Message And Theme

[john]

Hi

I saw Carnival's post in the lyric reviews board about the difference between message and theme. I read retro's description and I wanted to address the same subject without taking over the topic.

I guess there is a terminology issue here worth looking at in some detail. I would stress that this is my understanding of these concepts.

Songs use a theme/vehicle to convey the message to the listener. That vehicle may have nothing to do with the message.

The message is what you are delivering.

The vehicle/theme is how you deliver it.

The song "plot" is the theme as an itemised delivery sequence/schedule.

Consider this straight forward lyric:

Too Late

Verse 1

I drank the bottle dry

Swallowing your lies

I cared

No more standing in the rain

To wash away your stain

I've been there

Chorus

Well it's too late, you've gone too far

You can't see that sorry doesn't mend it

Too late for a change of heart

I'm no saint but I just don't need this shit

You're too late, too late now

Verse 2

I acted like a fool

A puppet for your rules

So naive

Now you see me as I am

Rediscovered, troubled man

I breathe

Bridge

Please don't say another word

Save your breath for when I'm gone

Close the door and walk away

Smiling, I'll be smiling

© Copyright 2006 John Moxey, all rights reserved

In this song:

The Vehicle/Theme is the story of the end of a reltionship.

The literal message is that it is too late to change things, it is over. A less obviously stated message is that the story teller is saying "I am over you, I am a survivor"

The plot would lay out the theme and the message delivery. For example:

"1 to 1 conversational, retrospective to present tense. verse 1:lay the background of anguish and pain caused by the target of the vocal. Hint at the fact that the singer has had enough. Chorus: Layout the literal message. Hold back any details other than the core message that the target has pushed too far, and that it is too late to do anything about. verse2: build on verse 1, giving an indication of the motivation to change and demonstrating by tense and feeling that the reason for the change is a new sense of rediscovered self. Repeat the chorus. Bridge: Deliver the payoff - "I am leaving you, and I am happy about it". Wrap up with chorus repetition."

There is another aspect of theme (emotional/story/circumstantial etc) that this song doesn't really demonstrate well. That is the use of a mechanism to help convey meaning, usually by imagery, and often indirectly connecting the theme to the message. Usually this is used to strengthen emotional linkage. For example the use of temperature "cold as ice", "get my fingers burned" etc to connect and underline a theme of "a love story" to the message that "you hurt me". This is more generally within the theme/vehicle camp when the same essential mechanism is used throughout a song, my song does use imagery/sensation to connect the two, but it is not used consistantly through the song (I find this more suitable for songs that you want to almost hide the connection, or the strength of connection until later in the song).

This is at least how I understand it, and bringing clarity to my own songwriting process by viewing lyrics like this has both improved my ability to convey what i want, and reduced the overall time and number of iterations it takes me to get there.

Others may well take me to task on either my understanding of terms, or at least my explanation, but hey, it's a forum post and written quickly at that!

Does this help?

Cheers

John

[Carnival]

Helps a lot, John. Just one more question... What's the difference between message and theme?

Just kidding there. But, being inexperienced at working through these things, it's still complex and obscure. I am going to have to reread this over for several more hours (only been reading it for seven so far), or more likely several more years, then see if I can sort out some of my own lyrics accordingly, and see if it gets clearer.

I have a suggestion, and it's asking a bit of you. It might be helpful if you posted another lyric or two here and went through the process again, so we can see these process consistently applied and get a better feel for it.

Then maybe anyone else who is interested in this (I hope I am not the only one) can post one themselves and see how it goes. This sounds to me like something that you never completely master, and that is always good to practice. We can do this in the lyric review section, but until we are sort of competent at it, well, like you said, we don't want to take over a topic with it.

[john]

Hey Norm

Let me see what I can come up with.

Cheers

John

[typo]

come on john! sleeping on the job dude.

Edited November 20, 2007 by typo