TapperMike

Thanks Guy's I thought I'd see more participation in this thread. A funny thing about knowledge. I've got a strong foundation in jazz, r&b, rock and blues. I studied jazz played a lot of jazz, rock, blues. and I've cobbled a lot of ideas on theory from both my education and experience. When I share my ideas with jazz guys I'm preaching to the choir. They all know where I'm coming from and where I'm going. However when I share those same concepts with the classically trained they try their damnest to defeat those ideas even if I show the same ideas replicated in song after song and link to jazz guys explaining the same concept practicaly verbatim to what I typed. I started to blog about various "approaches' which can be applied beyond jazz here but I got sidetracked.

Frank Zappa - Peaches en Regalia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3yXzRe5CfI

I go through cycles. The best cycles are the goal orientated or the live performance thing. I perform best when I perform regularly. Which is something I don't do now. I have moments when playing at my peak where I ask myself "Is that all there is" I know plenty of players with strong technique knowledge and experience who, don't feel the need to push themselves. Sometimes it's best to have "your sound" and stick to it. Then again there are guys like Lenny Breau and Jeff Beck who live music as a journey and re invent themselves even if it means getting rid of some baggage from the past to do so. Where do you stand? Are you comfortable with your knowledge / technique? Are you pushing boundaries? Are those boundaries pushing back? Are you getting better, staying the same or getting worse? Do the same regiments that helped you long ago keep you going foreward? Do you have a set to do list of things to do that you believe will take you to the next level?

Ship of Fools - Robert Plant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYhDPgRvSaU

Some of us don't throw out old guitars. There are times when we just need em. We deal with what we have. Yeah I did the whole block thing and guess what.... It's still a balancing act when the fresh strings are on and the block is removed. God forbid you break a string on stage.

In regards to Band In A Box I've been a biab user for many, many years. It doesn't give one musical knowledge nor writes for you. It does make somethings much easier when it comes to writing such as Charts / Fake sheets. I've used it as a teacher especially for jazz studies and reharmonization approaches. Granted I've also used Guitar Pro for lesson work. Where BIAB truly shines is for improvisational work. In the world of rock covers the goal is always "Play it like it is" In jazz we retain the song form and the melody but everything else is up for grabs. The musicians interpret the piece rather then simply play verbatim. If you've ever had the displeasure of playing with an auto accompaniment system like those cheap keyboards sold in big box stores you quickly find out how lame and boring the accompaniment is. Band in a box isn't a simple single measure looper. It's styles take longer looks at the length of the progression and makes alterations to the background instruments over time. As well it will often change the same section when played twice. This makes the environment more realistic then say OneManBand or Chord Pulse. It's the only music software I've used everyday since I first got it a very long time ago in a distant galaxy. Band in a box is used as courseware in many colleges and universities. Many seasoned performers use band in a box for accompaniment on live gigs. Granted it doesn't do mind reading. If I have something scored out and I like the bass line but wish it were more staccato less legato it aint going to happen. However when writing via biab I'll get my form down then the individual progressions then look for a style. Once I'm happy with the main construct I'll save the .mgu and open it in Real Band where I can rewrite each instrument according to my tastes/needs. It's my foot in the door software for music writing. It also is my inspiration for looking at new ways of doing the same things. In regards to other matters. If you purchase a book for the information it offers you that you wish to apply then...You are the one doing the application work, not the computer. If you can't apply the concepts then it may mean that you didn't comprehend them or that you actually don't want to write music. When you allow someone or something to take that part of the process away from you then you can lay no claim to being able to do it for yourself. After all. It's not you writing the melody or giving the parts the characteristics that make them unique it's what ever you delegate that to. Clicking file new and then clicking generate song does not make one a songwriter. .

I've got too many stories for one thread on this subject. Rudi sums it up well. Although I have lost quite a number of gigs just because I didn't have the patience to deal with over zealous singers. The ones that can't even invest in a mic but they think they own the stage and everything associated with it.

Egad no love for BIAB? With biab when you write out chords they don't have to fit the key blindly. Key. is just a reference it uses for simple transposition. In regards to all notes and chords must stay within a given key for a song...Well I'm sorry but someone should get a refund on that book. While it's important to have a basic understanding on how chords and notes fit in a particular key. It's also very debilitating as far as a songwriter and the more you study the works of other artists the less truth you'll see in it. Generally I'll strum a few chords while I work out the progression then put them down on paper or... sorry John. I'll insert them into biab It gives me a quick direction same as writing to paper. As I usually know what type of arrangement best suits what I'm doing on guitar or ztar. I'll pull up a style from biab's library mute all the the instruments save the drums (don't kill me Tom) With the drums and my primary instrument defined I'll work from there to fill in the gaps. Band in a box is a favored tool in college jazz programs across the US and many classes require it. As a performer in group or solo settings and a teacher I've found biab indispensable. It's the only software program without fail I'll open everyday aside from my browser. I learn jazz standards more quickly then standard notation software or print. I use it as an improvisational tool and backing band while performing covers. I've used it to not only expand my knowledge but my approaches as well. It's been a weath of information. And after stating all that. If you really want to compose/write it starts with you not a program. Get a solid grasp of your instrument and a pen then go from there. A program won't make you a songwriter

Jeff "Skunk" Baxter is playing in the background what an animated character. The muppets should have used him.

Walk The Line - Johnny Cash http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7K4jH7NqUw

Bo Diddley - I'm A Man http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaC5ZKRjLUM

I actually find that form as my foundation works better. A common problem when just messing about is that...Either it's just to much fun to move on and/or you lose sight of the endgame. John has a few great articles here - http://songwriting.songstuff.com/article/process-of-writing-a-song and http://songwriting.songstuff.com/article/song-form-overview Writing from form saves me a lot of guess work and sets me up with a plan to finish what I start. Okay I've got X amount of verse to fill and x amount of chorus to fill and x amount of solo and or bridge. If I focus on the form I'm less consumed with how much I can/could write for a given section. I devote a specified amount of time to it and then move on. I'm not really qualified to speak on lyric content or quality as instrumental music dominates my personal efforts.. There are artists I know who slave over it and those who are willing to let instincts and handle things. Personally, If it doesn't have a good story with enough specifics as to the why's I lose interest in listening or reading very quickly. Which is why I'm more reluctant to contribute to the lyric forums.

Great topic There's nothing you can do that can't be done, No song you can sing that can't be sung. (All you need is Love, The Beatles) We covered a bit of this very thing here - http://forums.songstuff.com/topic/10862-is-it-better-to-be-self-taught-or-to-get-lessons/?p=199733 Just last night I was watching a Documentary on Nile Rodgers. (Chic, Sister Sledge, Duran Duran, David Bowie, Madonna, Diana Ross and many more) He was the hitmaker. He'd write, arrange, and produce other artists while backing them up on rhythm guitar. He was a conscious writer. He would take elements of real life whether his or someone else's or even someone else's material and filter it. When he wrote "Good Times" for Chic. He wrote it based on the song "Happy Days Are Here Again" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhkk1tZzNjk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AB2Y-ZsEak So we are guided by our unconscious or conscious. Often when we are guided by our unconscious what we are doing is trying to remember a song we may have heard before. If you've heard a song three times ever... It's stored somewhere in your brain but may be buried by other information that comes later. Songs never come fully formed in the brain. They evolve in time. When you become conscious that you may be touching on some pre existing material you can either throw the baby out with the bath water or you can evolve the song into something new. Songwriters, Novelists, Playwriters and Screenwriters do the same thing.

Georgia On My Mind - Ray Charles (Hoagy Carmichal) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thls_tMuFkc

Recently I've become impressed with the harpejji http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeKkJpQUiqQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zibyEL2XhRA

Not the same as writing the melody. Actually I believe there is a time when you should put other artists behind you and write from...you. Keith Richards and Mick Jagger had a string of minor hits playing covers and there was a chance that they would fall into obscurity because they didn't do any of their own writing. The Beatles liked the Stones and wrote a song that they thought would be good for the Stones. The Beatles played it, explained everything and the Stones couldn't do the song. They had no clue. When push came to shove Richards and Jagger were locked in a room and told not to come out till they had written a song. The rest was history. Don't be so absorbed with your hero's you feel you can't be as good. Just do it and do it again until you build yourself up in the direction you want to go.

It could. I love the tradition passed down by Blues and Jazz regarding interpretations of pieces. Youtube is already about that where one can learn interpretations of existing material via various styles. And to be frank a better energy would be put to use examining a particular style yourself within the framework of the material already existing. I've seen most of the Sungha Jung http://www.youtube.com/user/jwcfree videos and while I enjoy his performances I don't play anymore like him as a result. While applying different styles can be used as a catalyst to improve technique and raw inspiration from. Usually the best way is to apply what you already know in your own technique and build from there. I'm kind of sure he does the same as I rarely see him play octave licks or 13th chords, which would be the hallmark of some other players.

It's all good and I get to listen. I should get a triple score for this one. Blues Traveler with Elwood (Dan Aykryod) Blues - Rock Me Baby http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRLtEbesM2M

Bruce - Rick Springfield http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDfzVPDwBOo

When playing jazz rhythms I tend to omit the 5th or bury it in my harmonies. It allows more latitude for the soloist who might want to reach with substitutions or uncommon scales/modes.

Everything in the chain affects sound quality. An over powered signal is the first place to start. What are you trying to record (Guitar, bass, vocal) electric/acoustic? Are you using any signal processors before plugging into the multi-track? Is it line out or speaker out or amp out or headphone out? Have you adjusted the trim and the fader down?

Pedal point comes in various facets. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrxZhWCAuQw Paul McCartney plays an open G note through out the entire piece even when the chords don't always line up to support a G note he throws it in anyway. Mike Rutherford (Mike and the mechanics) Sets up a vamp over an a chord for an extended period before modulating the lick to accommodate the chord changes. Granted he's using a lot of slap back delay. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APXwdkdhC2c You can also use the pedal point as the focus of your progression and leave it. Bryan Adams "It's only love" The progression goes. D5 (D A D) C9 (C G D) Asus4 (A E A D) Bb (Bb F Bb D) Then ignores the D when it reaches for the F chord. For guys like... well you and me who have embraced supporting the harmony and using the notes from the harmony to play "connect the dots" with our melody In support of that it's hard to simply allow that type of dissonance when a pedal point is in conflict with the harmony. However if we can get beyond that dissonance to a point where the pedal point tone has consonance with the chord tone later down the line we can think of it as tension and resolution.

I know a classical teacher who needs to read this but he is so obsessed with the structured course material he's trying to turn theory into a religion. To him anything past the 18th century music theory is suspect at best heresy at worst.

Tom is right, not intended as accusation or requirement just an observation. Re Steely Dan. I had every piece of vinyl they ever put out as well as cd's.As well as both Fagen and Becker's solo work. I'd go through guitar teachers like water trying to get them to transcribe steely dan songs till I advance my own transcription skills. I saw them for the first time during the 90's. At one time I'd be able to do an entire Steely Dan show not just a set. Anyway.... Chuck E's in Love - Rickie Lee Jones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLiIe0KQ_lY

What a great track, Thanks for that Rudi. Bad Bad Leroy Brown - Jim Croce http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB_TM5AvJP0