need some serious advice from a vocalist

[lalalooah]

this is my first time on this site and I've only been here for a few minutes. so hello, my name is Dalton. I'm 17. I don't wanna hear anything about how I'm "too young" to be putting so much thought into my future. I lack a great number of essential skills that will be integral to my success should I manage to pursue a legitimate career as a musician. from what I've seen through the vast majority of accomplished artists, these core abilities are introduced from a young age and gradually develop through early adulthood. by the time they were my age, many of my songwriting idols had achieved far beyond what little fundamental musical skill I've given myself. I've had ambitions to be a singer and songwriter for as long as I can remember, yet I've never been encouraged by a family member or close friend to pursue these dreams in any substantial way, and thus I've missed out on a lot of progress I should've made already. I never picked up an instrument as a kid and was never led to believe I had any future potential as a singer. music is the most significant guiding force in my life. my love for music is boundless and I'd like nothing more than to become a musician. I would like to create art that brings comfort to struggling people in the same manner my favorite records have comforted me. I still speak of these dreams somewhat hypothetically as I feel I am inexperienced. so for the added emphasis and to ensure you know how serious I am: I need to do this. I've evaluated many potential career paths and I know with utmost certainty that they will not bring me the satisfaction I need and desire out of life. I have a responsibility to pursue music to the best of my ability.

 

in the past year I've done a bit of catching up. I now own acoustic and electric guitars which I've done a decent amount of practice on, albeit inconsistently. I've learned some of the basics of reading music. I've been toying around with digital music production software since elementary school, but recently I've devoted a considerable amount of time to learning Ableton. these practices tend to advance well until I encounter my biggest hurdle. that's my voice. my biggest concern with recording music is being able to express my thoughts through lyrics. I love writing songs and poetry. writing is the only skill that's come to me naturally. however I've yet to find any feasible method for converting my words into sound, and this often deters me from going forward with music in any capacity. I'm often inclined to give up just by hearing my voice. I hardly exert my voice in conversation; it's as if I speak with the littlest effort I possibly can. my voice is a slow gurgling mess. it isn't particularly high or low in pitch (my speaking voice is somewhat deep but I'm physically incapable of hitting notes in baritone). it doesn't know where the hell to go when I start singing. it's crackling, it's flat, it's lifeless, and it doesn't lend itself well to any singing style. I haven't spoken this way forever. my relatives are quite loud and I was the same way at a young age. so I'm hoping there's potential there for a more expressive voice. but as of now singing feels like a hopeless endeavor. I've heard my older brother sing, whose voice is booming (in conversation, he is practically shouting at all times), and even though he's not "trying" per se, I see many of my own vocal problems and insecurities mirrored in his voice. so maybe it's just a genetic problem that I can't fix.

 

I really can't give up on this, but the more I try to practice and learn the fundamentals of music, the more I realize that none of it matters if I'm unable to sing. my voice is so ill-equipped that I feel if I approach someone (friends or family) about taking singing lessons they will laugh in my face. I'll find myself amid great periods of motivation and creativity that will come to an abrupt end once singing enters the mix. I know the voice is something which must be cared for and developed over time, but at this point in my life, I feel as if I'm far too gone. I'm wondering if any experienced vocalists with more knowledge on the subject can tell me whether or not I have a chance. if so, I'd like to know what I can do right now to improve my voice and take necessary steps to becoming something i can comfortably call a "singer". nowhere in my life am I receiving musical guidance; I've had to carry all of this myself. it'd mean the world to me you could give me some legitimate words of advice. sorry if this message was convoluted or ran long. comment if there's anything more you need to know

[Mahesh]

Hey Dalton,

 

Firstly, I'd want to appreciate your courage for doing this and the thought you've put into the post. I can see that you are really committed and curious about music regardless of your experience because that's exactly what drove me to work on my career with frankly similar odds when I was 17.

 

And secondly, welcome to Songstuff

 

As a vocal coach and singer-songwriter myself, let me offer some insight into how you may want to approach this.

 

When it comes to singing, the very first thing that you must do is to separate your personal feelings and opinions about your voice for the time being and instead look at your voice as simply another instrument capable of producing various sounds. Because whether you like it or not, it is a marvel of an acoustic, physical instrument ; just like a guitar or piano. Most of us have the fortune of having this instrument given to us at birth. It works pretty much the same way for all of us even if it sounds different from each other.

 

What you maybe frustrated with instead is your understanding, control, co-ordination of the voice. Which is fair. Most of us only use our voice to do one thing - speak. Which is just one way of making sound. We never get to explore how to change pitch comfortably, change tonality comfortably and change volume comfortably; and then to do so within the grand dance of music. That is, until you reach this point of frustration   As they say, you can't get rid of the wolves in your backyard if you don't notice your sheep going missing each day.

 

Some people have it naturally in them to sing beautifully, but people like you and I need to put in some work into it. Maybe a bit of ear training too to bring your voice in synergy with your expression. Now how do you do this? Well, vocal technique training is about exactly this. To understand how to make your body generate the musical movements you desire. You start from learning to sing specific notes and then use that 'memory' in the body to move around these notes/frequencies.

 

So getting vocal lessons from the right teacher is a good way to go. I'll be setting up some challenges and am planning to recruit some members for the Songstuff Vocal Coaching Academy club. So join in and turn on your notifications so that you can participate. (Also, hint: there's a "ask a vocal coach" topic in there that might come in handy too )

 

 

There's nothing to be disheartened here in this situation at all. Feel glad that you are asking the right kind of questions and are looking to 'tackle' those questions such as here at such a young age. It will serve you well. It did for me.

 

Cheers,

Mahesh

[Cody]

I've never heard anyone say Bob Dylan/Neil Young/etc, etc, etc, on and on forever and always....... has such a great singing voice.........They did/do alright.  For me I could usually care less about pitch/intonation and all the little quirks........is there passion? emotion? a nice lyric? does it fit "musically" .......you can very easily lose all those things by trying to refine too much.  

 

For me popularized singing went to shit about the time everyone became an expert "judge" thanks to those singing shows who shall not be named.  

 

Practice recording until you find a sound that doesn't make you want to puke, yes, you really do sound like that! hahah "we will all usually be our own harshest critics" it's more about finding your own personality in your own style that I look for, and learning to ignore that inner-critic....its more of a hindrance than a help.  

 

All just opinions, I don't know anything...........best of luck to ya!

[lalalooah]

12 hours ago, Mahesh said:

Hey Dalton,

 

Firstly, I'd want to appreciate your courage for doing this and the thought you've put into the post. I can see that you are really committed and curious about music regardless of your experience because that's exactly what drove me to work on my career with frankly similar odds when I was 17.

 

And secondly, welcome to Songstuff

 

As a vocal coach and singer-songwriter myself, let me offer some insight into how you may want to approach this.

 

When it comes to singing, the very first thing that you must do is to separate your personal feelings and opinions about your voice for the time being and instead look at your voice as simply another instrument capable of producing various sounds. Because whether you like it or not, it is a marvel of an acoustic, physical instrument ; just like a guitar or piano. Most of us have the fortune of having this instrument given to us at birth. It works pretty much the same way for all of us even if it sounds different from each other.

 

What you maybe frustrated with instead is your understanding, control, co-ordination of the voice. Which is fair. Most of us only use our voice to do one thing - speak. Which is just one way of making sound. We never get to explore how to change pitch comfortably, change tonality comfortably and change volume comfortably; and then to do so within the grand dance of music. That is, until you reach this point of frustration   As they say, you can't get rid of the wolves in your backyard if you don't notice your sheep going missing each day.

 

Some people have it naturally in them to sing beautifully, but people like you and I need to put in some work into it. Maybe a bit of ear training too to bring your voice in synergy with your expression. Now how do you do this? Well, vocal technique training is about exactly this. To understand how to make your body generate the musical movements you desire. You start from learning to sing specific notes and then use that 'memory' in the body to move around these notes/frequencies.

 

So getting vocal lessons from the right teacher is a good way to go. I'll be setting up some challenges and am planning to recruit some members for the Songstuff Vocal Coaching Academy club. So join in and turn on your notifications so that you can participate. (Also, hint: there's a "ask a vocal coach" topic in there that might come in handy too )

 

 

There's nothing to be disheartened here in this situation at all. Feel glad that you are asking the right kind of questions and are looking to 'tackle' those questions such as here at such a young age. It will serve you well. It did for me.

 

Cheers,

Mahesh

thank you Mahesh for this lovely response. what exactly does vocal training involve and what sorts of activities are you planning for SVCA? I think I could really benefit from a more conventional class-taking structure. is the group simply a coalition of aspiring vocalists or will comprehensive exercises and lessons be regularly posted there?

 

should practice begin with simple vocal exercises or should I try working with songs? if the latter is a good step, should I be working with my own lyrics or turning to songs by established professionals? I don't want to find myself mirroring someone else's voice and being disappointed with the results, as I know my rendition will be far inferior to a trained singer's.

 

is there anywhere I can look online to find decent audio vocal lessons (YouTube etc)? I've seen plenty out there but most are hidden behind a paywall and seem quite unreliable. I was wondering if you knew of any that you could recommend.

 

last thing: I have a strong interest in doing vocals more akin to punk and post-punk in particular. my voice seems unlikely to soften out and lend itself to a more conventional and widely accepted brand of singing. I'm no stranger to eccentric voices. King Krule is one of my favorite artists working right now and has had a profound influence on me. I've always been interested in how him and others in post-punk can match voices of such raw aggression to beautifully subtle melodies. I'd love to do this but I've struggled to find myself a convincing voice to work with. I'm also an American so I lack King Krule's authentically British charisma. but that was just one example. if you're at all familiar with such a vocal style are there any words of advice you could give me for channeling this sort of energy within my own voice? any artists you could recommend?

 

regardless, I really appreciate the care you put into this response. thank you for the SVCA invitation!

[Cody]

In regards to King Krule........that's the vein of singer I'm talking about, maybe too young for Bob Dylan/Neil Young references  

I promise you he doesn't even sound that good in his shower  Modest Mouse and Isaac Brooks, Wayne Coyne of Flaming Lips some more current references perhaps? I mean that Brooks guy lisps all over everything I feel sorry for his mics,  but it sounds lovely.  

 

Look up Tom Waits he does alright too  

 

There's hundreds if not thousands upon thousands musicians that "don't sing pretty", but they all found a voice that works for their style of music, and a niche of listeners that appreciate their honesty and raw emotion, the exact way punk was founded.   Post-Punk to me just means somebody trying that "formula" that worked at that time, but now in a Studio with producers and all sorts of other execs trying to get their hand in that cookie jar and replicate something that made some dollars once upon a time. 

[lalalooah]

18 minutes ago, Cody said:

In regards to King Krule........that's the vein of singer I'm talking about, maybe too young for Bob Dylan/Neil Young references  

I promise you he doesn't even sound that good in his shower  Modest Mouse and Isaac Brooks, Wayne Coyne of Flaming Lips some more current references perhaps? I mean that Brooks guy lisps all over everything I feel sorry for his mics,  but it sounds lovely.  

 

Look up Tom Waits he does alright too  

 

There's hundreds if not thousands upon thousands musicians that "don't sing pretty", but they all found a voice that works for their style of music, and a niche of listeners that appreciate their honesty and raw emotion, the exact way punk was founded.   Post-Punk to me just means somebody trying that "formula" that worked at that time, but now in a Studio with producers and all sorts of other execs trying to get their hand in that cookie jar and replicate something that made some dollars once upon a time. 

I'm well aware of Dylan, Young, Waits just haven't engaged with their music enough, didn't wanna fake like they were a big reference point for me. suppose I am still quite young lol. but I adore Bob Dylan's voice.

a few more references: David Byrne, Daniel Johnston, Geordie Greep (Black Midi), Gio Escobar (Standing on the Corner)

[Mahesh]

14 hours ago, lalalooah said:

what exactly does vocal training involve and what sorts of activities are you planning for SVCA?

 

 

Well, different coaches approach it differently. People generally think it's a bunch of exercises you do regularly and somehow that makes your voice better. (Sometimes it does inadvertently but mostly it doesn't)

 

 

I personally think of vocal training as similar to learning how to ride a bike. A bike is a machine with all kinds of controls on it, you use it to learn things to do that other animals can't - balance yourself on two wheels, do wheelies and other tricks, balancing yourself on two wheels while simultaneously thinking about what you'll have later for dinner, and so on.

 

The voice is also an instrument with its own nature, its own 'controls'.

• You've got your breath/air which helps power/fuel the notes.
• The vocal cords vibrate to move them in whatever rate you want so as to generate different notes.
• The resonators in your body amplify that sound, gives it volume, gives it varied tonalities. (Think changing the EQ on your guitar patch)
• Then you've got the articulators that add meaning to each sound you generate based on the language you know and use.

 

Vocal training is to learn these controls embedded in your body to change sound in the musical fashion you want to, comfortably. The deeper you learn a skill, better control and awareness you have over it. As earlier mentioned, whether you want to learn that skill and how that's relevant to you creatively is a decision you make out of your experience and your understanding of what you want to pursue, musically and otherwise.

 

With SVCA, we've been planning to do vocal lick challenges, warm up routine support groups, engaging a regular vocal community for continued sharing of knowledge and more. We've also been preparing vocal products for SVCA that will be released in due time along with much articles, blogposts, etc.

 

 

 

14 hours ago, lalalooah said:

is there anywhere I can look online to find decent audio vocal lessons (YouTube etc)? I've seen plenty out there but most are hidden behind a paywall and seem quite unreliable. I was wondering if you knew of any that you could recommend.

 

Because I'm a vocal coach myself with reservations on what vocal training should actually be like, I'm quite hesitant naming names without being fully aware of their approach. But I do like Dr Dan's videos on Youtube and he seems to be well grounded with the science behind the voice. I must say, there's no alternative to a vocal coach. No exercise can solve all vocal problems. And each singer has their own set of strengths and weaknesses. Having a vocal coach helps cater to your issues and your goals. And more than anything else, personally I've found that being able to understand how the student is looking at what the voice to be helps so much! ; what you're thinking about, what sensations are occurring in the body etc are extremely insightful observations to diagnose a voice.

 

 

14 hours ago, lalalooah said:

if you're at all familiar with such a vocal style are there any words of advice you could give me for channeling this sort of energy within my own voice? any artists you could recommend?

 

I'm not familiar with King Krule's music but I did hear a song or two to get an idea of the voice. The only thing I'd say is to make sure that when you're trying to emulate such sounds, you don't do so by exerting your voice beyond comfort and into pain. That stint will only be short-lived as the vocal cords tend to get damaged quite quickly with repeated abuse.

 

 

[Cody]

9 hours ago, Mahesh said:

Vocal training is to learn these controls embedded in your body to change sound in the musical fashion you want to, comfortably. The deeper you learn a skill, better control and awareness you have over it. As earlier mentioned, whether you want to learn that skill and how that's relevant to you creatively is a decision you make out of your experience and your understanding of what you want to pursue, musically and otherwise.

 

 

9 hours ago, Mahesh said:

The only thing I'd say is to make sure that when you're trying to emulate such sounds, you don't do so by exerting your voice beyond comfort and into pain. That stint will only be short-lived as the vocal cords tend to get damaged quite quickly with repeated abuse.

 

 

I liked your riding a bike analogies too  very well put!