Hey

[Ghost93r]

my name is Douglas, and I guess I'm looking for a metal band that's in need of a song writer. I've got about 30 songs I've written myself. And I don't like seeing them collect dust. I've tried finding metal bands in need of a song writer but, it seems like there's none that need one... which kinda dampers my mood about writing songs... and it usually results with me slowing down with songwriting. I'm usually able to write a song in about 30 minutes or so. the shortest time it took me to write a song was 10 minutes. the longest, was about an hour or so... And well, I hope to find a metal band looking for a songwriter. And before I'm asked... No, I've never tried singing or playing an instrument before.

[john]

Hi and welcome Douglas.

Just a terminology check... as you don't sing or play (unless I have misunderstood you) I am guessing you focus solely on writing lyrics, and that you have 30 song lyrics, not 30 songs, as songs are the combination of both the words and music not either or.

I don't say that to play down what you have, more so that you find what you are looking for and so does the band in question. It happens a little bit less in metal circles but another possibility would be to find a co-writer to do the music writing for your lyrics and then you could pitch complete songs to bands. That has many advantages to pitching lyrics alone.

[Ghost93r]

I don't know of any co-writers in this small town I'm stuck in. 

and I've only written 30 some lyrics. but, I've heard that they need to made into songs fast. I've got some friends that are freaking out over them and are REALLY wanting to hear them played. plus, I like writing lyrics, it's something I could do for hours and not get bored or frustrated. 

[john]

Well, stating the obvious, we have a mix here of lyricists, music writers and many who do both. Right at the moment I would say there are more lyrics only writers than music only writers here, but that balance does change. No matter the balance I would say there are many talented and passionate writers here at various stages in their careers writing for pretty well every genre you can imagine. Some are artists and perform their own material, others write for other artists while a good number write good songs but have yet to place many or any with a band. You don't get handed anything worthwhile on a plate. It takes hard work and effort and a willingness to learn. If you aren't willing to do that be prepared to be disappointed by your career as a lyricist. There is a long line of people who think they are talented, and a shorter line who are talented all of whom get nowhere because they wait for success to land on their lap while they focused solely on their art, plenty more who at least get some way because talent aside they worked damn hard competing for a small number of possibly successful opportunities. It's a tough business.

It's good to be confident, it's great to have the support of your friends, but don't fool yourself into thinking you are better than every other writer. There are many, many, many thousands of great writers and even the best have some better songs than others... and importantly, good and bad is largely subjective and doesn't always match up with popularity.

All that said there are plenty of potential writers here for you to collaborate with, be that finding a long term writing partner or different collab partners on a song by song basis. Make your pitch, share some examples like you have with your friends and who knows you might find a co-writer, some bands to play your tunes and who knows what more.

Good luck with your writing

[Janeva]

Hi

 

Welcome to Songstuff

 

Jan

[Ghost93r]

Hi Jan and thank you.

 

John... I don't think I'm better than anyone. and I've got maybe 2 people that actually support my lyrics. My family practically hates it. And I want to escape being told that everything I do is crap. I've tried all kinds of things and there's only a few things that interests me.building and writing are the only two things I could really see myself doing as an official career. I've love writing ever since I was introduced to writing stories back in elementary school. And when I got introduced to poetry, I immediately started writing it as if I knew how... I'm not saying I'm better, I'm saying I picked up on it rather faster than the rest of my classmates. Sadly the first free verse poem I wrote... kinda got me kicked out of school that day. All they told me was that the poem was "VERY dark". But, I still loved writing poetry, and every now and again I'll try working on one of my books but, they've become rather boring to me... after having written about 10 chapters and no one wanting to read them. I just don't know what to do anymore... I was hoping to get into lyric writing but, after what you've told me overall. I don't know, I mean, sure I'll be more than happy to work my butt off in getting into it but, if there's more lyricists than bands... then there really isn't much of a point... is there? 

[john]

oh there are plenty of bands, and many that look for songs but in many ways they are a songwriter's customers. To make a living from music at a time when much of the earning potential for songwriters has been ripped out by the changes wrought by illegal downloads and filesharing is a challenge that means writing for multiple genres and earning in new an evolving ways. You might as well go into it with your eyes open.

In the creative arts you have to grow a tough skin. Comments can be cutting and rejection is something you learn to deal with. It is not without rewards but realistically paying your bills is for many less reliable than building work.

It isn't all doom and gloom. Most people only ever see the glamour and riches of a successful music industry with only the faintest idea of what is really involved, and small grasp of chances of success. To choose it (or anything) as a career I do hope your determination is not such that I stop you, or that you simply accept my answers. Ask others. See if there is a way you can make it work for you. You would not be the first artistic person out there to study for some aspect of the industry or to have a job doing other things while you chase artistic success. There are many routes and you'll not know what options are out there without many more conversations than this one with me.

What have you done so far to place your lyrics with bands?

[Ghost93r]

that's the thing... I haven't been able to get a hold of a band to play my lyrics... I've got plenty of lyrics just no one to play them...

I really like writing stuff like, poetry, lyrics, and stories but, I'm not sure if any of them will be a career that'll help me make it in this world...

[john]

It takes time to find that out Douglas, not just in music. These days I don't know that there is such a thing as a career for life, but you can always pursue what you are passionate about, improving, learning and enjoying, no matter whether you make money from it or not. I think that is often the best approach when starting a career in the arts. Work hard and enjoy, but hedge your bets and make money elsewhere too.

 

Meanwhile, take a little time, build some contacts locally and via the internet, collab with other writers online if you can't find them locally, do everything you can to make your work attractive to both other writers and to bands that might use the finished songs. You are as you admit yourself at the beginning of the road. Do what you do because you love it and learn all you can. Explore a little, ask the advice of other more experienced writers (there are loads here and we're a pretty friendly and supportive bunch).

 

No matter if you write a book, or write lyrics, or scripts or advertising slogans, it takes time and effort, contacts and learning to progress to the point where it even becomes possible to decide to make it a career. Your drive and passion for what you do is what takes you to that point and beyond.

 

What I am saying in summary is, don't put all your eggs in one basket and don't at this stage think "I will write lyrics to make money", although that could be an eventual outcome at the stage you are at it is an unrealistic test and aim. If you wanted to be an indie car driver sure the idea of getting there is a start, but it is a long way from first getting in a car to being in a position to make a living as a racing driver. You have to learn to drive and that learning continues your entire career. For years you pay out, you struggle, you hope to get sponsors etc, usually making money from other jobs, often in related fields. You pay your dues, you work hard in the hope you will be successful, but the first and foremost reason is, because you love it. You would do it as a hobby even if you never got paid, and perhaps that is the ultimate question you can ask yourself, to assess if you would have what it takes to stick with whatever you do:

 

Would I do this no matter whether I got paid or not?

 

If the answer is "yes", then stop worrying too much about the money and just get out there and write, learn and network.

 

If the answer is "no", then perhaps your motivation is wrong and this really isn't something to even consider basing your career on. Write for the fun of it when the urge takes you and move on to considering what else it is you want to achieve in life.

 

Just my two cents. I recommend asking other writers in our musician's lounge. Start a topic or topics and ask some burning questions, ask yourself some burning questions, maybe even start a blog (here or elsewhere) to explore your thoughts on writing (lyrics, poems, books whatever), and in the short-term suspend the drive to make money at this and look at it through the eyes of your passion again. Making money from what you love is a luxury few achieve no matter what their interests are, but there is absolutely nothing stopping you doing it as a hobby with the view of always improving your future opportunities. That's what millions do whether they are cooks, artists, writers, race car drivers, models, actors.... you get the idea.

 

Success can be made more or less likely by what you do. Create your own luck by always giving yourself the maximum chance of achieving the best outcome for your goals, and to do that takes hard work and great knowledge (amongst other things). Your journey starts here.

 

What you are facing is pretty well what we all face or faced. What do I do, what direction do I go etc. It's as old as humanity.

 

I hope all this helps.

[Ghost93r]

I don't know what I'm passionate about, I enjoy writing. but, I'd like to make money and move out of this tiny freaking town I'm stuck in that's quickly becoming an old folks home. I want to go out and explore life rather than waste away in a town full of prehistoric people that look like they've seen the great depression back when they were my age. I can't take it here much longer... the people that are my age that are in this town either hate me(they're bully's), have stolen from me or treated me like crap(not literally and pardon my language) and do illegal things. There's nothing in this town for me. That's why I'd like to get into something that could help me leave this tiny town. And I was hoping that if I wrote good enough lyrics for a band they would let be be go with them. 

[john]

Would you think it likely that if you sat and waited at a bus station that a millionaire will come by and whisk you away to change your life? How long realistically do you think you would have to wait for the right millionaire to come passed your bus station, notice you and then decide that you are worth investing in? A day? A week? A year? A decade? Ever? Because pinning such important hopes on such a fragile and unlikely event are unlikely to get you what you want.

 

Unfortunately I would say to pin your hopes on writing lyrics as a quick way out of your current predicament is very similar to what I describe above. Yes you can improve your chances, but It is far too unreliable to pin such powerful hopes on. There is no quick money making scheme for writers, and no escape plan as such, and certainly none that have any degree of certainty. If escape is what you are looking for, with the motivation you describe, then I would definately suggest something more dependable, more predictable, more certainty. They may be slower than your ideal, less glam, but seeing progress towards something with a journey made up of set steps is far, far better than something where there is no set path, and where you can pour hours of emotion and effort only to see absolutely no result (which is what you have seen so far) as that is absolutely soul destroying.

 

I am not an expert in general career advice, much less dealing with personal, social and or environmental problems, but I can understand both feelings of isolation and frustration. If I were you I would be looking to find someone local (school/college guidance counsellor etc) that can provide some help and advice that you can immediately apply to give you a realistic pathway ahead. It would make sense for you to have goals that you can see come measurable progress with the ability to save towards the future you would like. Yet again it may be far from instant, but if you work along a path with known steps and fixed goals time will pass while your head is down working. It is a far healthier and hopeful approach than to pin everything on such a vague dream. My comments are not related to your talent, your skills or how much you deserve a break. It's a hard reality many, many have faced.

 

Meanwhile you can look to improve your immediate circumstances in other ways, and of course keep writing as you do enjoy that. Why not start learning guitar or another musical instrument? Just because you are working on other ways towards leaving your town doesn't mean you can't still write lyrics and try to get them placed with bands. If you do get them successfully placed, excellent, I will be very happy for you, really.

 

You seem a nice guy, and I am sure you have skills, talents and interests. Even in a small town there will be people who will be able to help you. We were all young once.

[Ghost93r]

There is only one person I know of that's in town that I could actually go to, that might be willing to teach me how to place the guitar... but, I don't know if he'd be willing to do as such... And ever since this band Called Grinder shot down my songs, I've felt like crap... their song writer shot down my songs about 3 days ago... and I've been feeling really down in the dumps... those songs were like pieces of my very soul... I've even questioned if I even have a soul after all the stuff I've been put through growing up... I've got so many stories from when I was little... but, you'd probably just say be a man and grow up, deal with it, grow a set. or something like that... but, there are somethings that I've been through that I wouldn't wish upon my own enemies. Enough about that though... I've been searching online for metal bands in need of a lyricist and I've found 2 but... not sure if the position is still available. I haven't got any other talents that I know of... writing is all I've got... despite having no family supporting me... I've got maybe 2-3 friends that support me but, they've got limits on how much they support me... 

[john]

Remember what I said about artists having to get used to rejection? People have different likes and dislikes, different tastes, different opinions. Not everyone will like what you do. Even for people who become fans of your work will develop favorites ie they like one song more than another. Without such reactions there wouldn't be hits or fashions or any of that.

So, all artists know that not everyone will like their stuff. In the case of this metal band songwriter he must be one of that percentage. Importantly though he is one guy, he doesn't speak for all metal fans let alone all music fans. If he made out like he did he's just plain wrong. Metal is a pretty broad genre, and exactly what "metal" is changes on a regular basis so don't get too hung up on one guys opinion.

There are loads of bands out there for you to pitch to but I would be very surprised if they all wanted your songs. Very. No one has that great a hit rate, specially not starting out. That is why it is a bad idea to depend on only that. Even if all the current bands did reject all your songs, you can always write more songs just as there will be new bands.

Lastly, I don't know your story so I would need to be a self opinionated arrogant ass to just dismiss what you've been through out of hand. Yes, in many ways we have to find ways of living with the past in order to have a future but that doesn't mean it is a fast, painfree process or that all injuries are equal or that once pushed behind you that is an end to the effect.

What I would highlight though is that people only grasp so much, though most do have a story of some trauma or other, but trauma is very relative. Unless a specialist in dealing with certain trauma they can only guess what to say without causing unintended hurt. One thing I have learnt in life is pretty well no matter the trauma we experience, we won't be the first, we won't be the last and there are always others out there whose story would move us to tears, whose experience we would consider to be worse than our own and whose humility, courage and fortitude is both humbling and inspiring.

We aren't going to find all your answers here, two songwriters having a chat on a discussion board (I am sure you know that), though we all (the members) might enjoy exploring the art of writing songs together we are not career guidance experts or trauma experts and to offer any detailed advice here other than "seek advice from those that know about that stuff" would seem to at once trivialize the issues and claim more props than we are due. Some things just go beyond what can be safely and wisely done online. Like most things in life we tend to get specific help from specific sources and here it is music and

songwriting and I am confident that in that regard you will get great and useful advice from members.

I am sorry my initial comments came at both a bad time and that they haven't exactly encouraged you. I do hope you continue writing for fun or more and of course wish you every success in doing so, and of course I really hope you get your career sorted out and it is at least something you enjoy!

Meanwhile, enjoy the boards and I hope you can get a few collaborations going.