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I had really bad trouble trying to write a chorus tune to this choppy lyric. I am adding notes because I am concerned te peer reviewers are not up to speed. So I'm spoon feeding them what I've done. Which covers every point on the checklist. Cheers Gary

Hi Lisa The verse is fine. The chorus. The A rhyme is not additive I think it's perfect. Pain/again If you look at the stability of rhymes and schemes. First the scheme. The most unstable scheme is abba You have seven lines which makes this the most unstable I can think of. ABBACBC In addition you should not use perfect family or additives in the chorus Use subtractives (less stable) assonance and consonance So here it is with the most tenuous of rhymes. Everybody feels it, this is so painful A Everybody gets hurt B Nobody wants to play a lead part B (consonance) Nobody wants to feel that again A (subtractive) Do we break the ties C So hard to be strong I'm beat B (consonance) Sometimes C (consonance) Now if you didn't know better you would think there were no rhymes there at all. The subject matter in the chorus suits instability. So when you put this in say your verse is explains the facts of the matter hence suitability to be stable. The chorus deals with the emotion. The song contrasts the two. Sorry to hear about this family stuff but you do know that emotions are not rational. So her nastyness to you is because your not sick and your brother is. I don't know how you deal with that,rationalise and get over it like I did, or whatever gets you bye. Cheers Gary

There is this site that will help you a lot. But before I give you the link I would say to you trust your ears. But go to this site print out a map and play with it. http://mugglinworks.com/chordmapsArchive/chartmaps.htm Cheers Gary

Well I've done it but I lost half my mix automation and my drums. So all the harmonies are too loud and the drums are not there. But it will have to do. I hated writing to an unbalanced chorus didn't feel right. Cheers Gary

Aha I have just learned that the type of rhyme you use can create a feeling in the lyric separate from the actual words. Actually to call these rhymes is a bit of a misnomer. More like sonic connections than rhymes. Because songs are sung not red rhymes in songs are vowel biased. The consonants do not matter as much. Here s a list of rhyme types going from the most stable to the least. The function of stability in rhyme is it controls the movement in the lyric. This is why rhyming couplets AA make a song drag because the rhyme scheme completely resolves and the song does to a stop. The list Rhyme. Type Blame/game. Perfect Mug/blood. Family Cry/smile. Additive Smile/cry. Subtractive Ran/cat. Assonance End/bond. Consonance As I said when you get down to assonance and consonance it is better to call them sonic connections rather than rhymes. That is why when you read a lyric tat seems to have few rhymes it still works and you not quite sure why. Sonic connections. Cheers Gary

Yes Derek he does,and the thing is he is such a good communicator. He really understands how to get concepts across. I am astounded at the number of people doing this course.. 65,000 amazing. I have just finished marking ten peer assignments and am still underwhelmed by the quality of the work. One or two at 70% but most 55 to 60. Considering all you had to do was write a verse with uneven line lengths and an uneven number of lines, create a hook emphasis by manipulating line lengths. Have a verse idea that fits with this unstable structure. Then do the opposite in the chorus. Have the verse and chorus work together. I did not get one who had written music as that was optional. So that's a bit of a drag. I am looking forward to the next set of lectures. I am having trouble writing a chorus melody to an unstable chorus for this weeks assignment last week unstable verse stable chorus was much easier. Cheers Gary

Aha paid advertising on you YouTube streams money has changed hands. That is probably it. I have half a mind to write to John Garon and see if I can get him to do an article on exactly what we do here posting for critique and discussion. Cheers Gary

That article was very interesting particularly as performing a song live on TV is said to not be publishing. Why is performing a song live on you tube different. Maybe because TV is like a one of thing. I see he confirms that there is no advantage in registering a song prior to publication. It doesn't matter if the public can see a display of a work that is shown for critique. What would be helpful would be to get one of these guys to give an opinion. And it in the muddy waters where the legal sharks do their best business. Cheers Gary

Hi John Making a song available in an electronic retrieval system means it's published in the UK. So it is my understanding that yes it depends on where you are domicile or your co writer is domicile. So the song I just did with John Knight is published because he is in England. In Australia the work is not published unless it is released to the public. So works on membership sites are not published. Having said that the published status has no bearing on your rights in the UK or Australia as we do not have mandatory registration prior to court action. In australia as well as the seize and destruct remedies, and recovery of profits. If the court thinks the violation is blatant or if the court has had a few recent cases and wants to send a message they can apply extra punitive damages. This differs from the US where the plaintiff can elect to take statutory relief of up to K$30 or a book of profits. This is different from the punitive statutory award which can not be less than $200 nor more than $150,000 for willful infringement. So you have the money or the box option. But only if you are registered of course. I cant find in the english stuff anywhere where it discriminates between public and private electronic retrieval systems. I agree entirely with your post leaving only the english issue which seems strange to me. We had this debate six years ago on RMMS and Richard Wilcox a UK music expert contributed that posting on sound-click was not publishing because it was members only. I am sure he had references but I can not find them. Probably you know those sites like plain folks etc. are US based and the posts on there would not be publishing under the US definition. Cheers Gary

Copyright in General What is copyright? Copyright is a form of protection grounded in the U.S. Constitution and granted by law for original works of authorship fixed in a tangible medium of expression. Copyright covers both published and unpublished works. What does copyright protect? Copyright, a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture. Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section "What Works Are Protected." How is a copyright different from a patent or a trademark? Copyright protects original works of authorship, while a patent protects inventions or discoveries. Ideas and discoveries are not protected by the copyright law, although the way in which they are expressed may be. A trademark protects words, phrases, symbols, or designs identifying the source of the goods or services of one party and distinguishing them from those of others. When is my work protected? Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Do I have to register with your office to be protected? No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.†Why should I register my work if copyright protection is automatic? Registration is recommended for a number of reasons. Many choose to register their works because they wish to have the facts of their copyright on the public record and have a certificate of registration. Registered works may be eligible for statutory damages and attorney's fees in successful litigation. Finally, if registration occurs within 5 years of publication, it is considered prima facie evidence in a court of law. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration†and Circular 38b, Highlights of Copyright Amendments Contained in the Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA), on non-U.S. works. I’ve heard about a “poor man’s copyright.†What is it? The practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself is sometimes called a “poor man’s copyright.†There is no provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of protection, and it is not a substitute for registration. Is my copyright good in other countries? The United States has copyright relations with most countries throughout the world, and as a result of these agreements, we honor each other's citizens' copyrights. However, the United States does not have such copyright relationships with every country. For a listing of countries and the nature of their copyright relations with the United States, see Circular 38a, International Copyright Relations of the United States. Note: The Copyright Office offers introductory answers to frequently asked questions about copyright, registration, and services of the Office. Links throughout the answers will guide you to further information on our website or from other sources. For any other questions, please visit our Contact Us page. Home | Contact Us | Legal Notices | Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) | Library of Congress U.S. Copyright Office 101 Independence Avenue SE Washington, DC 20559-6000 (202) 707-3000 Revised: 12-Jul-2006

My reasons for stating posting to sonsgtuff is not publishing. The question is only partially around what is public. If you posted a lyric to the members only section that would not be public. That is a private club where one can display work for peer evaluation and educational purposes. There is no precedent for this that I have seen. Sound click you can not access files unless you are a member. I am not sure about cloud but if that is the same then it is not public either it is a club you can join to hear independent music. I don't know what the sign on here is but if it is as a guest rather than just free access without singing in as a guest. Then they are not the public either they are guests of the club. A legal opinion which came out of a moot at Sydney university about 5years ago, determined that posting lyrics to the usenet group Rec Music Makers Songwriting, with sound files in those days on sound click. Was not publishing, even though usenet is a public place. The reasons given were the intent of the poster. The intent was deemed to be for evaluation by ones peers. The fact that the work was being displayed in a public place for critique by peers makes it a public display. Now a lot of lay people have problems reading acts of parliament. This is not a critisism. I have excised the relevant section (101 of the us copyright act, as that is what we are discussing) I have removed it separately here to make it better understood by lay persons. What appears below is what is not publishing. I repeat Not Publishing. It is a public display of the work. John put it simply that money has not changed hands. This is almost true in that the only exception is lending. Which sort of implies money would not Change hands. But for lending to be established there needs to be an agreement or a library type situation. So here is the relevant section of 101. Quote A public performance or display of a work does not of itself constitute publication. To perform or display a work “publicly†means— (1) to perform or display it at a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered; or (2) to transmit or otherwise communicate a performance or display of the work to a place specified by clause (1) or to the public, by means of any device or process, whether the members of the public capable of receiving the performance or display receive it in the same place or in separate places and at the same time or at different times. Unquote The above describes what we do here. I say again posting songs to sonsgtuff whether in the public sector or the members only sector is not publishing in any Berne Treaty country on the planet. Now in regard to the issue of registering an unpublished work that has been infringed. Dave posted this to indicate that this could not be done. These are actions excluded from statutory damages. Quote (1) any infringement of copyright in an unpublished work commenced before the effective date of its registration; or Unquote. In plain English this says if you start an action in the circuit court you can not get legal fees and statutory damages. I also know of a precedent where the judge threw the case out because it wasn't registered. Consider this; the action will not be over an unpublished work. It would be over a work that has generated money, to generate money it must be published, refer to the definitions of publishing in Daves post. Therefore a case of plagiarism will never be about an unpublished work. My reading of Daves post as to the timelines for registration is this. You have 90 days after the publication of the infringing work to register your work or if you were unaware of the infringement and 90 days have lapsed, you have 30days after you have been made aware of the plagiarism to register and preserve your rights. In regard to the phono and copyright symbols. The sections quoted state that this provides evidence that plagiarism wasn't innocent. I did not know this so that is something new. However this is not much as no plagiarism is innocent ignorance of the law is no excuse, as the law is copyright exists on fixation, the offender should be aware that his plagiarism is not innocent. Understand the definitions of defences: innocent plagiarism "oh I thought it was commons or out of copyright " Unintentional plagiarism "I can see that it's similar I must have heard it somewhere and subconsciously copied it." An infringer will always claim Unintentional plagiarism, for two or three reasons, it genuinely was, he wants to preserve his reputation, he wants to avoid punitive or statutory damages. This defence is fairly successful. I have never seen punitive damages made in such a case. If there is one I'd like a link. So in conclusion Songs posted here are not published. You can post register your song after it has been infringed unless you publish it then you have 90 days. If your song is registered you can take an action and access the remedy of statutory penalties and costs. Statutory penalties are not awarded in cases where unintentional plagiarism is established. I have never seen a case where this defence was not used and accepted. Finally the likelihood of this ever happening to someone here is minuscule. Therefore in my considered opinion registering a song with The LOC prior to posting is not good value for money. Registering your unpublished work with the LOC after your work has been infringed by a published work is essential if you want to proceed in the US. Cheers Gary

I am writing the melody as we speak. If I get I done in time good oh if not I've submitted anyway. I've just done my reviews I have done six and no one has written tunes, disappointing. Cheers Gary

Well then I must be totally wrong then. Good oh Cheers Gary

Ok I see 106 a is moral rights Cheers Gary

What does section 106a refer to the exception in the preamble? So if it is unpublished you only have 30 days post infringement unpublished 90days published? Seems a bit strange. Cheers Gary

No that is sounding exactly right to me. The spotlight is there. The chorus lyric is very nice. It's all connected and focussed. Cheers Gary

Hi Dave I'm in Australia. I will ignore the insult I agree with most of this in regard to published writers domicile in the USA . The exceptions being. The overstating of the burden of evidence. The judiciary does not need a spotty 21 year old expert to explain the efficacy of computer logs. Nor much to some surprise do they need seeing eye dogs. In short they are reasonably bright people. All of the time line evidence will be written there will be no witnesses after all, all you would be rebutting is another piece of paper. Your interpretation of the defense of unintentional plagiarism is not mine do you have a reference case, I am using the Harrison/ He's so fine case . The function of © A proper notice of copyright does more than just let potential infringers know that you know your rights. This is not right, this is all it does. A work is copyright on fixed formation. It makes no difference to the way the infringement is viewed. However the original post was not about published songs it is about writers posting stuff on here with links to files on soundcloud. There is no benefit to them to register with The LOC, other than if they are infringed by a published work and they didn't realize within 90 days. Costs and statutory damages are not to my knowledge commonly awarded in cases where unintentional plagiarism is a defense. Yes there is a minimal risk in regard to the 90 days but it's small and a very very long bow. Cheers Gary

Yea well a reasonably cluey bloke wrote quite a bit of it. I have checked on the loc faq and I can't find where they have issued a similar advice http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/ I think they should. I am not across Canadian copyright law so I don't know. Cheers Gary

Hi John I think you misunderstood my first post on this probably my fault for using legal Jargon. "These services are businesses they may even be quangos but they are about making money. " Quangos refers to the LOC. It stands for Quasi Autonomous government organizations. You can see why we have a nick name. The LOC is a revenue centre for the US government. Although to be fair a lot of that comes from the mandatory publication lodgments. I am aware that all others in the UK etc are private businesses. Now on the merits of LOC registration. On the Basis of "We are affording you protection it therefore behooves you to follow the correct procedure if you want me to hear your case" Paraphrasing a US circuit court Judge. If you do not register your song before taking legal action, you run the risk of a circuit court judge refusing to hear your case. Even though you are legally entitle to protection. He can do this because of precedent law. In addition the case cannot be escalated for statutory damages. Having said that a musician does not need to know all that, that's what entertainment attorneys are for. What a musician does need to know is what is and isn't copyrightable, and what he has to prove if infringed so as to protect himself by creating evidence of creation. He must also understand that he limits his remedies if he does not register. In that he can receive actual damages, but he can not receive statutory punitive awards, and court cost awards, if the song is not registered prior to infringement. Or within three months of publication. So to make it quite clear you must register your song with the LOC if you want to maintain the remedy of punitive damages. The time you have to do this is up to five years from publication, and prior to infringement. Or up to 3 months from publication. You must register your song prior to taking court action in the USA. If you don't register your song prior to infringement you can still get actual damages i.e. the royalties and destruction orders for the infringing work. So is it worth registering a song to protect your right to statutory damages and costs? Answer maybe not, The reason being I am only aware of statutory damages being awarded where someone has blatantly done something wrong. In all song copyright cases I am aware of, the infringer will plead unintentional plagiarism. He will admit he's substantially similar, yes he's after you, Oh I must have heard the song, and it was in my subconscious. I have no knowledge of any US judge awarding statutory damages in the light of such a defense. So I think you have an extra remedy that you are most likely never ever going to get to use. So what I am advocating is. If your work is published and you are domicile in the US you should register your work within three months. This will protect your remedy of statutory damages which you may never use but you never know. If you are not domicile in the US and wish to avail yourself of the US jurisdiction, register your work within three months of publication. Posting a song on songstuff and putting a link to a file on sound cloud is not publishing. The work is not published. Therefore if you are not published and infringed then you can go and register the work and proceed with your case and remedy of statutory damages. Because you have registered the song within three months of publication. Because prima face publication has yet to happen, unless the infringer has published it, then you need to get it registered within the dead line to protect those extra rights. So to get back to my original point which was directed to the proposition amateur song writer posting on this site and concerned about theft. There is absolutely no advantage in registering your work with the LOC. The perception that a court will give more weight to date of creation evidence because it comes from a government office is false. Not even the LOC will say this on their web site. That would obviously be unconstitutional. There are more powerful time of creation evidences than the LOC. Because they are multiple. We've discussed creation evidence and archiving it with your DAW files. The writer would be infringed by a published or unpublished plagiarism. Even if the plagiarism is published he has three months to register and still get full remedies. There is no intention on my part to insinuate in any way that anything songstuff has or has not done is contributing to a deterioration of musician members rights and protections. If it came across like that it is purely because I simplified my explanations to save time. That was a roaring success I am saying that advocating LOC registration is unnecessary as it does nothing to protect members rights unless they are published. Then the record company does it anyway. Although they have been known to forget. I am telling you this to inform you not to criticize what songstuff is doing. If songstuff has a policy of advocating registration, that is fine I don't have a problem with that. Cheers Gary

You'll get 90 :-)

http://www.copyright.org.au/admin/cms-acc1/_images/21445036164f389f7a9a289.pdf Hi Here's a link to an advice sheet for musicians. The only thing you need to be aware of in addition to what is contained in the sheet is that in the US you have to register your copyright before you can take legal action. You do not have to register your copyright before you are infringed to be protected. The time stamp on the registration of the work is not evidence of creation for that you are relying on other time stamps. Read the sheet. Get into the habit of making notes within your song file in your DAW if you are using a program that doesn't allow this use word documents. Use a separate document for each notation so as not to disturb the time stamp. When you finish a project archive everything. Every work tape, note, email. Post your stuff to at least two online services, say sound cloud and sound click. Post your work to online forums such as song stuff plain folks or RMMS. Discuss your songs on line etc. Cheers Gary

Hi John There is a couple of things I would like to say about song registration services. I suppose it is offered free to published writers in the US by ASCAP or whoever is your collection agency. The United Kingdom has a registration service as well. These services are businesses they may even be quangos but they are about making money. There is absolutely no difference in evidential value between their time stamp and yours, zero. Unless the times were identical and that is not possible, yours will always precede theirs. Consider this you post your song to sound cloud and sound click you then upload the links to sonsgtuff. 3 time stamps. Hobosage comments,another time stamp and on it goes. You are well protected. Or you send you registration off and make a $35.00. Payment. And don't post the song anywhere. You have Zero protection because no court will hear your case for an unpublished work as you will be unable to prove access. In regards to venues for copyright infringements it is common for Americans to assume they run the net. This is incorrect. The choice for venue is up to the injured party, and justifications for venue choices are such things as domicile. If that jurisdiction is a signatory to Berne the judgement is enforceable in all signature countries. Now if I was infringed it would depend on the nature of the infringement. If it was obviously deliberate or a good chance of being thought so by a reasonable person and the defendant had means, I would choose the US Supreme Court system no question about it. The reason being punitive damages. If the plagiarism could be passed off as unintentional then I would choose the Supreme Court of NSW particularly if the defendant is domicile in the US. The reason being the defendant has to instruct two solicitors one US one NSW and one barrister, Australian. This doubles his costs, plus he has to come here to run his case. So it's a judgement call. Cheers Gary

I disagree with your response. I do not agree that it is not a valid question. It is an imminently understandable one. It does not indicate unhealthy opinions as to the worth of your own work as compared to other members. It is indicative to me of a normal healthy artistic ego, and self esteem. To say there is no good answer is not correct, I have given the answer in another post and I believe it is a good one. The answer is; highly unlikely, with a rider that posting your song makes it even less likely. I have set out the facts and good and valid reasons for my opinion. Cheers Gary

No totally not the case. I actually post songs here to protect them. I will take you through the US system as I am guessing you are in that duristiction. If your not other Berne signatories are pretty similar the differences are procedural. Point one any work has copyright automatically when it is created. There is no need to register the work. Copyright protection exists whether you include a statement to that effect or not. The reason for using a Copyright or phonocord statement symbol and date is to indicate to others that you are aware of your rights and may well peruse them. Infringement Unless you are wealthy in the United States and Australia owners of patents copyrights and trademarks would need to carry intellectual property insurance otherwise they would be unlikely to have the wear withal to mount a case. Proof Step one the court will not hear the case unless you can prove access. That is it the case goes no further unless you can show on the balance of probabilities that the infringer had access to the work the case closed. Does not matter if it's a direct knock off , if you can not prove access case is closed. That is why posting on sound click or sound cloud is so wonderful as evidence. A time stamped upload (proof of time of creation) a public arena proof of possible access. So you can get past stage one. The next question of proof. Is to do with creation of the work. The evidence here is earlier drafts, work tapes, discussions on critique forums. Notes in your DAW as you worked the song up. There are dates on all these revisions in your computer system. These can be extracted and are good evidence of creation. Can the infringer show these workings, well he could if he could be bothered forging them but he would need a tech head to manipulate his computer. And it would be a lot of work. If a person is too lazy or so lacking in talent they can't write their own song are they going to be up to faking this? Highly unlikely. One thing they can not fake is the time stamp on the upload, unless they conspire with sys admin at click and cloud and sonsgtuff, plus all the members. The next question for the court is substantial similarity this is a matter for expert witnesses a musicologist who will give evidence on which bits are substantially similar and what the contribution is to the work as a whole. A stupid myth is you can copy ten percent and get away with it. This is nonsense it is all about the contribution of the similar bits to the work. For example if the riff for jumping jack flash had been written by any other than Kieth Richards there would have been plagiarism of the riff from satisfaction. That would be under two percent of the work yet those riffs are central to the success of both works. The flash riff is a variation of the satisfaction riff and not a disticnt new work. The next question is an opinion by qualified witnesses, musicologist to review other works and make a call as to whether it is plausible that you wrote the work. The final question in the US only is that of intent as US courts award punitive damages. That is to say that if after they have ordered the infringer to remove all the plagiarised material from the market place and have it destroyed, and or remit all royalties and court costs to the court for payent to the injured party. If the court feels it was a deliberate act they will punish the offender by awarding you extra money in punitive damages. This amount is dependent on the means of the defendants if they are a multinational record company that could be several million dollars, if it's joe blow fron hickory hollows it could be $5,000.00 the idea is for it to hurt. Now having said all this most judgements of unintended plagiarism are settled somewhere between these outcomes. In the Harrson case while royalties were handed over no destruction of the phonocord my sweet lord was ordered. In the Lennon case which was settled out of court additional royalties were generated by the rock and roll album to compensate the injured party. There was a subsequent action in that matter but it related to damage to artistic integrity by breach of contract. Which Lennon won with a four hundred odd grand punitive damage award. Here endeth the copyright rant which is copyright BTW Cheers Gary

The chorus is very stable The verse is not unstable enough and no spotlight as you say. Line lengths of 6&7 not different enough. The trick is to build expectation and then dash said expectation to create instability and a spot light. So long line short line long line the listener expects a short line next so you give them a long line but you resolve the short line With your rhyme so that what comes after it is spotlighted. Then because you have a semi resolved pattern you then put in a very short or ver long last line to throw it off balance. Remember you are only using line length and number of lines to create stability and instability not rhyme this week .trythis The spring rain will quench my thirst It’s been a long time drought I can’t stand when it’s dry I look to the clouds and shout at the heavens Tears I Must cry It's the best I can do at 5am Cheers Gary