Donna
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Posts posted by Donna
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Hey Tom,
That is a very good question. Which makes me stop and ask myself.
* Yes, I want them to sound independent. BUT, I also think, owing to the differences in guitar parts, it might warrant differentiation in sound itself. One guitar is a bit dreamy, with suspended notes and more ring, while the other is grounded both in triad notes being emphasized and anchoring kind of rhythym.
"A clean split" sounds like too much of a degree, but maybe it wouldn't be.
In any case, I welcome your suggestions, because even if they don't apply in this case, I'm sure they will in another.
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Tom~
It's totally OK.
Donna (aka the artist who's posted one song in 13 months)
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No worries! I am grateful for your help.
Yes, I am using two mics each time I record a guitar part. And no guitar amp - it's a straight acoustic.
Possibly anticipating your next question, the last time I recorded guitar I used two "Nady" DM-70's - the info says "dynamic, neodymium cartridge, unidirectional cardoid" (is that a condenscer mic?) It's sold as a drum mic and was hot as pistons when placed on the toms, and great sound I thought! Some good soul gave it to me. Otherwise I use an SM58 or 57 can never remember, and a condenscer mic.
One mic placed in front of me, off to the left, aimed at about 4th fret. That's more so I won't bump it when playing. One mic, almost straight in front, aimed off to the right of soundhole. I've done it other ways (to the bridge and 12th fret -maybe didn't mess w/ trims and etc; enough).
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ATom,
I guess I have "track eq" then?
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Great questions.
1) No - I'm using two mics per guitar line
2) No: but the portastudio's mixer has 2 channels for eq on effects. Actually, I suppose it could be any channels, but I use them with 5 and 6...they're plugged in that way. Per the picture, channels 5 and 6 - Trim is red, eq orange (two gains and two sweepable freq per channel) + pan and faders...the blue/green are effects volume (so to speak), kinda like the montior mix gains.
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Hey all,
Once again, need your help...and thanking you in advance.
I think my question on guitar sounds would apply even if I wasn't bouncing tracks, btw (working w/ a 4-track). It could also apply for co-lead vocals, I suspect.
Anyway, in the configuration of the song I'm working on, at least the rough draft goes like this, including panning:
a) drums & sequencer (organ/strings/bass) - panned almost fully left and right -tracks 1 & 2
two acoustic guitars, w/ chorus effects - panned about 10 o'clock/2 o'clock....this is where I'm doing the bounces or pingponging of tracks. Where one guitar is recorded along with playback of tracks 1 & 2...then the whole process repeated for 2nd guitar. c) two tracks left open for vox, panned almost straight center.
As far as
goes, first I'm having trouble in the sounds of the acoustics being distinuished from one another, after they've been recorded, that is. Once I've done the "bounce" with the 2nd guitar, there's no going back, if something's amiss the process of needs to be redone. So the eq and so on must be set pretty much as I go and cannot be individually tweaked upon mixdown.Secondly, when I record the guitars w/ chorus, all seems well...but when mixing and I add some reverb for the whole thing, the chourused guitar sounds seem to disappear. Any ideas why?
Thirdly...when you guys say "cut at ___" or "boost at____", a lot of times this doesn't make sense to my ears. What I'm beginning to suspect (am I right to?) is that it might NOT make sense to my ears, because of something Prometheus had stated: that nothing in 100 yrs of using this (multitrack recording technology) would suggest having each ind. track sounding great, will equal a great mix. That's it's the whole which must be considered.
I hope I'm making sense in these questions.
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Steve, thought provoking post.
Maybe if we're ever stuck, a change in the writing process might get things moving again. Maybe we'd be best off writing with a certain method-technology according to seasons in life or mood.
Maybe one reason I'm happy not using the pc is because the writing method-tech has pretty much been the same since day one.
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John, that's great!
Yeah, I'm planning to enter.
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Hey Nick, have you yet posted your acoustic number? I'd like to hear what you've done with the engineering/mix aspects.
Thanks~
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What way do you find most productive to start writing a song? Do you start with a song concept? Do you start with lyrics? Melody? Rhythm?
It varies, but lately, it begins with an image, or a feeling to convey, so in a sense there is a concept, but also it's detective work - finding the song. In the past the lyric was usually first and as I wrote, the rythym and melody would come.
Do you have a common way of developing your original idea?
Yes, by simply playing it things often develop. Also, by playing it, it becomes familiar and development can come into one's head while simply going about the day.
At what point do you start recording?
Almost immediately. Thank goodness for blasters with built in mics!
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John - now calling it a brain dump puts things in perspective! I'd never put a name to doing this, but once the lyric was there on paper I thought it kinda sacred (not *I* sacred).
Mon Capitaine, I think you got me out of doing this. The little Christmas contest last year. Or maybe it was the whole board. But somehow in conversing with other writers, a new detachment came and I had periods of looking at the thing as something to shape - both lyric and music. Hard to explain.
What I remember specifically was looking at the brain dump/sacred lyric and asking, "is that the way I want the story to go?" So first, I thought of the lyric as a story. Second, I acknowledged that story could go any of a dozen ways...then thirdly, I kinda found "which" way, just by what I thought might be an interesting story, or one I was at least comfortable with.
Some lyrics are so personal that comfort becomes a necessity.
I didn't at all agree with the Lord of the Rings filmmakers doing this, where they declare "We thought it wasn't so important that Gandalf [or whoever] said "their" line, but that SOMEONE said it."
With writing original material, though, one can put the personal in and yet add other things, which can obscure some of the too personal - in a way "having someone else" say it, so that both expression and comfort are in a nice balance. Detachment I think is a fruit of this, or maybe a cause. But those three are a good trio! That's what the board has taught me.
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I didn't like the Martin acoustic I tried, and the Cort is now off my list, too.
Electric...that one of Bleem's he let me try, long ago.
I'm no help -
t/goodness you've given the key, hari, else i wouldn't have a clue...
now i iv v, i can understand
-typing w/ a very tired 3 yr old on lap
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Case closed!
Truly, Mon Capitaine just gave the whole recipe.
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Prometheus, hello. Man it got really cold here and the basil and sunflowers and michaelmas dasies and cosmos are just shot.
Will you clarify the statement below (re: Night)? Does it mean that orginally you had all instruments going dur. the middle 8, then switched off everything but bass on the middle 8 during mixdown? It cannot mean that, can it? Might work for 8 bars - once - but not for the back n forth p to FF in my tune.
Although I'm intrigued mightily w/ this idea...the idea of the signal - and the playing - having the presence by itself that it normally would when the dynamic level swells.
This is why you keep suggesting the beringer, right?
There is a middle eight in this one where there is a massive dynamic drop out. This is achieved simply by dropping everything out into just a dual layered bass guitar line with a high and low Octave, the high one with a sweeping phaser on it -
Wow, it worked! (Putting the picture in)
This is not my unit, found a picture, though. Which might help clarify limitations and such of what I'm working with.
Red knobs - trim
Orange - eq
blue/green - effects
Channels 5 & 6 are for effects or extra plug in's if playing live.
I haven't even scratched the surface of what it can do, apparently editing videos w/ music and all.
+++++++++++
Well the pic is at end of page one.
The eq is "tierd" - two knobs on top of each other (w/ two knobs or four tiers per channel, if that makes sense).
Upper tier is gain, lower the sweepable eq.
Also, for the monitor mix gains (green collection o' knobs upper right of picture), there is a "lower tier" for panning WHICH I AIN'T BEEN ABLE TO USE but now I shall due to AKG hospital...sickening what one can get reduced to, but there you go.
So I'm sure you can understand why I love my colorful little 4 track.
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JB, fortunately my portastudio has a pretty good mixer, w/ sweepable eq, two tiers, one for htz and one for "k" (up to 8 k). It's a tascam 246. But it's worth thinking about a separate mixer.
JB just curious about the ride cymbal...had you listened to the mix on a deck(s) with speakers before you made it a master mix?
I guess that'd be sort of a monitors-once-removed, huh? That's where I'm at for the time being and looking forward to enlightenment in the future.
At any rate, the AKG's won't spill the sound which is a big problem with the tune I'm working on. It'll just be really nice to record with BOTH sides of the good headphones working.
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Hey Nick - thanks for all the info and link.
I was surprised to hear this guy say the soundhole. The method you use of two mics and placement sounds familiar, I'd read that on Songstuff resource and had been experimenting but never micing "to" the soundhole since. Interesting you prefer not going direct and R. Thompson's onstage set up.
Well I'll keep body size and all in mind as the guitar search continues.
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Any opinions/experince on something a guitarist/owner guitar shop said:
1) He never goes direct with acoustic guitar and prfers to use a "stereo" omnidirectional (I don't think that was the term, tho) mic *aimed at the soundhole, not the neck*. Said the sweet spot is by soundhole.
2) Also said the large body acoustics which sound great and can compete unplugged (as it were) in acoustic gigs such as folk thing even gospel (choir I'm sure he meant) end up reaping phase cancellation in recordings...that a smaller body'd instrument will cut thru in the mix.
Hey: I had a great time tonite visiting drum shop, repair shop and guitar store, played 4 acoustics, def. leaning away from the Cort, anybody ever hear of Canadian Seagull I think it's called?
The funnest parts besides trying stuff out is knowing enough to talk about recording with both repair and guitar store guys. That is due to this little forum! The drums I already know about, and have my eye on a GREAT set of high-hats which are more expensive than the seagul and martin axes I played!
Hey! My AKG's (headphones) are in the AKG hospital, finally, woo-hoo, gimme some brewski's
What a nice thing to hear that the repair is doable and cost effective, but also that due to them being such an OLD model, the repair god there said they're much stronger and better made.
Now I have been without my AKG's since they went kaput about 6 babies ago. So it'll be like having brand new monitiors.
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Yeah, meant you too, Mon Cap.
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JB, I want to hear it, too ~
We both will as soon as I finish scoring, learn to play everything in time, nail down the engineering and eq-as-I-go because of the bounce, actually record it, and get the teenager to make the cassette master into an MP3.
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Prometheus, how did you know I've been musing about the rec. room? I hadn't even mentioned that!
Coincidently I'd just read one of your articles here the past few days and saw the above formula therein.
Time to think again - thanks for all your help.
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Hey, I've been here a year. I wanted my birthday post to be in Recording Studio.
March (2006) - got a good map from John on how to plan the rec. + lots of info I needed straight on technical things, got splitter jacks and some missing misc gear.
May - began scoring bass. Gave that up after about 6 measures. Too nuanced and difficult to hear the parts. Spent a lot of time marvelling at the layers of Loonan in there, though (bass, 2 guitars, organ, strings).
June - practiced stage 1 etc of rec. Had 4 yr old set drum levels. Tried in vain to find pyayer to help me w/ bass chores. Did a (cough) rough mix w/ all 9 parts to make sure it could be done
July/Aug - realized the focus needed was impossible w/ children at home so took the summer off. No go on finding a guitarist to help.
September - Realized the only way out is through. Mentally began preparing to learn the guitars (and singing while plucking), no matter how long it takes. Began scoring the bass (possibly started that again in August).
Oct 4 - the 3 guitars are scored! Bass, 1st and 2nd guitars.
I have never listened so intently to a song in my life. I have never picked guitar like I'm learning to do.
So it's a happy birthday! I've learned so much in this year at Songstuff
two acoustic guitars, w/ chorus effects - panned about 10 o'clock/2 o'clock....this is where I'm doing the bounces or pingponging of tracks. Where one guitar is recorded along with playback of tracks 1 & 2...then the whole process repeated for 2nd guitar. 
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How To Make Two Guitars, Distinct?
in Music Production and Recording
Posted
Prometheus, thanks for chiming in! You know I'll save/retain what you've just said about the low string 84 htz and all.
Hey, do you know of a link that lists the instruments and all that to their frequencies? I'm a bit muddled right now and not able to search it out for myself...