[If You Had To Go Without Guitar For A Month, What Would You Do?]

hee hee

[If You Had To Go Without Guitar For A Month, What Would You Do?]

I now understand this question.

Mark, it's unthinkable...to go without

[Calloused Verily]

Hey Rudi~

Yeah, that's kind of puzzling. I'd think with the increased callouses the fingers wouldn't get sore, but mine still do, or can. Thanks for letting me know what's normal!

Re: dedication - just going with the flow....grateful for the motivation. Maybe this is the channel to help right the vacuum of recent deaths. But I must say I also credit Lazz for me re-visiting this kind of study.

"Hope this work is useful for compositional musical ideas"

I'm glad you mentioned this. I know for a fact that it will be, and probably already is. Can't quite explain all those connections - suffice to say it's a gold mine of related things. Even stuff like beginning to understand "is the key C# (with constant B natural) - or is it Db - why or why not?" That sort of thing, which is a tremendous help for me scoring existing melodies. It's another tool for me - if I can see the song in written beads and stems, it's easier to then make up others. I like to think about musical abstracts, I like the relationships (female thing helps here).

There's something current I'm working on, and it's taking shape much more easily because of the study. In finding right chords (often substitutions) + now I've a fighting chance to run some descending melodic thing for a measure...my fingers are knowing where to go, both position wise and knowing-the-scale wise. I think this song is becoming beautiful and complete.

Somehow figuring out the notes ("that's a Dm 9 chord")and becoming familiar with the cycle of 5ths + traids is helping me craft this song. Which I always loved to do, but could get so stuck when the well of intangible inspiration dried. Knowledge seems like a surer foundation.

[Song Title Association Game]

Let Me Roll It - Wings

[Calloused Verily]

Thanks, y'all.

The callouses are getting harder. I'm up to doing routine 5 in scales for "review", though R. 1 is still at the almost-doing the whole cycle of 5ths, with rythym cards, fluidly.

Wow - the traids are beginning to make sense! I can play each of them, and getting to know 'em by memory. The Ab triad is a great pinky stretch/exercise. It's easy to see how thoroughly the first 5 frets of the neck could be mastered, just like Dick Grove claims.

The book is called The Encyclopedia of Basic Harmony and Theory Applied to Improvisation on All Musical Instruments Volume I.

It is what the title says!

[Thumb Position]

Hi you guys!

Thanks for chiming in every one, it's helpful. I continue to experiment w/ thumb position. Nick, that breakdown is really cool.

And I find it hopeful that's it's possible to use the thumb for fretting. Maybe not this season anyway, for me. It's just so weird to use digits at all, in this way. I had some deft drum teachers and myself too, you'd realize after a point that the fingers did play a big part in drumming. But the stick itself wielded strength.

Oh! Little progress here. That Eb Ma7 (?) xx1333, starting to get it; the thumb, fingers and hand all began forming their own comfortable (or at least not killing me) position. From there to the F barre, it went the same kinda way, a way I'd never done the F barre before. It makes one want to keep with it, just to see if one will completely turn the corner.

[Trouble Finishing Lyrics]

Yeah - I'm gonna try that, Skinny.

[Songwriter / Lyric Writer Poll]

Hey John,

About 80% potentials become finished songs for me. Which is comforting to realize.

How long? Tis truly all over the map. One good song, the lyric came out almost exactly as finished in one fell swoop, a matter of minutes. The music was done in less than an hour. Recently, I used a section of music written over 15 years ago, to a newly started song (finished pretty much soon as I inserted the long unused missing section).

But other stuff...it takes longer now than it used to. Four months, I think.

Nightwolf's little open/closed I can relate to.

[Calloused Verily]

Hi you guys~

Today I noticed anew my calloused fingertips - now there's a slight string indent atop most of 'em as well. I guess this is just par for the course? Never played enough that this happened before.

I told someone (a writer, not of songs) that I have so many guitar irons in the fire right now, what did he think about that? He said the same thing is going on w/ him and he hadn't a clue. I said that I think I'm supposed to be working on everything, maybe more attention to certain things at certain times, but keep hitting most of the spokes, as it were.

Many of the songs I'm working on, I really have to work! I'm learning new chords/progressions and experimenting a lot with thumb position and how things can fit together w/ the least physical strain. Began working on a 3rd cover (Sail on Sailor) when the other two I've far from mastered. Yet the progress is there.

My own stuff, I have added simple and sparse things, either fingerings, motiffs, chord inversions or so on; working on these changes - plus starting to add the singing. Plugged into an amp is another new thing to get used to.

Obstinately working on scales - via a Dick Grove book. Lesson One is "complete mastery of major scales as applied to your instrument." There are 6 "routines" (w/ choice of 2 starting points) in Lesson One: like starting at C, playing an octave of the scale, going thru the cycle of 5ths. You do these to "rythym cards A & B" - 4 measures toto - which include accents, tie, triplet (and one stacatto note). One routine of cycle of 4ths, and then the other 4 routines are chromatic or chromatic/cycle of 5ths.

The goal is to go smoothly thru the entire 6 routines w/ strict accuracy, increasing fluidity/tempo. I almost got thru R. 1, and immediately said, "baby! You're set to work on triads now!" Cause he says review each time, so the review will be what I almost did, once. Soon I'll get it whole. Then the review will be routine 2, and so on.

So yeah, next the guy has major triads; then chromatic triads (ascend in C, descend in Db major [same measure] onto ascend in D, descend in Eb major, etc;); then major 7ths, then maj 7th chromatic. All done in the 6 routines, to "rhythym cards A & B".

So...I figure lesson one will be my pal for roughly two + seasons, if I still care by then!

I hope I stick with it, though. What a foundation that would be!

It's been 6 weeks I've been playing about 5 days a week, lotta hours. It's to the point where I can see if I keep on, there will be a bar of consistency. Anyway, that's where I've been. It's good too in that trying to make my stuff more interesting than simply strumming chords, is another way to songwrite. The tunes and passages go thru my head and I write (embellish or add) while thinking...then try to play it as I hear. SFSG

Cousin Bruce and I should be getting together in a month or so. I'll be interested in his opinion about any progress made.

[How Do You Write Your Lyrics?]

Good thread.

About everything said I can relate to as a lyricist.

I tend to think in lyrical form (I think! ). Reckon that sometimes include melody too.

Lyrics for me are tied to rythym so I tend to think lyrics in structured forms. And also craft them that way. I actually like threes (not 3/4 time) but ch. or verse in threes.

John Moxey's method of direction and all: he's winning me over to this! It's almost like transferring knowledge of say clarinet, to learning sax - so it's not like starting from scratch. It's a more conscious way of being a craftsman. But I can still use stuff that has just come to me in spontaneous thought, as it were. OR reject that same stuff, which I might reject anyway! Editing is also what we're about, I reckon, whether we know it or not.

[Acoustic Guitar Amps]

John, this is probably different from what you want, but I'm going to buy an American made amp called Centaur. It's a mini PA...female mic input, one instrument channel, one line in channel. I know little about amps; am getting this as an affordable playing out companion. It sounds good to my ears. It is 125 watts (300 for input?), 15" (?) horn w/ a tweeter (wrong word, some other similiar word is used now). It's 400.00 used. They let me try it for 3 days at home.

Spoke to cousin Bruce about this brand recently and he hadn't heard of it, though.

For each musical channel (one mic, one 1/4 " jack) there's a built in reverb and low, mid and hi tone control + of course, separate volume controls. It's somewhere between 15-25 pounds. There's a newer Centaur model, 800.00, a tiny cube only 6 pounds.

[Thumb Position]

if I am play in the first 5 frets area my thumb moves roughly in a line across the back of the neck roughly corresponding to just behind the second fret. Starting with the tip of my thumb at roughly level with the 5th string when I am playing on the high E and B strings, to the tip of my thumb level with the center line when playing on the low E and A. I find this is a small enough movement, and it still acts as an effective reference and allows me to have good finger position on the strings.

John...center line meaning?

Also, hadn't thought of the thumb as being a reference point, makes sense.

[Getting Sponsered By Yamaha]

Interesting thread!

(Let us know how things turn out, funkee)

[Song Title Association Game]

Cowboy - Three Dog Night

[Monitors - Opinion Please]

Ah, but now I'm wanting a guitar amp first!

One of those folk things, where acoustic and mic can be plugged into, sorta PA-like.

It's a change of direction, to be sure. I'm working to play out, that feels right, and oddly enough more do-able than recording at this point.

[Advice On How To Record A Phone Message?]

What a novel idea, Atom. I like the sound of it.

Just plug the headphone jack into...the channel/recording input?

[Reliable Tablature Sites?]

Dang. Was looking for a shortcut.

Oh well. You're right, Mon Capitaine, doing it the old slow way, nothing is equal to it.

I'm glad it's not just me!

But I confess I was hoping you'd yay or nay what I came up wiff 'Salright. I probably have it fine.

Golden Years, Go ooh old wop wop wop

[Thumb Position]

Steve~ yeah, that makes sense, the classical poisition lending greater ease to vertical fingering.

Nightwolf ~ I'm glad you said that. I was figuring some people hadn't took note of thumb position. I'll be interested to find out your observations.

BTW, I have this odd and wonderful guitar book my son picked up somewhere. In it is a picture of a little girl, about eight, playing a full size acoustic, plus a few pictures of her demo-ing chords. It really is inspiring - "if she can do it..." Anyway, the author is mostly classical and jazz. There are a zillion chords illustrated and I think that's where I first noticed the bent thumb in some pics.

[Songwriting Critique]

Word!

Ahwoooo! You're back (((Nightwolf)))

[Reliable Tablature Sites?]

Well, I'm looking into reading tabs now.

The thing is, the one I popped off for a Bowie song, my own figuring out a ceratin part was way more accurate than the tab writer's. I'm not talking a minor descrepancy, but the wrong scale. Otherwise, the rest of the song seems fine. Believe me, it'd be a lot easier doing the riffs in question, with his version!

Any reliable tab sites, then?

Mucho gracio ~

PS: Should I post what I'm talking about, I mean would anyone care about judging on the Bowie tune, which notes are correct? I only put this out there cause if somehow I'm in error - don't see how I could be tho - it'd mean the difference of being able to learn this song probably weeks sooner. Which would be really cool. The tune is Golden Years.

[Thumb Position]

Hey all~

I've become very interested in thumb position. Just want to say what I'm trying and would appreciate others' experience or suggestions on this.

I don't know if it was my grade school training on string bass or what, but I'd had it in my head that the thumb should be quite extended, stationary for the most part, and at about the middle of the back of the neck. But didn't realize I'd had that 'rule of thumb' literally til recently.

This position kills after awhile on an acoustic guitar. I began wondering is it necessary to do it this way?

Never understood how r -n- r guys can have that thumb wrapped around the neck, close to the E string, or maybe fretting the E w/ the thumb, for all I know! I cannot stretch my fingers to do barre's on the A string, for one, wiff that thumb position (ie C barre chord beginning at 3rd fret)

But I have been experimenting w/ bending the thumb, kinda wrapping it around the neck and so on while doing scales. Blessed relief, that! I have to remind myself to bend it, and to move the thumb position up the neck.

I'm esp. interested in maybe how long it took some of you to master the position of barre chords on the A string, and is your thumb extended and placed on the back of the neck or what? Ditto for putting even the index finger to fret two or more strings at the same time, like if you were doing a run with hammer/pull offs.

Thank ye.

[Songwriting Critique]

Good question.

I'm not ignoring it, I've been thinking about it and am unsure what is important to me. A fair amt can be subjective, too, what grabs the writer, what grabs the critiquer.

I can say what I try to do when giving critiques: if something works and the piece is from an experienced writer, there's more I won't mention. I probably wouldn't say "the chord structure resolves nicely" or whatever, because they already know that, and I know that, and we know that the other knows it. So then the critique would tend to pickier or more refined points (maybe) - or I'd focus on what was outstanding, including performance!

When the writer is newer in experience or knowledge, more needs to be said and it should be fairly specific, what seems to work, what doesn't, and why. Or suggestions as to why.

Expectations on receiving a critique: What isn't always helpful is a "what" comment without a "why". Even on American Bandstand, the "I'd give that song a 95" were followed by, "It's got a good beat, I can dance to it." OTOH, as I said before, when something works, that's when the least comments might be made ie, "Great work!" There's nothing else to say, the song is stellar.

What I'd expect to receive on critiquing others' is

a) increased knowledge in song structure and like things

the good will of the writer - at least for taking the time to give hopefully some thoughtful feedback

[Advice On How To Record A Phone Message?]

Wahh, You Tube is not for Me Tube. Unfortunately like w/ a fair amount of music, I cannot access this, Prometheus, w/out broadband.

But hey, I like your recording idea, thanks much!

[Advice On How To Record A Phone Message?]

"you know what I mean smartass"

Hi Steve - you've waked up to notice that now.

Everytime I looked at the subject question while posting and how it was worded, it appeared to me as if I was asking how to use a phone machine - hence the smartass.

O well - maybe I'll just whistle with ya.

[Guitar Practice]

Hey, I like the approach all three of you use.

John, I'm trying to practice guitar (well, I am, but for how long dunno).

I'm doing bits of things, about half of them sound rather awful, but no pain no gain, ya know?

a) a warm up trying the supportive fingering technique (chromatic sort of)

scales - I'm doing this slowly, only using one octave, and in this way: going through all keys a-g, but in the cycle of 5ths. So I begin A (A E B F -yeh- flat 5th here Rudi- C G D), then begin on B (B F C G D A E). As a drummer, it'd never been ingrained, the cycle of fifths, so trying to do the scales and THINK "E scale, B scale" etc while I'm doing them, it's got to sink in. I try to run through the whole 8 keys in a steady rythym.

This will be varied in time, to where I'm doing scales in I, IV, V and like common patterns. And adding octaves...learning the scales all over the neck, lots of stuff can be done. I'm doing it to exercise the fingers, to learn the passing notes and stuff for any kind of picking or solo, to get the patterns of 5ths, then progressions from there, and learn the neck as a whole. Then the minor and blues scales... all of that I'm motivated presently to dig into.

c) my stuff. Not trying to embellish at all yet. Just trying to play the chords in time, w/ hopefully some sensitivity. Sometimes I slow stuff wayyy down, or REALLY concentrate on rythym/dynamic. And, play stuff while singing, just to get used to playing and singing together.

d) since I only have done chords, I am trying to incorporate notes - in rythymic time- with them. Just a 4 bar phrase which is very slow going and I haven't made anyothers up yet.

e) barres are tough for me, appreciate any tips (besides switching to electric!) - I'm just trying to do the hard ones, picking them string by string, trying to make it sound good.

f) Thanks to Lazz's influence, I'm also scoring melodies and/or guitar lines now. It's a great way to learn thinking what the notes are. And it helps one learn to read more fluently.

My cousin Bruce - who's totally accomplished in lead, rhythym, singing and now becoming quite a writer from what I've heard - he was so cool when hearing me struggle thru my stuff (being around Auntie before she died cause they're a road trip away, is why I ever had the chance to do this - had only played in front of my children previously). He said, " Well, it'll be good for you to have some time to work on your guitar technique...I learned one thing: play it the way you want it to sound, don't settle for kinda like it, or anything else." Which I've been following! I always did that with drums and singing. I think using one's digits to play is an awesome skill, and I should be happy w/ any progress, being clumsy.

Right now I'm playing either bass or guitar about 5 days a week. Hence, doing that rather than being online.

Oh - and I should say that a main goal is simply to be able to accompany myself singing so that the song can be played out. There is no accompaniest available, so I must learn how. I think by varying the things practiced, like hitting a majority of the spokes of a wheel, I'll end up better learning what the whole could be or should be...then pare down to specifics and my own niche from there.