Tips For New Lyricists

[john]

Hi

Talking about it in the songwriting discussion group the suggestion for a topic with tips for new lyricists came up.

One fact that was highlighted was the need for lyricists to at least understand music, how it goes together etc..

So tip #1 Learn about music and increase your understanding of how it works...

Cheers

John

[neoism]

So tip #1 Learn about music and increase your understanding of how it works...

can you be more specific..so it can be understood well ?

[Lazz]

tip #1 Learn about music and increase your understanding of how it works...

That's big.

How do we achieve this ?

[neoism]

How do we achieve this ?

[john]

Hey

Well I like to set a challenge....

Lazz, can I ask how you learned?

I'd also suggest that new lyricists listen to other lyricists and really try their advice....

I think learning song forms help.... we have a number of useful articles posted and about to be posted that I think will help beginners...

On music, I think learning about melody is probably the top thing. That encompasses rhythm etc and concepts such as cadence.

Cheers

John

[TaoMannaDon]

Back in the 1980's I got quite a shock when I bought my first drum machine. For years I had written songs and played my guitar while singing the words. Trying to fit those words into the bar structure of a drum machine showed me that I was just adjusting the length of my "imaginary bars" as I played my guitar. Once the drum machine confined me to a set number of measures for each line repeat in subsequent verses, I could see the importance of having a similar number of syllables in line one of verse one, two or three (etc.).

Now I use Band-In-A-Box instead of a drum machine. Even if a new lyricist didn't want to learn an instrument or chord structure or how to write a lead sheet, being able to sing or say your lyric in time with a defined structure will put them on the right path toward more music-friendly lyrics.

So my tip for new lyricists is use something that forces your lyric into an defined musical space. An instrumental version of a song that is similar to what you want to write might work. Programs like Band-In-A-Box take some time to learn but are certainly worth the effort.

Edited February 14, 2009 by TaoMannaDon

[neoism]

So my tip for new lyricists is use something that forces your lyric into an defined musical space. An instrumental version of a song that is similar to what you want to write might work. Programs like Band-In-A-Box take some effort to learn but are certainly worth the effort.

i do the same..

[Lazz]

defined musical space

Yes !!

[Boff]

I'd like to learn more about putting a melody do an already written lyric, and possibly already made music too. I'd also like to learn more about cadence, but I can't hear if the syllables are stressed or not, unless it's really clear. Any advice or good reading, preferably online?

[TaoMannaDon]

but I can't hear if the syllables are stressed or not, unless it's really clear. Any advice or good reading, preferably online?

Many dictionaries will show the stressed syllables in multi-syllable words. Check the on-line dictionaries. Maybe one of them will help.

[Inngr8]

My brother has recommended Band in a Box to me as well. Guess I need to research it a bit more. I'm not looking to compose my own music, but I would like to have a much better understanding of the mechanics of music, so that I can provide a better product as a lyricist. Anything that gives me more common ground. Is B inna B user friendly? Something without too steep a learning curve? My brother sent me a copy of AcidPro and I was humbled and buried in an afternoon. I couldn't get it off my hard drive fast enuff. Str8 text is too dry for me to follow as well, but if I could find something at entry level that would let me make simple compositions to go along with my lyrics, and then let me do more complex stuff as I master the easy stuff, I'd really be interested in that. Think I mentioned on the PA session this AM that I do well writing lyrics for existing music, but I'm having trouble getting composers to write music to go along with my already done lyrics. It has occurred to me that I might have some inherent flaw in the stand alone lyrics that is causing the composers to shy away. Would B inna B allow me to maybe compose simplistic tunes as I'm writing the lyrics, and help me create more conventional structures that would give composers a better idea where I'm going musically with the words? Or am I expecting too much?

Anything would help - Thanx - Phil

[Retrosaurus Rex]

An auto-arranger can really help understand musical structure. Can't vouch for the user-friendliness of this if you struggled with Acid Pro, but I've been using it with interesting results, and the best part is... it's free!

http://www.ntonyx.com/onyx_le.htm

[TaoMannaDon]

Phil

You can download a demo here: Band In A Box demo

The program comes with videos that help. If you know chords, you can type them in and it will create a song in the style you choose. If you don't know chords you can ask it to create a song for you. The more you learn, the better it works.

Download the demo first. Maybe you can answer your own questions. I don't have a answer for you because I'm not certain what you're asking. And I'm a long way from my home computer right now. Other people here use the program. I'm sure you can get the answers you need one way or another.

Edited February 11, 2009 by TaoMannaDon

[Lazz]

Lazz, can I ask how you learned?

Because I had to.

Quickly and on-the-job.

I had internalised some kind of feel and intuitive understanding from years of avid listening but had never much thought about how to conceptualise the patterns before. Then, suddenly, life launched me into performance and I found that not only did I need to be able to communicate effectively with proper musos on gigs, but that these musos were liable to be different people each time. I knew there was a shared language I had to learn. It was a problem that needed a solution.

All the guys I worked with were tip-top, experienced, hip, could really play. Way better than me. (Always a good thing.) They all supported and encouraged my eagerness to learn – which was not necessarily a characteristic normally associated with singers – so they found my attitude somewhat refreshing and unexpected and they didn’t mind so much putting me straight because they learned I didn’t forget what they told me.

Example of a simple lesson:

When giving a count, I started out with a tendency to snap my fingers – on each beat.

Problem a) was that not everybody on stage could hear my voice on the count (I do it away from the microphone) – but they could hear my finger snap.

Problem was that the hip and practiced muso hears the finger snap as the off-beat.

And so the tune kicks off straight away with some kind of train-wreck with the rhythm section being a beat askew with each other. Lucky I was working with professionals who had years of experience playing for a whole host of singers who never really knew what the feck they were doing. Bless their hearts, they were able to take swift and immediate remedial action and saved me from embarrassment. That’s what pros do

In the break, the bass-player took time to explain what I had done wrong.

And I never did it again.

Next – having finally learned how to count ‘em in, for tunes that everyone knew, I had to be able to call the right key, and I had to be able to communicate a ‘feel’ effectively.

For tunes that risked being less familiar – I soon figured out that I would need ‘lead-sheets’. Road-maps for each piece.

So I studied how other people did those – and prepared accordingly.

I needed one lead-sheet for each chordal instrument in Concert piano, guitar)

One lead sheet for Bb instruments (tenor or trumpet)

One for bass.

And one for drums.

Having personal lead-sheets was rare for a singer and earned me brownie points.

Having lead-sheets for the drums was even more uncommon – and earned me more brownie points.

It also meant that wherever I went, even if the first place I met my accompanists was on the band-stand, we had a repertoire ready to go without problems.

Every gig was also an opportunity to learn stuff from people better than me.

Putting it all together in some semblence of coherence happened later when I asked a pianist for a couple of lessons in theory and harmony – and in those two lessons I got enough info to move forward in baby steps for many years.

Very important was that he gave me tools to work on analysis of other people’s music, standard repertoire, turnarounds, progressions … and that’s how I learned - by studying great writers - and that's NOT generally what you hear in charts or radio - looking at the seminal great writers is reeeeeeeeeely important.

I didn’t go to college for it.

I went to school on the bandstand, in the back room, and in bars and kitchens.

But I wanted to learn.

learning song forms

Absolutely essential

I think learning about melody is probably the top thing

For me, harmony takes top slot.

[TaoMannaDon]

I'd also like to learn more about cadence, but I can't hear if the syllables are stressed or not, unless it's really clear. Any advice or good reading, preferably online?

Words Got Rhythm

Hickory dickory dock

The mouse ran up the clock

I learned that back when I was just a kid

Words in groups have rhythm

Some of it we give’m

Some of it occurred when the words were made

Words are one wind instrument we’ve all played

Prosody can explain it

Practicing can maintain it

Once you understand it

You’ll think somebody planned it

And they did

[lyricman321]

The biggest problems I see when i get a lyric written without music is that without the constraint of musical bars, there's no pattern,

line 1 verse one might be 5 syllables then line 1 verse 2 is 17 syllables. Things have loosened up some but in say a genre like country or even most pop things still basically line up so the melody is basically the same in both spots. How does that happen when you're dealing with such disparate lines?

So the thing I'd advise is: either learn to play basic chord progressions on guitar or piano or use music templates to write over- simply use a hit song and write new lyrics to it. Remove the music and it's not plaigirism at all.

The other thing I see is just a lack of knowledge in terms of what tools are available to improve a lyric when rewriting or better yet, keep in mind so you go to them in the fist place. I generally recommend this site for that as it's free and the articles aren't too heavy or overly reliant on referencing the music end:

http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Bill_E_Watson

That's my two cents.

Timbo

[MikeRobinson]

A lyric does not have to strictly be locked to its music, nor to (especially, "obviously contrived") rhymes, but it will always be revealed to the listener one word at a time. And from these words, especially the first ones, the listener will begin to form a mental image. And that mental image, coming as it does from the listener's own experience of whatever you are singing about, has to be engaging.

Although you, the lyricist, are writing words, the listener probably will never read the words you write.

[thepopeofpop]

... simply use a hit song and write new lyrics to it. Remove the music and it's not plaigirism at all.

This is one of the best exercises to try. It's also a good way to learn how to write a lyric to an existing melody. You can also learn a lot about song structure doing this - assuming that you pick a variety of different styles of song. Don't just stick to one style of music or song (or songwriter).

If you happen to come up with a really good lyric there's no reason why you can't fit it to an original melody (or give it to a songwriter who can).

--Paul--