that what we want to do? Is that what we need to do? Surely the most respected artists are those that *break* the mould, rather than those that fit themselves snugly into it?

 

That said, respect doesn't always mean money, and fundamentally you need some of that if it's going to be your career... Although if you're mainly in it for the money, why not be a wedding cover-band playing the classics?

 

Oooh, and I totally read an interesting thing about standing out to people when sending stuff in: Listening to the inbox

 

And The Comedian's Comedian podcast

 

 

Enough waffle from me! MORE than enough... As you were!

 

Rohan  

[Pahchisme Plaid]

I really don't know that I would have any more idea than you do about if writing for yourself produces the best stuff or not.  Part of the reason for that is that I have mostly always written for myself.  Its how I express my creativity and my thoughts in some cases.

 

I started off writing only things that I would want to hear being repeated in my own head and usually they were specifically of the faith-centered sort.  For me that was important because when I had started writing, it was after a major life storm and I needed the encouragement and strength that came from hearing scripture coming back to me.  After writing for awhile, I found the need to expand outside of the norms for that type of writing as I found only certain lingo and format to be acceptable among those well established in that style and venue.

 

I started to explore what they call crossover lyrics, which I found great satisfaction in doing as I could broaden my imagery and get in touch with a broader audience, be able to identify with their struggles and hopes and play with multi-meanings.  For me, this gave way to just writing in general.  The thing about writing songs is, you can catch an expression, conversation, or idea and even if you catch just a hint, it might be enough to build a song. Cross-over songs appealed to me in that I'm not a private party sort of person.  I want to touch lives.  I don't know if that happens or will happen, but if/when it does, to me that's success.  I want to include others, glimpse, empathize, I want to touch lives.  I don't know if that happens or will happen, but if/when it does, to me that's success in my mind. 

 

Expanding my writing led to writing all kinds of different things and that personally meets my need of being creative and expressing myself.   I find myself loving to explore different things and challenge myself.  I do pay attention to forms and format, structure, styles, methods, etc., because for me knowing them is freeing.  It gives more options.  It helps me generate the feel that I intend for my lyrics and melody.  I don't confine myself to them, but I respect them.

 

When I started out sharing my songs, I actually shared them a capella because I wasn't able to play any instrument.  I was surprised at the response that I got.  Though the numbers were lower than later on, the expressions of the listeners were such that they were touched enough to share their response.  Later, the numbers increased, but the sharing of thoughts decreased.  Perhaps my audience, I don't know, but it was satisfying and encouraging.

 

I don't yet have the resources to produce something "commercially good" without collaborators because I'm not a musician (as in I don't play an instrument really well) nor am I a mixer.  However, for me, though I always have those thoughts of creating a hit lingering in the back of my head and continually strive to expand my skills, I've never really written for the purpose of producing something that for mass popularity as I would have to write about things that are contrary to who I am.  It's been more about expressing myself creatively.  

I think if I had to generate lyrics like a factory for a job, I would no longer enjoy the process as I do now.
I didn't click the links you provided.  I only read what you wrote above, so if I'm off-topic, many apologiesez.

 

 

[Rudi]

Me.

 

Stuff the audience.

[Just1L]

I write for everyone that understands where I'm coming from and/or feels how I do. I don't wish to change peoples minds about anything, nor expect them to. I solely write what I feel, that hopefully others will feel similar. Otherwise, it would feel too much like a job. I already have one of those.

[Kyla]

First write for myself and then I see who are the people interested in hearing it

[Kyla]

12 hours ago, Steve Mueske said:

How can one possibly know what an audience wants? At best it is a constructed audience. Unless, of course, you suddenly start making a shit ton of money. Then you probably know what your audience wants. In which case, write down the formula, repeat ad infinitum, then throw your soul on a pile of coats by the door.

Well yeah you will find out what the audience wants through trial and error but if you dont want to produce what the audience wants it is hardly that you will last for a long time as being successful. People tend to see through if someone is not truly genuine 

[Rudi]

12 hours ago, Steve Mueske said:

....throw your soul on a pile of coats by the door.

 

ohhh.. I wish I had thought of that line!

[Kyla]

On 6/16/2018 at 8:38 PM, Rudi said:

 

ohhh.. I wish I had thought of that line!

Can we get a verse?

[Rudi]

21 hours ago, Kyla said:

Can we get a verse?

 

I've never been averse to Steve's writing

[Shanethefilmmaker]

The best way to answer is this.  In any form of art there are two people that are the most important.  The Artist, who paints the picture. And the Patron, who views the picture and offers their own interpretation of it.  Now what the artist intends and the patron interpret can often put them at odds with one and other because the latter would often miss the mark on what the former was trying to say through their art. But despite that, that's what the patron feels and if it makes the patron feel good, then more power to them.  But other times and this is often a once and a life time chance, the patron would sync with the artist in view points.  But no matter what the artist intends and the patron interprets, there is one simple factor. The Artist creates for themselves and the patron/s observes. Now if they were to create a special piece as a treat to their audience for staying with them so long, then that's another story entirely. 

 

To make a long story short, you start by writing for yourself and finding your audience. Then once found you do write for them and yourself.

[ehgore1978]

I have and always write for myself to tell the truth.  If some people give me a thumbs up or a nice comment then thats gravy.  Luckily I like a variety of stuff as I get bored in one genre normally.  But yeah if people like it the thats great staying true to yourself is the best bet

[Just1L]

On 7/27/2018 at 10:01 PM, Shanethefilmmaker said:

The best way to answer is this.  In any form of art there are two people that are the most important.  The Artist, who paints the picture. And the Patron, who views the picture and offers their own interpretation of it.  Now what the artist intends and the patron interpret can often put them at odds with one and other because the latter would often miss the mark on what the former was trying to say through their art. But despite that, that's what the patron feels and if it makes the patron feel good, then more power to them.  But other times and this is often a once and a life time chance, the patron would sync with the artist in view points.  But no matter what the artist intends and the patron interprets, there is one simple factor. The Artist creates for themselves and the patron/s observes. Now if they were to create a special piece as a treat to their audience for staying with them so long, then that's another story entirely. 

 

To make a long story short, you start by writing for yourself and finding your audience. Then once found you do write for them and yourself.

 

100% Agree. It's the person that has their message, style, purpose, etc... and connects with a large audience that strikes gold.

[MikeRobinson]

I like to think of myself as "a writer of fiction."  I want to find an idea that is both "universal" and "important to me," then I want to write "a work of fiction" about that idea.  I like songs that have "story."  And I want them to connect with the listener so that the story plays in their life, not mine.

[nenopro]

Steven wilson once said, if you write for yourself you are a true artist, otherwise you are an entertainer. I complete agree with that, even if you are hired as a composer for a film you can still choose to work with a director who will give you a freedom.