Joe51

No problem. The beta version crashes often when using the mixing board, but the last full version doesn't handle vst as well... just fyi. I use the beta so I can use some vst amps that don't work with the last full version. Audacity does a good job of not losing data when it crashes, so I just deal with the mixer problem.

Appreciate the advice Retro!

I use Audacity which is a fairly straight forward program made for armatures. Also free, which is always a consideration. . The most difficult part is figuring out how to record sound. My acoustic has a preamp, so I hook it directly to the line in on my PC. What I get is far less than the quality I want, but I can get something to work with. I will usually add a clean amp effect to help cover the white noise I always seem to get. Again, not great quality, but will suffice for my purposes of learning to mix, eq, ect. I actually plug my base into a little karaoke machine that serves as the pre and rigged its output to the line in on my PC. Mostly just so I can hear it while I record, but the bass actually does much better than the guitar... Not really sure why. Simpler signal maybe... idk. If you're working with equipment that cannot plug to your line in, you may consider a usb mic for recording purposes. They are fairly inexpensive. I haven't used one since I use the karaoke machine to process the mic signal, but from what I've heard, they are probably a better setup than what I am using.

@ Sakura: Don't worry about being late. Education is more important than anything else you're working on. With out it, I wouldn't be able to afford any gear. All questions are decent. Some answers are not, but I haven't seen that around songstuff. These guys do a fantastic job! Mike, You're bullet points there are very insightful. I think we all know this, but don't realize what we know, which makes it hard to use. In my limited experience, you're absolutely right about software letting you break out. As everyone does, after learning the basics, I started tinkering and trying to come up with easy repetitive songs. Taking these same songs and layering them with other ideas can really be an eye opener. In a way, it becomes clear that nothing overly complicated is going on here. For all the time we spend studying music, it really does come down to building and releasing tension and the different ways to do that. When I look at the songs I like to play, I no longer see good or bad. It's more like developed or rough draft. Eventually you realize, most popular music is very simple in form. It's just layered to the point where performing the song through a single instrument sounds weak or off somehow. I don't know garage band. I've been using audacity. There are several others, but so far all I have tried have been inferior to audacity, which has its own problems, but the vst handling in the beta version is great. I haven't got try your website, yet, John. I'm suffering from chronic broken string syndrum. . I should have 10 sets in the mail tomorrow though, so maybe by the weekend, I'll get a chance to play.

Hello good people. I found some useful freeware I thought you guys might like. Lately, I spend more time trying to learn to sing well than I do anything else. I tell friends and family that it has been much harder to sing than play the guitar. They all think I'm crazy. lol. It really sucks to be able jam some fun songs that everyone knows and loves, but I can't carry a tune in a freakin bucket. lol. I found this program last week, and I am trying to make use of it. Maybe you can too. Basically it's a tuner for your voice. They claim some other useful features, but I haven't got many of them to work as expected. I am using it to internalize the sound of me singing certain notes. I intend to expand into learning entire scales using this thing to check myself for accuracy. My stumbling block has been the fact we don't hear our voice the same way we are perceived or recorded. Something to do with the vibration of the skull and facial tissue... idk.. sounds like bs to me, but the effect has become obvious as I started recording myself regularly. I found I had a real lack of consistency and many times my ears said good but really was very bad. I think this software will help with that. This program plots your pitch on a graph showing the notes in real time. It also has a real time indicator of what note your singing. It does require your computer is mic'd. I use the line in. Not sure what it will do if you use the mic port. Have fun and good luck!! www.singintune.org

I haven't really experimented at all. I realize there would be great value, but I have yet to seriously approach timing issues in my playing. I may be getting the cart before the horse, but that seems to be a recurring theme for me. I do intend to really focus on this, but since I don't often play with other musicians, it hasn't been an issue that has forced my hand, yet. I found it fairly easy to keep time with myself. . lol Since you were kind enough to do the research for me, I won't be able to resist tinkering this weekend, so I appreciate the link. I will undoubtedly make use of it.

What a great discussion regarding the creative process. I want to thank both of you for all that typing. My fingers hurt just thinking about it. Great read though. Thank guys. I really don't know that I could add much. I really just wanted to say thanks, but since I felt to compelled to reply, I will add my perspective on the initial question. I am likely among the least experienced that participate here, but I have been motivated, and have had some small successes. To qualify my advice, I have only been playing for about a year and a half. Like you, I have notebooks full of what I call songs, but nothing really developed beyond the initial idea. I recently took a couple songs from my notebook, a song written by a friend here at work, and a song by spock, and just jumped in trying to make them sound good. Below is a general outline of how I went about it. (Yours is on my chopping block for the next couple of weeks, Spock. ) I play guitar, so my answer will be geared in that direction. I think John Micheal gave great advice. I always start with a chord progression and rhythm pattern that I am proficient with. The intervals and timing are what's important here. The particular notes mean nothing to me, yet, other than being notes I play very well together. So basically I will start trying to cram the lyrics into one of the progressions I am really good at using a timing and pattern I am comfortable with. This is really just a trial and error method. Obviously, I can decide if I want it to sound bright or dark or how much contrast I want, but really it's just trial and error. Once I have something pleasing that goes with the verse, I need to focus on the notes I want to use. I have basically found the intervals I want to use and the pattern and timing I want to use them in. The intervals are still subject to change, but the rhythm of the song is set, and the intervals give me a take off point to experiment. Now I'm going to start experimenting in a different direction. Lets try all the same but start with a different note. Lets see which scales I know that have all the notes I am using and change the key a few times. Lets try different scales that would fit and change the key a few times. This sounds like stabbing in the dark, but really I have an idea of these things when I start and that idea has been developing as I worked a rough progression into it. If something sticks with the verse, I know I'm finishing this song. For me, the hard part is over. Now, I'll start thinking about how to offset the chorus and the bridge. This is a little less than trial and error. Since you have the verse mapped, other parts of the song have limited options (at my skill level anyway). I'll take a look at what scale and key I'm playing in for the verse. This gives me a starting place to think about bridge and chorus. Then it's pointed trial and error. What gives me the sound (emotion) I wanted. To me, this part seems easier. You have defined the theory you want to use during the verse, so this is all about timing and emphasis. Assuming no road blocks, I can now strum the entire song. Once you can do this, your on the last leg of the race. You have established you're timing, scale, and key. What I'll do next is record my strumming of the song along with half hearted lyrics (i'm a terrible singer) to have something to work with. Taking that recording, I'll record me just going through the scale I used on my guitar against the back drop of the strum and lyrics track. After doing this a few times, some great ideas emerge for melody. The last song I looked at, I did about 6 takes, and kept the best of each of them. After that, it's learning your own song just like you learn one from the radio. Just listen and repeat. Now that I have two guitar tracks, I'll make a real effort to sing. Likely I'll add a bass track, since I just picked up a bass guitar a few weeks ago. Many will digitally add drums, synth, or effects, but I haven't really advanced into all that, yet. Once you can strum the entire song on the guitar, you have an outline that will let you take the song anywhere you want. I haven't played with piano or keyboard much, so I'm not sure how well my process would carry over, but I expect it's very similar. Long story short: Start small to establish timing, scale, and key. Once you have those things, use what theory you know and google to keep it moving. Thanks again guys. I expect to read this thread a few more times.

Thanks for the encouragement, John. I'll check out the software you mention in time. Right now I'm just excited to record a few things, as you could imagine. Necessity is the mother of invention, right? With the current state of the economy here in the U.S. I couldn't imagine dropping a few hundred just to support my hobby. My wife actually hates it that I do things this way. To be fair, not all of my ideas are as successful as this one was. LOL. The tin foil fuse in the tv ended with a pop and the oscillating fan I re-wired ended with lots of smoke. So she was begging me not to plug into the PC. LOL. Now that I know how to get audio between the PC and a/v chords, I am scheming on ways to rig this up with my primary sound system at home. I expect the same way I get audio in, but in reverse. If you don't see me for a few days, my wife probably killed me.

Up until last night, recording was somewhat of a pain in the . I had to use my video camera - upload to pc - rip audio from the video (subpar audio anyway) or drive an 1.5 hours to a friends house that has nice equipment. As you can imagine, many great ideas (at least i thought so) have been lost. I figured this thing out though. I took my daughters karaoke machine, and spliced the audio out cables to a jack like what plugs your computer speakers in. I plugged that into the audio input on my PC and downloaded audacity. Now at the touch of the button, I can record w/e I want! Switch the mic out for my guitar cord, and I can bang out any little thing that I think sounds good using my comp for an amp and recording at the same time. Switch from the guitar to bass, and I can add a baseline. Plug the mic back in and add vocals. Best part.... Didn't cost me a dime. Just about 40 minutes with chords I already had, a pocket knife, and a little electric tape. Obviously I'm not getting high quality sound, but for just laying out some ideas or building a stockpile of licks and rhythms to use, I'm very excited about my creation. I wish I had taken pictures to upload. It's really amusing to see. I can't wait to get home and tinker around to see just how good I can make it sound. I figure getting some real connectors instead of splicing wire and playing with all the volumes and downloading some effect that run through the computer, and I'll be recording music I'm quite proud of for not spending a dime on equipment. Everyone on this forum seems so polished and well equipped, I thought you guys might get a kick out of this.

Ya don't give it up. Just keep fingers on the strings. The more time you have fingers on the strings, the easier all things become. It seems hard now, but when your tips are hard as stone and your hand is strong enough to crush a baseball, you'll wonder why this seemed difficult. The baseball thing might be an exaggeration. Seriously, even if they won't admit it. Everyone that plays died a little when trying their first chord progression. If it was easy everyone would play.

Your really not going to get a guitar worth learning on for less than $120 US. And at that, you are getting the laminate versions, but many of them make decent beginner models. Washburn and Epiphone both have models in this price range that I looked at a while back. They seemed like they would be good enough. I ended up buying a second hand solid top for $220. If you really want your guitar to sing, you need to shell out the extra dough for a solid top guitar. Listening to mine up against some of the beginner models out there, there is no comparison. Solid is better. Buyers tip - if it doesn't say its solid, you can bet it's not. Spruce laminate is still plywood. I've also heard bad things regarding the NATO being used in beginners models, but I have no experience to speak from there. A friend told me to him it stands for not a real tree. As far as learning how to play one, this varies greatly with natural aptitude and coordination, but learning to play properly is a life long journey. Ive been playing for about a year and a half with no formal training, and I can pick up on many simple chord progressions and play through major pentatonic scale fairly fluently. There's also quite a bit, I just don't bother with, yet. How you progress will depend on what you want to do, and how much time you put into it. good luck!

Just 2 or 3? Seems like every time I improve somewhere, it highlights another flaw. I'll keep it basic though. I need to play cleaner. I need to play softer most of the time, and I need stay out of my comfort zone. The first two just take focus, but the last is difficult. Frustration always leads me back to something pleasing. Instant gratification is for gamers... this stuff is hard!! lol.

wow they are amazing. little beyond my skill level at the moment, but thnx for sharing. very inspiring.

nice hairdo. looks so young... amazing.

Didn't get to watch. Not currently available. Maybe later.