Lyricists And Earnings...

[Steffanovic]

I have written about 400 lyrics over the yrs but haven't done anything with them so far which I would like to change of course. I registered and protected them but now I want to use some of my work for myself and some for others.

I just don't know how to start.

First: what do you have to do when giving your lyrics to other artists, record companies,....( is there a good way to offer and promote your stuff to people?)

what if you find someone who wants to work your lyrics and put it into a song, how do you share the rights? Is it normal that people offer me to pay them to compose my lyrics and also get the rights afterwards? Is the law different in different countries?

Thanks a lot

[Retrosaurus Rex]

I have written about 400 lyrics over the yrs but haven't done anything with them so far which I would like to change of course. I registered and protected them but now I want to use some of my work for myself and some for others.

I just don't know how to start.

First: what do you have to do when giving your lyrics to other artists, record companies,....( is there a good way to offer and promote your stuff to people?)

You have a decent start with the # of lyrics you've written, but what you're talking about is an uphill struggle, so be aware... first, nobody (with a capital "NO"), in the industry is looking for lyrics only, so approaching record companies and/or semi-established artists looking for co-writes is pretty much out of the question. The other thing about that is that it doesn't matter if you're lyrics are "better" than what you hear on the radio. In pop & r&b the lyric is a distant second to the music, and even in country, which is much more lyric-driven than the others mentioned, the music is a huge consideration. In either case, the lyric is often judged on the basis of style and tone and how appropriate it is for a particular artist. Everybody wants songs that are ready to record... the way is much brighter if you can hook up with a composer who will co-write with you and help push the finished songs. Better yet, if you can hook up with an up-and-coming performer who needs help on the lyric-side. None of this should discourage you, just make you realize that you have a certain amount of business & networking legwork ahead of you to get where you want to be.

what if you find someone who wants to work your lyrics and put it into a song, how do you share the rights? Is it normal that people offer me to pay them to compose my lyrics and also get the rights afterwards? Is the law different in different countries?

Thanks a lot

Generally composer & lyricist share 50/50... the finished song would be registered with both persons as authors. If you've already registered the lyric by itself it might require a revision of some kind, refer to www.copyright.gov... I would only worry about the laws of the US (because it's the biggest market, and the laws are peculiar) and whatever country or countries you're actually operating in.

There are a lot of people who offer to compose music for a fee, and you shouldn't bother with these, because generally the music isn't very good, but that would be a work-for-hire (get it in writing), and no authorship rights would go to the composer. A legitimate co-write shares expenses and proceeds 50/50, as mentioned above. I can't imagine a situation where money would change hands before a song is ready to demo. Which is another thing to watch out for, people who offer to compose music for you, and make you pay way too much for a poor-quality demo...

[Steffanovic]

Thank you very much! what a helpful comment. I've already been approached by people wanting to work my lyrics for a fee but when I replied that I'm only interested in sharing rights, I got a big fat NO back. They're also active on this forum, didn't know it was allowed. If a composer really likes my lyrics and also believes that his work is good, he or she has no problem when it comes to sharing rights, is that correct?

[Retrosaurus Rex]

Thank you very much! what a helpful comment. I've already been approached by people wanting to work my lyrics for a fee but when I replied that I'm only interested in sharing rights, I got a big fat NO back. They're also active on this forum, didn't know it was allowed. If a composer really likes my lyrics and also believes that his work is good, he or she has no problem when it comes to sharing rights, is that correct?

Well, if someone's posting a service for hire they should use the advertising board, but if they're generally good citizens in public and only offering you this via PM I'm not sure how we would police that...

As far as sharing rights, I don't know how else it could work, or what problem someone could have with it. There might be some details depending on circumstances, or the deal might not be 50/50, if one side has particular leverage, but even that would be exceptionally rare. It's like you have a truckload of wood, and I have time and tools, and you're going to pay me to build a house that we're both going to live in. Does that sound fair?

[Steffanovic]

Thanks again, Rex! I guess the next thing for me to do, is finding good composers. Any tips on how to find them?

[Retrosaurus Rex]

Thanks again, Rex! I guess the next thing for me to do, is finding good composers. Any tips on how to find them?

I think I noticed that you already posted some lyrics (I haven't actually checked them out, sorry...), and I presume you're commenting, that's a good start. You might also check out and comment on songs that people have actually recorded. It's a good way to see if someone's style, both personal & musical, is compatible with your own. That will also lead you to the sites where people host their music (Soundcloud for example...) and you can browse around there... there might be a music store nearby where you could post a notice, a club that has an open mic night... once you start looking you'll discover possibilities... put yourself out there, and don't be afraid to approach people. Be prepared for rejection, or at least, don't get discouraged by it, there are all kinds of reasons, having nothing to do with you, that someone could be not interested, take it in stride. Nothing happens on its' own, as you've already noticed, but remain confident in yourself & your abilities, and keep trying, and believe something will happen...

[EJB]

You have a decent start with the # of lyrics you've written, but what you're talking about is an uphill struggle, so be aware... first, nobody (with a capital "NO"), in the industry is looking for lyrics only, so approaching record companies and/or semi-established artists looking for co-writes is pretty much out of the question. The other thing about that is that it doesn't matter if you're lyrics are "better" than what you hear on the radio. In pop & r&b the lyric is a distant second to the music, and even in country, which is much more lyric-driven than the others mentioned, the music is a huge consideration. In either case, the lyric is often judged on the basis of style and tone and how appropriate it is for a particular artist. Everybody wants songs that are ready to record... the way is much brighter if you can hook up with a composer who will co-write with you and help push the finished songs. Better yet, if you can hook up with an up-and-coming performer who needs help on the lyric-side. None of this should discourage you, just make you realize that you have a certain amount of business & networking legwork ahead of you to get where you want to be.

Generally composer & lyricist share 50/50... the finished song would be registered with both persons as authors. If you've already registered the lyric by itself it might require a revision of some kind, refer to www.copyright.gov... I would only worry about the laws of the US (because it's the biggest market, and the laws are peculiar) and whatever country or countries you're actually operating in.

There are a lot of people who offer to compose music for a fee, and you shouldn't bother with these, because generally the music isn't very good, but that would be a work-for-hire (get it in writing), and no authorship rights would go to the composer. A legitimate co-write shares expenses and proceeds 50/50, as mentioned above. I can't imagine a situation where money would change hands before a song is ready to demo. Which is another thing to watch out for, people who offer to compose music for you, and make you pay way too much for a poor-quality demo...

I belive it would be more like the Lyric/Melody writer 50% Composer 50%

if you just contribute the lyrics I am not sure that is 50%.

But then it would all be in an agreement between the persons involved.

EJB

[john]

Unless I misunderstand the point you are making, I would have to disagree EJB, if only because in terms of song copyright in publishing terms the primary components for what constitutes a song is at it's most fundamental simply the lyrics and melody. Copyright, and therefor copyright ownership, concerns what is new and unique about a song, and chord progressions for example are rarely that original. Most copyright therefore concerns primarily those two elements.

For example, if I sing the same melody with different chords, or with harmony or without, it is still essentially the same song.

If on the other hand I keep the chords the same, I can sing 20 different melodies and they would be classified as 20 different songs.

A song can have many arrangements.

In terms of a mechanical copyright, the recording royalty split, that would however cover the arrangement. In respect of the mechanical copyright then, the performing band usually does the arrangement and therefore gets the related royalty, while a share is paid to the songwriters and publisher in the form of a license payment.

True, a modern producer can negotiate a share of the songwriting, because they can contribute so many key aspects of what the song is, things that are integral to the song's success, original elements that are fundamental to the song. This is especially true in pop and electronica based genres.

The point being that percentages may approach what you are saying, but they relate to different things.

[john]

I should add though that some bands do split things differently, or their members simply aren't aware of the various components they are working with, leaving it for others to sort.