Is producing your own songs harder than doing other people's?

[GregB]

Listening back to some tracks today, one of the best I ever produced was when I recorded my nephew's song, with him doing acoustic guitar and vocal.  I added then added some other instruments, mixed and 'mastered'.

 

Once the mic/DI for guitar or vocal were setup physically and technically, I could just sit back comfortably, cue his performances and re-takes, and CONCENTRATE 100% on what I was hearing and also seeing on the screen.  I felt no pressure of creative ownership/pride, or performance anxiety.  There was a rare sense of camaraderie, work-sharing, and a common goal. 

 

In addition, my nephew plays with a plectrum and has a forceful voice, both of which helped with cutting through the mix.

 

What have been YOUR pros/cons when producing other people vs. producing yourself?

 

Feel free to exclude obvious issues such as the 'other people' generally being obnoxious, smelly or pains-in-the-arse  

 

Greg

 

 

[Clay Anderson Johnson]

2 hours ago, GregB said:

What have been YOUR pros/cons when producing other people vs. producing yourself?

 

This is difficult because the two have involved much different skill sets.

 

Acting as a producer for others my role was more as an artistic director and arranger who worked with an engineer in a studio.  My job was telling the engineer what type of sound I wanted from him and then he knew how to create that sound from my instructions.  This is the traditional role of a record producer in the classic sense.

 

Producing myself is all inclusive and involves much more hands on work.  This is the role of the producer in today's digital DAW environment.

 

Another big difference is I always had  backing players for the artist so I ran the band.  I never recorded just one person as I am doing now (me).  The band were given limited time to get it right (not hard) and the the most takes involved the vocals.

 

So it is an apples and oranges comparison as the demands differ so much.  The first was obviously much easier.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Clay Anderson Johnson

[GregB]

20 minutes ago, Clay Anderson Johnson said:

So it is an apples and oranges comparison as the demands differ so much.  

 

Hi Clay.

 

Sorry. I should have clarified that it was comparing a 'one-person does everything' producer role.

 

But I've taken from your reply that apples are harder than oranges, especially if not ripe! 😆

[Clay Anderson Johnson]

10 hours ago, GregB said:

 

Hi Clay.

 

Sorry. I should have clarified that it was comparing a 'one-person does everything' producer role.

 

But I've taken from your reply that apples are harder than oranges, especially if not ripe! 😆

 

I would find it very hard to produce another artist using a DAW system.   Not only is it more work intense but it would also place you in the position of possibly having to listen to the artist's opinions of what it should sound like.  The artist would be the client not a record company.  Traditionally the artist is just another member of the cast.

 

Producing in the traditional method is very easy as it involves no actual physical work and everyone in the studio is under your control.  No one would ever question your instructions.  The best analogy would be being the Lord of Downton Abbey.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Clay Anderson Johnson

[GregB]

6 hours ago, Clay Anderson Johnson said:

the traditional method is very easy as it involves no actual physical work and everyone in the studio is under your control.  No one would ever question your instructions.  The best analogy would be being the Lord of Downton Abbey.

 

... or Hitler 😆

[Clay Anderson Johnson]

31 minutes ago, GregB said:

or Hitler 😆

 

I know my desire to be a better person has its roots in my knowledge that I am probably not a good person in many people's eyes 😁

[john]

I guess it depends what level of the music industry you are at. Producing my own music has advantages in that I know myself, and usually how to get the best out of myself. I almost always have a strong vision for where to take a song and the sound I want to get. Working on other people’s music I find very easy, though my bluntness can be difficult for non-pros. Normally I have pretty good self awareness and although honest and pretty direct, when I am involved in a project I say what needs to be said. I try not to step on toes but it happens. In a pro studio everyone knows their role. In a demo level studio (they tend to deal with a lot of amateurs) lines are much more blurred and everyone has an opinion. I think pros really appreciate the clarity of direct communication. Amateurs tend to like a gentle shoulder massage before and therapy after a tough call. Lol

 

If I work on my own tracks, the hardest bit is always knowing when enough is enough. That said it not that hard.
 

Working on other people’s songs you just don’t have any much if any emotional attachment. That means I have great clarity, but again, my approach can unsettle non-professionals or people not used to me. Anyone who really knows me, knows that I care, I am just highly focused. If anything my directness relates to caring. I care enough to say something rather than keeping quiet for an easy life.

[Clay Anderson Johnson]

9 hours ago, john said:

I almost always have a strong vision for where to take a song and the sound I want to get.

I definitely have a very clear vision of what I want.  This is the reason I don't post snippets or songs for critique only completed works.  I was taught not to let other people's commentary destroy unity in my direction.   

 

Most of my wife's family are writers, artists, and producers in Arts and Entertainment.  It was part of my education both from them and from college that self doubt and other people's opinions are most often your worst enemies.  Only seek commentary from someone on the inside.

 

For someone just starting out, who has no formal training, or are uncertain what they are trying to achieve this is probably not a good approach.

 

9 hours ago, john said:

If I work on my own tracks, the hardest bit is always knowing when enough is enough.

Overdoing something happens often when given a multi-track recorder.  My wife, who has a very knowledgeable ear, acts as my editor.  She quite frequently tells me to take something out because simplicity usually works best.  Overstating something with too much reinforcement is very easy.

 

9 hours ago, john said:

I think pros really appreciate the clarity of direct communication.

One of my favorite quotes of all time is from Frank Zappa, "Shut up and play!"

[Greg M]

Although there are many songs that I have heard over the years, that  I would like to record myself. I just don't see the point. I am a songwriter, and I would like people to admire my songs. I don't see the point of recording a song by Seal, or a song by Sting, or a song by The Doobie Brothers. I'm not that good a singer anyway. 

As far as production goes, I put the music together myself, so there is no difference for me.

 

[john]

4 hours ago, Greg M said:

Although there are many songs that I have heard over the years, that  I would like to record myself. I just don't see the point. I am a songwriter, and I would like people to admire my songs. I don't see the point of recording a song by Seal, or a song by Sting, or a song by The Doobie Brothers. I'm not that good a singer anyway. 

As far as production goes, I put the music together myself, so there is no difference for me.

 

When I think of producing someone else I wasn’t thinking of me recording a cover song. I was thinking of me being the producer of their song, as in old school producer. I have recorded 3 cover versions in my life (except for pastiches for learning production techniques), and released none of them. 

[Clay Anderson Johnson]

6 hours ago, Greg M said:

I just don't see the point. I am a songwriter, and I would like people to admire my songs.

Since I do not know you and have never heard your work I have no idea what your actual abilities may be.  However I can tell you that I have heard this same line many times before.

 

I have known many singer songwriters who have expressed this same belief.  Most have had a trunkful of dozens or even hundreds of demos no one ever bought.  The main reasons for their failures are having a limited vision of themselves and the resistance to growing as a person in a professional manner. 

 

The people I have met who have had this expectation usually are very poor musicians.  They are writers who play instruments only well enough to back themselves.  Without professionals backing them and a major money source behind them, such as a record company, they never make it past the bar scene or out of their bedrooms.

 

The really famous songwriters, like Paul McCartney, Paul Simon, Billy Joel, & Stevie Wonder, who really make it big do so because they are big people who think big, dream big, and are actual musicians who can play anything or produce anything not just their special baby which is their song.

[Glammerocity]

 

I ran a pro studio for a while, so did a lot of sessions for others. I spoke to engineers from other studios and we all had our own stuff on the shelves, which we remixed and remixed because we could, then we'd get a band in for six hours and they'd do three songs, which we'd take home to listen to because they had a vibe. You can mix all the life out of a song. I think being technically astute can cause you to lose sight of what punters relate to in music. I've used Louis Louis as evidence in discussion, because about the only words discernible are "Louis Louis" but it's one of the great classics.

 

 

12 hours ago, Clay Anderson Johnson said:

The people I have met who have had this expectation usually are very poor musicians.  They are writers who play instruments only well enough to back themselves.

 

Personally I've found the best songwriters I've worked with weren't skilled musos, they were singers with a rudimentary knowledge of chords. And they had record deals. They concentrated on melody and weren't influenced by their instrumental knowledge. I found my melodies were often scale-ish, because it's how I thought when playing lead guitar. I had a basic keyboard knowledge and I found when I wrote on piano, picking out a melody, I'd move it around to places I wouldn't immediately think of just strumming a guitar and singing along. And I've known great musicians who couldn't write for toffee, because they were trying to be too clever for the sake of it, almost like they were ashamed to keep it simple. They didn't have deals.

[Clay Anderson Johnson]

1 hour ago, Glammerocity said:

Personally I've found the best songwriters I've worked with weren't skilled musos, they were singers with a rudimentary knowledge of chords. And they had record deals.

 

 My comment was on the opinion which was expressed not on songwriters in general only those who espouse that opinion.

 

21 hours ago, Greg M said:

I just don't see the point. I am a songwriter, and I would like people to admire my songs.

 

ALL of the singer songwriters whom I have worked with had record deals or I would not have been in a professional studio with them.  They did not all hold this opinion.  Many were good musicians and eager to learn and develop as much as possible.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Clay Anderson Johnson

[Greg M]

Ultimately, it is just my opinion, based on my own experience. There is no right or wrong answer here. But in relation to the point made by Clay Anderson Johnson, about the sort of person who might make such a comment, you have me down correctly. I don't see myself as a recording artist, and I am only an average musician and not such a good singer either. I just write songs and record them, and hope that somebody else will like one of my songs enough to want to record it themselves.

You will have a chance to hear my music once I have done enough posts to be allowed to upload a song or two, and it might surprise you, you never know.

Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick regarding this post. It is quite common with these sorts of discussions

[Greg M]

On 3/4/2022 at 2:11 AM, john said:

When I think of producing someone else I wasn’t thinking of me recording a cover song. I was thinking of me being the producer of their song, as in old school producer. I have recorded 3 cover versions in my life (except for pastiches for learning production techniques), and released none of them. 

Sorry, I didn't grasp the nature of your initial comment.