Recording Acoustic Guitar

[john]

 

Hi

 

I just bought a new microphone, a Shure SM81, for recording instruments, but primarily for recording guitar. I did consider several microphones right from Rode M5 microphones up to a Neumann KM 184, and/or a matched pair of Rode NT55 microphones.

 

What do you guys use for instrument recording? If playing live I use an electro acoustic, but a microphone gets a so much better sound that for finished recordings I would always use a microphone. I’ve used electro acoustics on demos, but finished recordings are there to last and it just bugs me every time I hear it otherwise!

 

I’ve used SM81s before in studios, years ago, but I always remember them as having a good sound.

 

What do you use? How do you use them?

 

Cheers

 

John

[Bridget Murphy]

Excellent choice of mic.

[GregB]

I record my 12-string, my one and only guitar 😊,  on two guitar tracks simultaneously, getting two perfectly synchronised tracks but with slightly different characteristics:

 

1) DI from the inbuilt Takamine piezo pickup (vibrations in the wooden body), hopefully tailored for the Takamine instrument and outputs a rich uniform sound.

2) Rode NT1 Condenser mic, from 6-12" away,  picks up the sound projection from the guitar body, as well as other natural but indirect sounds that a listener would normally hear ... fingers striking or sliding up and down the strings, the noise of strings on frets, and the indefinable phantom sound of each string vibrating on BOTH sides of a pressed fret etc..

 

The two tracks are then EQ'd differently for tone as well as being individually placed on the stereo stage. This helps give more heft and spread, especially in otherwise quite sparse arrangements ... e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvbuJHLYxzk which is plain guitar + vocal.

 

[john]

NT1’s are great microphones. Pretty versatile. I have an original NT2 which I love. Röde microphones are pretty good across the board.

 

Do you use your NT1 for vocals too?

[GregB]

On 2/7/2024 at 11:04 AM, john said:

Do you use your NT1 for vocals too?

 

Yes. I only have the one mic. Good sound and acceptable price.

 

PS. I was surprised to find it was designed and made in Australia!  Huzzah!

Greg

[Mahesh]

I had the Rode NT1 for a few months that a friend had lent me. Such a good microphone for vocals. Although you'd like your recording room to be well treated. I used to feel so frustrated when it could detect the faintest hint of a distant bark while I'm in the middle of a really good take. Sigh

 

I use the dynamic Shure SM7B now at home for the vocals and they are just a pleasure to record with and built like a tank. 

[GregB]

13 hours ago, Mahesh said:

... and built like a tank

 

Perhaps send it to Ukraine ... they need more tanks.  😶

[Glammerocity]

I used two mics, one close and one about 6 feet away. I can't remember the arrangement but in the studio we had a Neumann and a Shure condenser.

 

If the guitar part was strummed I liked to double-track it, pan L&R then EQ the middle out, so you get the percussiveness of the top end and the warmth of the bottom but it doesn't take up all the frequency space.

[john]

12 hours ago, Glammerocity said:

If the guitar part was strummed I liked to double-track it, pan L&R then EQ the middle out, so you get the percussiveness of the top end and the warmth of the bottom but it doesn't take up all the frequency space.

 

That’s a good tip and it’s something I’ve done very similar to… I like to use one track, and use a high shelf panned L with a stereo slap back delay of that panned R. I use a low shelf on the same original track and pan that right down the centre. This does as you suggest, but I use the centre low frequencies because low frequencies don’t place so well in the stereo spectrum and gives the side bands more clarity and more of a feeling of space. It works great with backing vox too.

[Bridget Murphy]

It's great to hear that you had a positive experience with the Rode NT1 microphone for vocals. Indeed, the NT1 is known for its clarity and detail, making it a popular choice among vocalists. However, as you mentioned, sensitive condenser microphones like the NT1 can pick up background noise easily, so having a well-treated recording environment is essential for optimal performance.

[David in WV]

I use my trusty Shure Beta 67A to record both vocals and my Rainsong six-string dreadnought - my only acoustic guitar.  I think it's a great sounding mic for both purposes, and though it's a condenser, it a has a smaller size diaphragm with a supercardiod polar pattern that does a great job of not picking up sound not coming directly at the mic. And unlike so many condenser mics, the Beta 67A is a pretty tough mic because it's designed to be a handheld live mic.  I can attest to its toughness, because I have dropped it down to a hard floor more than once and my dog has even gotten ahold of it and knocked it around.  I think Shure discontinued it for the Beta 87A.  

[GregB]

On 2/14/2024 at 8:26 PM, Bridget Murphy said:

so having a well-treated recording environment is essential

 

I disagree and have commented on this several times.
It might be true of a single tracked analog instrument or voice BUT ... can you hear problems in that isolated track e.g. fan noise?  If so, can you hear it in the mix?  If so, can it be easily remove through EQ or a noise filter?

[john]

14 hours ago, GregB said:

 

I disagree and have commented on this several times.
It might be true of a single tracked analog instrument or voice BUT ... can you hear problems in that isolated track e.g. fan noise?  If so, can you hear it in the mix?  If so, can it be easily remove through EQ or a noise filter?

 

Though treating it environmentally reduces the need for such surgical procedures. When you start stacking recordings made in untreated environments you generally increase the noise floor. Sure modern AI based tools can get better results fairly easily for many signals…. But that doesn’t mean the character of the recorded instrument isn’t irreparably damaged in the process. Better to avoid the problem altogether (if you can).

[GregB]

3 hours ago, john said:

When you start stacking recordings made in untreated environments you generally increase the noise floor.

 

Yes. Very true.  Fortunately, my analog tracking will only ever be just one vocal (perhaps with one harmony), and just one acoustic guitar (mirrored simultaneously via a DI).  Everything else ... the majority of tracks ... is MIDI.

 

Then again, I do have two songs that mostly feature one voice+ one acoustic guitar.  My laptop, 1 to 2 metres away from where I sit/stand to record, has an annoyingly loud fan.  I'd defy anyone to say they can detect it OR that the voice/guitar have suffered from simple treatment.

 

A treated room deadens reverb and reflected sound  ... it can't do anything about direct sound.

 

So my advice remains ... check whether the 'noise' in the mix is an actual issue rather than worrying about the room beforehand.  And I'm a fussy listener, so discernible noise on the recordings would drive me insane.

 

It's also relevant to remember that any pristine 24-bit/48K recording is going to be downgraded via streaming to a lossy 128K, and THEN listened to on tinny phone speakers/blue tooth speaker/ear buds without EQ adjustments AND in a noisy environment by an audience which no longer seems to know or care about high fidelity audio.  Assuming one get 'heard' at all!!     I thinks I'll go and slit my wrists now

[john]

Your mic sensitivity affects this, but some basic audio engineering can help you to manage the problem.

 

Here are a few things that you can do about your fan, ranging from easy and potentially free up to and including sound conditioning:

 

It partly depends on your mic polar pattern, your type of mic etc what options you actually have. Beyond your mic polar pattern is where deadening possibly comes in.

 

1. If I set my polar pattern to be unidirectional and place the fan in the dead zone of the polar pattern, directly behind. This massively reduces direct sound. Much of what might be audible will now be the sound that can be picked up from first reflections (most likely).

 

2. Build a small enclosure around your laptop location, live with sound absorbing material, preferably with sound diffusing surfaces. This can do wonders for disrupting indirect reflections of fan noise. Some simple deadening will massively reduce reflected sound. No massive expenditure. You can easily make your own mid and high frequency sound conditioning. Bass is a bit more involved, but not so much that it can’t be done. Total cost to treat a basic room, about $100. Buying some can look a bit prettier if your DIY skills are a bit rough.

 

3. Add sound absorbing and sound diffusing panels to your walls. There are plenty of tutorials on building such low cost panels on YouTube, or you can buy dense acoustic foam panels or fibre boards.

 

4. Excessive fan noise is often due to a laptop needing a good clean to restore proper airflow and overall cooling.
 

5. The addition of a laptop cooler may help. Such devices usually have fans… but you can turn them off during recording takes. This issue is common with laptops.

 

6. it may be possible and worth replacing your laptop fans with a more silent version.

 

I appreciate you are not advocating for the latter, but mics permitting, the first should be of help.

[MisterB]

On 8/20/2024 at 1:16 AM, GregB said:

 

I disagree and have commented on this several times.
It might be true of a single tracked analog instrument or voice BUT ... can you hear problems in that isolated track e.g. fan noise?  If so, can you hear it in the mix?  If so, can it be easily remove through EQ or a noise filter?

 

I did a couple of classical guitar recordings as engineer. I had to constantly deal with construction trucks going past on a road that was about 40m from the back wall of the studio.  That was a common fact of life for me, because most of the recording I did had to be done during the day.

 

btw - I used a pair of Neumann KM184's close, and a pair of AKG C414's for the room. Can't remember what pattern I used on the 414's, but likely omni.

 

Scrap that last bit... I used a pair of 414's in mid-side for the room.

Edited September 9 by MisterB

[Mahesh]

Recording acoustic guitars by miking it is out of the options for me because my room is not suitably treated. So I always plug it as line in. It has the LR Baggs pick up on it. It sounds good while playing live but I've noticed that for recording, I'd have to EQ out a lot of harshness from the signal. For now this will have to do but I'd love to record the guitar with a good condenser mic if I had the choice.