MonoStone
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Posts posted by MonoStone
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1 hour ago, Richard Tracey said:
I am actually against this idea. I think it deprives other members from reading information that might to inform on something they are doing, or find some insight into a particular process in the creation of music.
We have members who have a vast knowledge base and that is something that should be highlighted and not kept hidden away.
My original idea/suggestion was to only hide replies (from everyone other than the OP) for a limited time, until a set number of replies are in or until the OP clicked to show....the 'reveal'... So it wouldn't deprive anyone of the info you mention. It's not a very 'forum' idea for a forum (edit - Although if conversation continues after the reveal it has the potential to INCREASE discussion), but it was just an idea specifically for critique, and could be a choice setting for the OP per topic, so not universal. That said.... I'd guess it's not something the admin could just switch on so maybe a custom job, so it'll likely remain an idea whether it's liked or not
David's take on it is another way to do it, which is available to everyone anyway through PM, so that doesn't change anything for the forum (I think several of us have PMd for feedback at one time or another, for one reason or another).
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10 hours ago, Richard Tracey said:
As much as I don’t agree with why they use him, we cannot discount the fact he has an ear for a hit song. The problem is, that doesn’t always mean that it will be good and everyone will enjoy it.
The one comment made in the video that is so true and really annoys me beyond anything else, is how they push a really crap song into your conscious/subconscious - unconscious!!! - mind till you start to like it as it becomes so familiar.
Most listeners don’t have the same interest in music as most of the members on here. We appreciate music, the nuances of a well written/played and produced song. But we are a minority of the listening public. Most people are happy to go along with what they are told to like. That is why advertising is a huge business.
Well I'd trade places with him any day.... or if I was asked to join the team I'd be on a plane now. But I don't think I'm capable of writing a hit pop song, partly because I don't feel that kind of music (although I can understand the appeal of some, and yeah I think he's been involved in some of the better ones...and I don't think it's as easy as the video hints at. I reckon it's actually really hard to get right.).
I have no problem with the people writing and producing the hits, I just think it's a shame that pop isn't more diverse...and I don't have a lot of artistic respect for performers who don't write their own (that includes the old time performers who didn't), but I do appreciate a great voice and performance.
In terms of brainwashing...I wonder...what's changed that much? I mean in the UK TOTP and Radio 1 made the hits with the same method back in our day, whether that was some new romantics or the latest from the Hit Factory. And on the other end... John Peel could break a band making an awful noise just because he said they were cool. Just promotion. A lot of people are sheep, as you said in a roundabout way, and I'd love to make money from sheep....if I had pop in my bones I'd be trying to cash in!
What maybe bothers me most is... If Max and his crew have written that many hits, and then the other guy mentioned in the video too, I feel like it's probably the case that it would be hard for a new writer/producer to get a look in....it's probably totally sewn up between a surprisingly small number, and that's hard on the many...and leads to the sameness....
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I'm very intrigued so looking into Max Martin...
https://storytelling.di.se/max-martin-english/
Still reading it, but my first thought was - He was really good as Rollo in Vikings!
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I think my contribution was a bit crappy... but I love the way Omen Rama (Now Mac Mega) raps...
https://soundcloud.com/monostone-1/wax-for-my-wounds-omen-rama-with-mono-stone
Check out his stuff without me https://soundcloud.com/koldmacmega/04-snakes-and-lizards-omen
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2 minutes ago, Jenn said:
hahahah no, though i should coin that. it's this whole thing of soundcloud rappers.. probably on par with what she was showing you. it's just loops and crappy 'rapping' with random noises in the background. same beats. same mumbling.
but basically anyone with Lil in front of their names... uhmmm
ya Migos.. but lofi
Yeah well the crappers on YouTube are inspiring a generation... maybe the ones on Soundcloud are, I don't know I don't listen to much rap on Soundcloud, although I know a couple of really good rappers who don't seem to get much attention on there.
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3 hours ago, Jenn said:
Don't even get my started on this new wave of absolute crap rap
Tell me about crap rap? Seriously is there a whole new kind of rap that's just crap?
I ask because my daughter and her friends all do YouTube, the boys in her class have channels where they like to rap....and I thought the quality of their rapping was just down to their age, but then she showed me some of the 'stars' they watch on YouTube rapping...and it was like... Uh? This isn't even rap...this is just saying words barely in time with the beat, no flow, no wordplay... So is that the 'new wave of rap that's crap'? Or something else?
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For clarity -
I named this thread just to match the video and I separated the 'why' because I'm not sure that modern pop music is terrible.
I just found that this video went a bit deeper than the 'it's all crap...music ain't what it used to be etc'. Some interesting nuggets in there which might be appreciated by an aspiring pop song writer lookong to cash in, as much as an old fart pop hater
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Well I found it interesting. For example I did not know anything about Max Martin, I didn't even know the name...which is crazy considering -
QuoteMartin is the songwriter with the third-most number one singles on the chart, behind only Paul McCartney (32) and John Lennon (26).[3] In addition, he has had the second most Hot 100 number-one singles as a producer (20), behind George Martin, who had achieved 23 by the time of his death.[3]
Quote -
I've not formed an opinion on this yet, I'm watching it now.... but it's interesting.
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1 hour ago, HoboSage said:
I'm also always cognizant of the "snowball effect" on the critique boards. Once one reviewer highlights a negative or a positive with a work posted, subsequent posters will invariably address the previous reviews too, even if only by implication
Good point. I think I've suggested before... isolating reviewers by making previous comments only visible to the poster (perhaps until an 'end' point) would probably result in more varied and honest reviews rather than people picking up on or just confirming what someone else said. It would be an interesting experiment at least...wouldn't it?
And now I think about it, it occurs to me that if every review is initially done in private, it might change the tone of some reviews, as a PM review might. (I'm not suggesting PM reviews... just hiding reviews from other members until a time limit or button is hit by the OP.)
EDIT - I understand why this might seem bad for a forum, less clear activity, but if the thread shows the number of posts but just hidden for a time, then it might be kind of fun too.
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4 hours ago, Richard Tracey said:
Dek, this is something I also agree with. We have had this conversation. I would also go as far as making it a tag as well, so if you want ‘go easy on me’ it is the pinned tag so members can see it and that should set the tone. I was aware when I chose ‘both barrels’, I was going to get that, but it was still a bit of a shock just how that kind of critique can hit you. You need to be prepared for it, so the members asking really need to say what they are after.
Yeah I'm not sure what the answer is. I suppose critique means critique and it has to always be honest to have any value. It can hurt, I hate getting negative or 'meh' feedback on the 'song' (as opposed to the technical side like the mix) but I prefer that to having smoke blown up my arse, because I really care about the quality of what I 'release' (for want of a better word) and besides useful technical critique this place is also a good sanity check.
Preventing trolls and insults is obviously important but that's different to direct, honest feedback which may seem negative just because that's the honest opinion. The tags maybe wouldn't really direct the type of feedback, but more likely determine whether or not actual critique is wanted and given....as opposed to support. In truth the only tag for 'critique' should be 'be honest with me'.... although tags will be often be ignored, as will written guides/rules by management or an opening post asking for critique only on a certain element, so ... guides and tags are useful but whatever happens you just roll with it, and all critique and opinions are useful in some way provided they're honest but still you take what you want to take and ignore what you want to ignore. If anyone packs their bags because they got a negative comment then for one reason or another they probably shouldn't have been there in the first place...the rest of us will either ignore or learn from such comments, even if not always initially thankfully.
I dunno, being creative can be depressing and lead to some hurt at times no matter what.. it's just the way it is... it's a sh1t biznis.
I'm in two minds as to whether clearly false positive 'nice' comments should lead to the reviewer being called out or not.... I suppose there's a place for it, some people just won't be helped by honest critique, and we can never be sure we know what someone else honestly thinks, but there are times when it bugs me... a bit
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I always thought the go easy/both barrels idea was a good one, but it would be better if it was clear per thread rather than in the member's profile. I also think that new members posting for critique should say a little bit about their level of experience.
I think the way we critique will tend to be swayed to some extent by the way the original poster worded their request for critique or.... often...didn't bother to say anything at all ... So a lot of the time it's up to the poster to set the tone.
I've rarely seen unfairly harsh or insulting critiques on here... so my main thought is - What's up?
If I was writing the rules I'd shorten it to -
Posters - Say what elements you're looking for critique on, tag the level of critique you're willing to take, state your experience in the various elements (if you're a new member) so that you'll be reviewed as new to creating music or been at it for years or whatever... and ... don't post for critique if you honestly didn't really want critique but rather wanted some smoke blown up your arse. Remember to check the work of other members so that you know who's worth listening to.... be selective. Don't be a dick.
Reviewers - Be honest, totally honest... but don't say anyone is just sh1t, and unless it's technical feedback which you're certain you're correct about and you're obviously qualified (through EXAMPLE) to say what's 'right or wrong' then please remember to state it's just personal opinion. Don't write pure opinions, or what some knobend told you was right/wrong, as fact. Don't shout about how amazing or experienced you are, demonstrate it by posting your own stuff so anyone can decide how amazing you are, or aren't. Don't be a dick.
Hope that's helpful...all just my opinions
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The Cutter - Echo And The Bunnymen
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9 hours ago, ImKeN said:
Led Zeppelin was way before I was born so this was pretty fresh-sounding to me. I think the singer's got such a great voice for this style! 😎
Hmmm it is an interesting topic, not specifically on this band but generally....when does influence go too far into immitation?
I was just about born or toddling when Led Zep were rocking the world, I only heard and appreciated them after they'd split up. I think any teen into Rock will know Led Zep in some depth, it was kind of the law if you were into rock when I was a teen, we knew all the old legends that had long since been and gone (dead in some cases), and I don't think that 'law' has changed much....so whilst they might sound fresh to you (Mr pop
) I suspect they sound 'like Led Zep' to their target audience (unless they're aiming for the pop kids).
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20 hours ago, ImKeN said:
Just discovered this young rock band(it seems they've been around since 2012)! 🤘😎
Do you think the audience look so unmoved during the performance because they're all thinking 'if I wanted Led Zep I'd have just put on some Led Zep' ?
It's interesting, such talent maybe wasted in my opinion by being that bit TOO much like their influence...or maybe that feels different to another generation. Although something's amiss if an audience can be so still through something so loud and well played...
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It's a crap association but I love this song so...
Heartbeats - The Knife
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18 minutes ago, Richard Tracey said:
That is what I am taking from it. Looking at what people are saying, it will be fairer for the unsigned, independent artists who are being shafted.
Who knows how this is going to go, but there seems to be a few people jumping on early.
I mean who would have thought that we would have Bitcoin millionaires - who are actual millionaires because how much a bitcoin costs. If the cash out now, they would never have to work again and some of these people are really young - there was a teenager in America who looked like he hadn't managed to grow a 'tache yet.
I also read this in an attempt to understand more...
http://myceliaformusic.org/2017/07/26/midem17-can-blockchain-really-music-industry/
When I read that article, I don't really see that this relates to bitcoins as income, maybe it does somewhere but from what I can understand (and there's so much hipster jargon/waffle it's hard to follow) it's all about giving artists full control and a fair system rather than the benefits of a cryptocurrency ?
The main difficulty for any artist is - reaching the point where it really matters how much control or what share you have
It won't be a game changer in terms of reaching that point anyway.
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48 minutes ago, Richard Tracey said:
I think they feel that if you are able to get a following of some sort and can build on that - you, the artist, make the money, not some middle man or corporate entity.
I actually find it hard to follow, being honest, but I gather this is less about selling music than it is about having data so that everyone involved in making the music gets paid and credited etc, maybe without a need for all the 'middle men'?
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Depends what you call 'independent artists'. For most 'idenpendent' unsigned artists it'll make little real difference...
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2 hours ago, Peggy said:
Hey it's my biggest fan!
Nice one...... Ahhh Edie...
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This is a nice song and clearly a lot went into making the vid...
But friendly words of advice... If you post here, or in other forums like this, you'll probably get much more attention and 'likes' if you say a bit more in your opening post. And ask people to listen and 'like' if they actually like it...and listen to others here and comment on their posts.
Again... intended as friendly advice to be helpful.
P.S I'm not clicking 'like' unless you reply and get involved in the community a bit
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P.S I liked the chorus melody.
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I agree - so far so food!
If you made all the music from scratch - Great job. If they're loops...still nicely constructed.
Chorus vocals could come up a little bit when you get to the final mix.
Sounds really promising, and good to listen to. Not sure about the lyric but that's your thing. Finish it off, I reckon it'll come out really good.-
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) I suspect they sound 'like Led Zep' to their target audience (unless they're aiming for the pop kids).
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Who's Online 1 Member, 1 Anonymous, 96 Guests (See full list)
Improving Critique
in Songwriting
Posted
I think the idea of the OP choosing people, in a structured way, is a bad idea.
People choose who they listen to or don't anyway... they don't need rules for that... it doesn't need all the reviewers to stand in a row hoping to get picked. As OP you just say thanks to everyone but take on board the points you want... ignore what you want to ignore...that's how it works with normal people.
To be honest the system wasn't broken... or wasn't when I joined.
Promote honesty. Kick out trolls. Value the experts.