Some Guidelines For This Board

[john]

hey

 

 

I would encourage members:

 

• To enjoy themselves
• To be adventurous
• Not to post songs which they are too personally attached to
• To be clear about their intended use at the time of posting
• To use this board as a sketch pad
• To be free with their comments
• To be open to trying new ideas
• To be constructive in the interests of mutual improvement
• To help contribute to the ideas pool for new workshops

 

and of course...

 

• to help other members

 

You guys can help shape this board so please feel free to discuss changes to my guidelines in this thread. If something achieves a concensus we can move it into the guidelines (the first post).
 

For example, this area might be better as a complete sandbox. ideas only, no finished work. Songs created or worked on in this board, stay on this board? It is probably the simplest way, but then you might be really annoyed that you can't use a killer line or two that you came up with. Or perhaps only workshop like threads where no-one or everyone owns an idea?

 

Please chime in with your ideas, or support of the ideas of others. We can try and work through most subjects in their own topics as topic specific workshops. If you would prefer to see a different approach, fair enough.

 

Please feel free to post lyrics/songs (not for review, for that please use the review board). I would expect posts to be a mix between lyrical snippets, to fuller songs where you are interested in exploring certain facets of songwriting. Same goes for melodic, rhythmic or chord progression snippets and song forms. Unlike the review board we will delve into specific subjects, work on snippets etc.

 

 

Ownership of Ideas

 

Work posted on this board, stays on this board (i.e. you cannot use it outside of this board and claim ownership) UNLESS

• You stipulate your intention to use it outside the board at the time of the original posting
• OR You obtain permission from those who have contributed to the work individually (no permission, no usage). At this point the thread should be closed and/or a post stating an intent to use the work from that point on.

 

If you post a suggestion for someone else's work (that isn't an extract of your own or someone else's work) and they have stated an intent to use it outwith this board

• It is deemed you have given the topic starter permission to use your suggestions within that topic without restriction.

 

If you post a suggestion for someone else's work (that isn't an extract of your own or someone else's work) and they have not stated an intent to use it outwith the board

• Anticipate that the topic starter might want to use your suggestions without restriction. In the interests of good will be prepared to do this.

 

Work posted within a workshop thread stays on this board.

 

If that doesn't happen working out ownership of ideas will be messy. If this means that a few less ideas materialise, so be it, I think that is preferrable to members concerned about posting initial snippets.

 

Snippets are likely to grow into finished lyrics. For this reason I would suggest any claims to the ownership of lines (I'd prefer to completely avoid this) should be made at the time of posting.

 

The emphasis is on you learning, and developing, not getting help complete a specific lyric. If that is your intent I would suggest using the review boards. If for some reason you are wanting to work on a more complete piece with the aim of finishing it within this board, ensure you state your intended purpose when you post it.

 

Please don't be too precious with ideas. This area is intended as a sandbox to try stuff out with the aim of improving understanding of concepts, the usage (or not) of guidelines and the overall development of skills.

 

Overall I hope we exchange ideas freely and with the aim of collective gain in knowledge.

 

Cheers

 

John

[Steve Mueske]

Amen, brother!

[Clay Anderson Johnson]

A few comments on some specific areas:

 

• Not to post songs which they are too personally attached to

This is certainly not an issue for me.  My attachments to my work are more commercial more than personal.  If I were a plumber I would not care what anyone thought of my pipe fitting.

 

I long ago accepted that matters of musical taste are personal and individual.  I would never expect overwhelming praise and someone not liking my work does not bother me if they do not cross the line into derision or insult.

 

• To be clear about their intended use at the time of posting

I have only posted completed pieces which are already on the retail market in Showcase.  It is harder to be clearer than that.  This will continue to be the only place I post my work.

 

• To use this board as a sketch pad

I personally cannot do this myself.  I was trained in a manner which I agree with.  I was taught to only show incomplete work to two groups of people:

1. Someone who is working with you
2. Someone who is a potential buyer or agent for your work

 

The reasoning behind this is no matter how knowledgeable or well intentioned outsiders are, their vision is not your vision and will most likely veer you off your course by making you second guess your instincts.  I have found this to be true in practice.  Additionally I have had conversations with other professional writers who also agree with this practice

 

I am not opposed to suggestion but I only request it from those two groups. This is not meant to deride the ability of anyone on this forum or mean that I believe I know more than they do.  I only know what works for me.  I respect their process and am happy to help others however this is my personal process.

 

I did post two sets of lyrics I had no intention of currently using simply for content but that was more as a conversation starter than anything else.

 

• To be constructive in the interests of mutual improvement

I certainly try to embody this and if someone disagrees with any of my statements I am happy to go deeper with my own thoughts or find out the reasoning for theirs.  I love discussion of ideas and concepts.

 

I always try to contribute to any community in any way possible.  The ideals of loving your neighbor and loving your enemies are not only altruistic but wise.  The most effective means of achieving your goals is helping others achieve theirs.

[john]

28 minutes ago, Clay Anderson Johnson said:

A few comments on some specific areas:

 

• Not to post songs which they are too personally attached to

This is certainly not an issue for me.  My attachments to my work are more commercial more than personal.  If I were a plumber I would not care what anyone thought of my pipe fitting.

 

I long ago accepted that matters of musical taste are personal and individual.  I would never expect overwhelming praise and someone not liking my work does not bother me if they do not cross the line into derision or insult.

 

• To be clear about their intended use at the time of posting

I have only posted completed pieces which are already on the retail market in Showcase.  It is harder to be clearer than that.  This will continue to be the only place I post my work.

 

• To use this board as a sketch pad

I personally cannot do this myself.  I was trained in a manner which I agree with.  I was taught to only show incomplete work to two groups of people:

1. Someone who is working with you
2. Someone who is a potential buyer or agent for your work

 

The reasoning behind this is no matter how knowledgeable or well intentioned outsiders are, their vision is not your vision and will most likely veer you off your course by making you second guess your instincts.  I have found this to be true in practice.  Additionally I have had conversations with other professional writers who also agree with this practice

 

I am not opposed to suggestion but I only request it from those two groups. This is not meant to deride the ability of anyone on this forum or mean that I believe I know more than they do.  I only know what works for me.  I respect their process and am happy to help others however this is my personal process.

 

I did post two sets of lyrics I had no intention of currently using simply for content but that was more as a conversation starter than anything else.

 

• To be constructive in the interests of mutual improvement

I certainly try to embody this and if someone disagrees with any of my statements I am happy to go deeper with my own thoughts or find out the reasoning for theirs.  I love discussion of ideas and concepts.

 

I always try to contribute to any community in any way possible.  The ideals of loving your neighbor and loving your enemies are not only altruistic but wise.  The most effective means of achieving your goals is helping others achieve theirs.

Just in case unclear, these guidelines are specifically for the songwriting board

[Clay Anderson Johnson]

9 hours ago, john said:

Just in case unclear, these guidelines are specifically for the songwriting board

 

Some distinctions in boundaries of areas and specific purposes of them do remain unclear. There seems to be overlapping magisteria.

 

Is the songwriting board referred to in this thread what is on the marquee as Member Music, Critique, or Discussion under Forums or is it something else?

 

This clarity could be enhanced by posting guidelines for general site usage, navigation, and purposes of sections or a FAQ sheet linking on the homepage main menu to either. Hope this helps.