MonoStone

I think the idea of the OP choosing people, in a structured way, is a bad idea. People choose who they listen to or don't anyway... they don't need rules for that... it doesn't need all the reviewers to stand in a row hoping to get picked. As OP you just say thanks to everyone but take on board the points you want... ignore what you want to ignore...that's how it works with normal people. To be honest the system wasn't broken... or wasn't when I joined. Promote honesty. Kick out trolls. Value the experts.

My original idea/suggestion was to only hide replies (from everyone other than the OP) for a limited time, until a set number of replies are in or until the OP clicked to show....the 'reveal'... So it wouldn't deprive anyone of the info you mention. It's not a very 'forum' idea for a forum (edit - Although if conversation continues after the reveal it has the potential to INCREASE discussion), but it was just an idea specifically for critique, and could be a choice setting for the OP per topic, so not universal. That said.... I'd guess it's not something the admin could just switch on so maybe a custom job, so it'll likely remain an idea whether it's liked or not David's take on it is another way to do it, which is available to everyone anyway through PM, so that doesn't change anything for the forum (I think several of us have PMd for feedback at one time or another, for one reason or another).

Well I'd trade places with him any day.... or if I was asked to join the team I'd be on a plane now. But I don't think I'm capable of writing a hit pop song, partly because I don't feel that kind of music (although I can understand the appeal of some, and yeah I think he's been involved in some of the better ones...and I don't think it's as easy as the video hints at. I reckon it's actually really hard to get right.). I have no problem with the people writing and producing the hits, I just think it's a shame that pop isn't more diverse...and I don't have a lot of artistic respect for performers who don't write their own (that includes the old time performers who didn't), but I do appreciate a great voice and performance. In terms of brainwashing...I wonder...what's changed that much? I mean in the UK TOTP and Radio 1 made the hits with the same method back in our day, whether that was some new romantics or the latest from the Hit Factory. And on the other end... John Peel could break a band making an awful noise just because he said they were cool. Just promotion. A lot of people are sheep, as you said in a roundabout way, and I'd love to make money from sheep....if I had pop in my bones I'd be trying to cash in! What maybe bothers me most is... If Max and his crew have written that many hits, and then the other guy mentioned in the video too, I feel like it's probably the case that it would be hard for a new writer/producer to get a look in....it's probably totally sewn up between a surprisingly small number, and that's hard on the many...and leads to the sameness....

I'm very intrigued so looking into Max Martin... https://storytelling.di.se/max-martin-english/ Still reading it, but my first thought was - He was really good as Rollo in Vikings!

I think my contribution was a bit crappy... but I love the way Omen Rama (Now Mac Mega) raps... https://soundcloud.com/monostone-1/wax-for-my-wounds-omen-rama-with-mono-stone Check out his stuff without me https://soundcloud.com/koldmacmega/04-snakes-and-lizards-omen

Yeah well the crappers on YouTube are inspiring a generation... maybe the ones on Soundcloud are, I don't know I don't listen to much rap on Soundcloud, although I know a couple of really good rappers who don't seem to get much attention on there.

Tell me about crap rap? Seriously is there a whole new kind of rap that's just crap? I ask because my daughter and her friends all do YouTube, the boys in her class have channels where they like to rap....and I thought the quality of their rapping was just down to their age, but then she showed me some of the 'stars' they watch on YouTube rapping...and it was like... Uh? This isn't even rap...this is just saying words barely in time with the beat, no flow, no wordplay... So is that the 'new wave of rap that's crap'? Or something else?

For clarity - I named this thread just to match the video and I separated the 'why' because I'm not sure that modern pop music is terrible. I just found that this video went a bit deeper than the 'it's all crap...music ain't what it used to be etc'. Some interesting nuggets in there which might be appreciated by an aspiring pop song writer lookong to cash in, as much as an old fart pop hater

Well I found it interesting. For example I did not know anything about Max Martin, I didn't even know the name...which is crazy considering -

I've not formed an opinion on this yet, I'm watching it now.... but it's interesting.

Good point. I think I've suggested before... isolating reviewers by making previous comments only visible to the poster (perhaps until an 'end' point) would probably result in more varied and honest reviews rather than people picking up on or just confirming what someone else said. It would be an interesting experiment at least...wouldn't it? And now I think about it, it occurs to me that if every review is initially done in private, it might change the tone of some reviews, as a PM review might. (I'm not suggesting PM reviews... just hiding reviews from other members until a time limit or button is hit by the OP.) EDIT - I understand why this might seem bad for a forum, less clear activity, but if the thread shows the number of posts but just hidden for a time, then it might be kind of fun too.

Yeah I'm not sure what the answer is. I suppose critique means critique and it has to always be honest to have any value. It can hurt, I hate getting negative or 'meh' feedback on the 'song' (as opposed to the technical side like the mix) but I prefer that to having smoke blown up my arse, because I really care about the quality of what I 'release' (for want of a better word) and besides useful technical critique this place is also a good sanity check. Preventing trolls and insults is obviously important but that's different to direct, honest feedback which may seem negative just because that's the honest opinion. The tags maybe wouldn't really direct the type of feedback, but more likely determine whether or not actual critique is wanted and given....as opposed to support. In truth the only tag for 'critique' should be 'be honest with me'.... although tags will be often be ignored, as will written guides/rules by management or an opening post asking for critique only on a certain element, so ... guides and tags are useful but whatever happens you just roll with it, and all critique and opinions are useful in some way provided they're honest but still you take what you want to take and ignore what you want to ignore. If anyone packs their bags because they got a negative comment then for one reason or another they probably shouldn't have been there in the first place...the rest of us will either ignore or learn from such comments, even if not always initially thankfully. I dunno, being creative can be depressing and lead to some hurt at times no matter what.. it's just the way it is... it's a sh1t biznis. I'm in two minds as to whether clearly false positive 'nice' comments should lead to the reviewer being called out or not.... I suppose there's a place for it, some people just won't be helped by honest critique, and we can never be sure we know what someone else honestly thinks, but there are times when it bugs me... a bit

I always thought the go easy/both barrels idea was a good one, but it would be better if it was clear per thread rather than in the member's profile. I also think that new members posting for critique should say a little bit about their level of experience. I think the way we critique will tend to be swayed to some extent by the way the original poster worded their request for critique or.... often...didn't bother to say anything at all ... So a lot of the time it's up to the poster to set the tone. I've rarely seen unfairly harsh or insulting critiques on here... so my main thought is - What's up? If I was writing the rules I'd shorten it to - Posters - Say what elements you're looking for critique on, tag the level of critique you're willing to take, state your experience in the various elements (if you're a new member) so that you'll be reviewed as new to creating music or been at it for years or whatever... and ... don't post for critique if you honestly didn't really want critique but rather wanted some smoke blown up your arse. Remember to check the work of other members so that you know who's worth listening to.... be selective. Don't be a dick. Reviewers - Be honest, totally honest... but don't say anyone is just sh1t, and unless it's technical feedback which you're certain you're correct about and you're obviously qualified (through EXAMPLE) to say what's 'right or wrong' then please remember to state it's just personal opinion. Don't write pure opinions, or what some knobend told you was right/wrong, as fact. Don't shout about how amazing or experienced you are, demonstrate it by posting your own stuff so anyone can decide how amazing you are, or aren't. Don't be a dick. Hope that's helpful...all just my opinions

The Cutter - Echo And The Bunnymen