Favourite online promo site

[john]

Hi

What's your preferred site for promoting your music and why? Is it posting to bulletin boards? Or getting song reviews?

Cheers

John

btw. The Songstuff Artists area will soon be available, for free (of course). This will allow you to have an artists page, and list links to all your songs, which can be reviewed, a  link to your homepage and main music page. We won't be hosting audio, but it will allow a central point for all your music. Whatcha think?

[Didier]

Hi John,

What's your preferred site for promoting your music and why

I'm not sure I can talk of "prefered site" to promote my music, but rather of "most efficient site".

I precise this, because my prefered site is Songstuff, but not for promotion, and that's why I like it I guess: most discussions do not occur on the basis of self promotion.

As for efficiency, MP3.com boards were an obvious place. Now that it's over, the obvious places are the boards where your music is hosted. The issue is that none of the challengers have enough of an audience, so people really keen at promoting have to be present on 5 or 10 or even more boards, which is a full time job

As for myself, I stick to the two "OMDs" where I'm present: IC and SongPlanet.

SongPlanet is a specific case. Because it is more (currently at least) an online radio than an OMD. And to have your songs in the playlist, it is recommended that your songs are hosted there. I do post on the boards on SongPlanet, mostly because I have friends who are regulars, and because my songs are in the playlists

Or getting song reviews?

I am not so eager to have song reviews. Just the way I am. Some people love it, I don't. Must be partly because I'm very critic myself with my music, and perhaps I don't need/want to hear the same thing from others  :

Of course, when someone writes something nice about my songs, I like it  

The Songstuff Artists area will soon be available, for free (of course). This will allow you to have an artists page, and list links to all your songs,

This could be very valuable. Provided your various hosts allow only a limited number of space/songs, artists without their own website will be able to have all their songs in a single place. For instance, 10 songs on IC, plus 25 Megs on SongPlanet (about 5 or 6 songs). If the sites allow deep linking (as IC and SongPlanet), and Songstuff provides a field for streaming/download URL, then it would be even better.

which can be reviewed

Good idea. But I think you should consider "screening" the review, i.e., "reviewing" the reviews. Otherwise some people would post horrible things, as I've seen on other sites.

Whatcha think?

Great

And, as usual, thanks for your work.

Didier

[john]

Hey Didier

You old smoothie you .

You say you don't like song reviews... I'm not so keen on "I loved it" or "I hated it" reviews, but cinstructive criticism is often useful. I pretty critcal of my own tracks, but sometimes the different perspective of other writers can give me food for thought. that's what I like about the reviews on this board, especially on the lyricstuff board. Lots of good stuff going on there.

the only problem I can see with screened reviews is the overhead. I guess I would have to leave it to the individual members to allow review comments to show, though I don't think they should have the opportunity to remove bad review scores.

Have a great Christmas!

Cheers

John

[Steve]

Good idea. But I think you should consider "screening" the review, i.e., "reviewing" the reviews. Otherwise some people would post horrible things, as I've seen on other sites.

I disagree with this sentiment. I think the people on these boards are a pretty good bunch! I have not seen one really bad review ( apart from the one John did on my first post...  ) I find if someone doesn't like somebodies music they refrain from posting ! But if a song gets a bad review, I'm sure the artist would want to know! I know I would, otherwise how do you improve?

[Didier]

Hey Didier

You old smoothie you .

You mean chicken?

You say you don't like song reviews... I'm not so keen on "I loved it" or "I hated it" reviews, but cinstructive criticism is often useful.

I remember a very interesting article in Keyboard US, by Jim Aikin. The point was that all criticism is destructive. Which doesn't mean it cannot be useful. And the advice in "business 101" is to use criticism only from people with a "proven track record", i.e., people who know what they speak about.

I remember the comments we got in my trio: "good, but you should add a sax". "Good, but you should add a keyboard". "Good, but you should add a second guitar", and so on. The first time I spoke with a serious manager with experience, I asked him about that, and he answered: "You're kidding, absolutely stick with the trio. But change your guitar, and use some effects". I hope you see the point.

I pretty critcal of my own tracks, but sometimes the different perspective of other writers can give me food for thought. that's what I like about the reviews on this board, especially on the lyricstuff board. Lots of good stuff going on there.

I do like "technical" reviews, for instance what's going on on the lyricstuff board. And I really appreciate discussing with fellow musicians/writers.

To clarify, I was speaking more of general reviews, done by listeners.

the only problem I can see with screened reviews is the overhead. I guess I would have to leave it to the individual members to allow review comments to show, though I don't think they should have the opportunity to remove bad review scores.

I do agree about the overhead. You could perhaps do it the other way round. By default, let the reviews appear. And in the admin area (for instance), have a button such as "send this review to admin for checking".

As for bad review scores, I don't mind (unless someone gets 20 1/10 in 1 hour, which I've seen also on other sites), I was speaking only of the comments.

Didier

[Didier]

I disagree with this sentiment. I think the people on these boards are a pretty good bunch! I have not seen one really bad review ( apart from the one John did on my first post...  ) I find if someone doesn't like somebodies music they refrain from posting !

Hi Steve,

I do agree with you! I was not speaking of reviews done by people on these boards!

But if a song gets a bad review, I'm sure the artist would want to know! I know I would, otherwise how do you improve?

I'm not sure I ever improved by listening to criticism. But perhaps I never improved  

For me, reading reviews/critics of my music is a guess work: What is the cultural background of the "critic", and why he's saying what he says. This way, I can use critics, to reflect on how my music can be perceived.

Three examples (on the same song), by three different persons:

"You frequently sing off key"

"I'm amazed by your ability as a vocalist"

"I like the way I can hear passion in your voice"

Of course, I can take the first one as truth (which probably is ), and spend weeks trying to sing differently. Or I can try to understand why the first person said that.

Didier

[john]

Hi

To me it's why you look for critique. Firstly as an artist you have to be aware that people have different taste, that's why there are different musical styles. As long as you understand that, I think you can deal with those kind of comments. Secondly, for every song I write, when I play it, people will pass comment whether I want them or not. I have a different expectation from different people, this includes the opinion of those who are more informed on a technical level.

On balance I'd rather get a reaction, than none! If I can convey my intent to reviewers, and get some feedback, ideas etc, I find it useful.

The problem for me is when either reviewer or artist personalises any comment. That road leads to the dark side.

I have an idea on improving the reviews. How about reviewers are open to review. Not all members can review. Only those approved by other members?

Just a thought.

Cheers

John

[Steve]

I have an idea on improving the reviews. How about reviewers are open to review. Not all members can review. Only those approved by other members?

Sounds like an idea! But personaly, I would just throw it open. When I said earlier about John's review of my first post here, most of the critisism was on the technique of recording and the sounds I used... After a while he came back and said the song was OK just a bad recording. The point I'm trying to make is, some of us have very limited equipment, but we are still capable of writing a good song! John's comments on my song did'nt bother me because I knew my limitations. I still use headphones for all my work because I dont have any decent monitors, therefore what I record sounds great! To me...

[Didier]

To me it's why you look for critique. Firstly as an artist you have to be aware that people have different taste, that's why there are different musical styles.

Agreed. Also it has always been complicated for me, because usually people don't agree into which genre I am (or should be)

As long as you understand that, I think you can deal with those kind of comments.

I can deal with any comment.

Secondly, for every song I write, when I play it, people will pass comment whether I want them or not.

So true

I have a different expectation from different people, this includes the opinion of those who are more informed on a technical level.

On balance I'd rather get a reaction, than none! If I can convey my intent to reviewers, and get some feedback, ideas etc, I find it useful.

I think, on the whole, we agree. Perhaps since I am only a recent "online" artist (since one year), I don't feel so much the urge to have "online" comments.

I appreciate feedback/reaction, even if negative. That's perhaps when feeback transforms into uncalled suggestions (do that, do not do that, modify that, etc.) that I less appreciate them.

The problem for me is when either reviewer or artist personalises any comment. That road leads to the dark side.

Agreed.

I have an idea on improving the reviews. How about reviewers are open to review. Not all members can review. Only those approved by other members?

Just a thought.

I wouldn't be so drastic.  I think there has been some misunderstandings in this topic, most likely from my part.

You're talking about members reviews, and I was speaking of reviews open to anyone who registers (or even not), the way it's done on other sites.

I should have asked first who does the reviews, i.e., who are the members?

If these are members of these forums, I don't think there's any need for approval of reviewers.

Perhaps just something to grant they are indeed participating members. It could be a minimum of posts, even if it's low (like 5 or something), just to ensure they didn't register only to post reviews.

I hope this clarifies (somehow) my position.

Didier

[Didier]

Sounds like an idea! But personaly, I would just throw it open.

Hi Steve,

As long as reviews are done by members (read my reply to John on clarifying this) I'm with you.

After a while he came back and said the song was OK just a bad recording. The point I'm trying to make is, some of us have very limited equipment, but we are still capable of writing a good song!

Of course, reviewers able to part the difference between a song and production is always great. It doesn't mean they cannot say that (in their opinion) production lacks (or sucks   ), but it's good when comments clearly state what is reviewed.

John's comments on my song did'nt bother me because I knew my limitations. I still use headphones for all my work because I dont have any decent monitors, therefore what I record sounds great! To me...

Monitoring... an headeache for most of us. That's why I still be interested in having state of the art answers on monitoring recommandations:

http://www.songstuff.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB...;num=1068591491

Didier

[Steve]

Perhaps just something to grant they are indeed participating members. It could be a minimum of posts, even if it's low (like 5 or something), just to ensure they didn't register only to post reviews.

This sounds like a very sensible idea!

Of course ... we could always let Olggu vet the reviewers! Nobody would dare give a bad review again...      

[Steve]

I think.... GOOD! T-T-T-T-T-Things are "warmin'  UP!

Anyway... I personally haven't had much use for a prom-site, 'cause I don't produce that much... BUT it's nice to know the option is there! Good work Mr. J!

Maybe ... IN the due course of time ... they will STOP calling all those conveniences.... " Bruce".

ByEyeYeYeYEYEyeyeyeyeyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Ciao!

H.  

Sorry H... You've lost me completely here??

Still taking the tablets are you?