Drugs and Creativity

[starise]

I am in no way condoning the use of drugs in this post-

 

I would think  anything that stunts our senses would be adverse to creativity. Certainly any substance that would cause a person to loose coordination would be bad for technical instrumental pursuits. Judgement is clouded, coordination is lost. In short, drugs are bad news for musicians in general.

 

Yet we hear of musicians who felt they were creatively enhanced by the use of LSD, mushrooms and similar drugs. The Beatles are a great example since a few have  claimed they were tuned into another level of consciousness ( while it appears like unconsciousness to us). Some musicians have admitted to playing while high. 

 

Do you think some of these drugs rewire the creative centers to a higher level or do you believe that this is really a lie. Does this start to delve into other areas like yoga and mediation in your opinion?

 

I have my own views as we all do. I'm curious about your take on this.

[Rudi]

Ringo has said that he didnt think so. As best I can recall he said "When you are derelict in any kind of way, the music is pretty sh1tty".

 

Undoubtedly it has inspired some artists. Some of the Grateful Dead were changed positively by LSD, but when they (or the 'family') gave LSD to Peter Green (according to Peter himself) it ruined him. Peter was a sensitive and I believe more 'fragile' person. His fall from music and society was a massive personal tragedy and a huge loss for the rest of us.

 

I consider Peter Green the finest electric blues player of them all.

By contrast, I have to admit that my favourite player of all was the Grateful Dead's Jerry Garcia, who abused LSD and all manner of drugs massively.

 

Robby Robertson song 'Somewhere Down the Crazy River' is about this subject. It essentially says that drugs can be creatively inspiring but warns of serious danger also.

 

Having said that, how many people that do drugs of any kind do so as 'an experiment' or to become 'creatively endowed'? They use them to get off their face, and I feel very disenchanted with all recreational drugs now. I am just not interested. 

[Just1L]

I recall hearing a radio show once about Blondie. It stated when they were creating all their hit songs they were all abusing one thing or another. After they cleaned up their act and got straight, they never wrote a hit song again. The problem with drugs as I see it is you have to keep doing more and more. Especially depending on the drug, but for most of them that's the case. A one hit or two of pot may put you in a creative mood and you can do well. But eventually it ends up going further than that to the point it is just destructive. One thing interesting for me is I can't do a damn thing musically if I drink. Sure, I can maybe have 1 beer and be okay but after that I'm finished. And I know because I tried it before when I first started writing songs. I remember I had the house to myself and I was all pumped up to do some songwriting. I grabbed a beer and sat down to play and record. It started great then I went and got beer number 2. Not much got done and what I did record wasn't all that great. I tried some more but in the end I figured it just wasn't my day to record songs and what did I do? Went on to beer number 3. Luckily I recognized it almost immediately and haven't done it since. I was truly bummed to miss a great opportunity to work on music because I rarely have time to do it. I do like to have some beers for sure but when it comes to music and graphic design … I just know it won't work for me and luckily that helps me to not do it. 

Edited May 20, 2016 by Just1L

[john]

Hi Tim

 

"Drugs" is a hell of a big, broad topic. It includes alcohol, caffeine, heroin, cocaine, MDMA, marjuanna, skunk (High THC marajuana), speed and much more.

 

I would say that generally the effect is temporary, but sometimes, if not often, the price is permanent. Certainly many drugs will allow a less constrained creativity... meaning more creative ideas, but at the same time the ability to filter is a double edged sword. It means that more ideas are turned into something, but that quality of idea goes out the window, or at least it is measured in a different way.

 

No matter the drug, the benefits are temporary, but all have an instant cost and usually a long term impact. The balance depends on the drug and on the person... and sometimes the circumstance.

 

Peter Green may be a fantastic guitarist, but drugs left his life a waste land.

 

The big problem is that the artist has no way to know what they would have come up with had they not taken drugs.

 

Secondly is that on drugs of any kind (I include alcohol, even cafeine) your perception is altered, so much that you can think something is good, your response can be amplified, such that when you are straight again you can look at it and wonder why on earth you found it so fascinating.

 

Even hash / marajuana has a price. It can make you feel very focused, indeed you can get a lot done, but too many people get lost in the glimmer, the promise. I have many friends who smoke, all of whom had big dreams... musical or business etc. Almost every single one of them set their dreams aside... even the practical ones. Why? Grass might be great for ideas, but it sucks for motivation. If not very careful, it gradually consumes your life and dreams. It can relax, it can stimulate creativity, and that is scientifically proven, BUT it has a price. The trick that is hard to pull off is to enjoy the benefits while avoiding the worst of the cost. the worst thing you can do is be dismissive of the price. It is very, very real.

 

I mentioned earlier that the balance depends on the drug and person and circumstance, but the effect greatly varies too.

 

Cocaine. The bane of the music and movie industries. Why? It's popular because it boosts confidence. That can be great for stage presence etc. It also helps cope with the long hours of tours and the constantly on the go feeling a pro musician can experience... but, it can also make you falsely confident about second rate music. It can make you agressive, so you behave like a complete asshole. It rots you from the inside. Bits of you bleed that you never thought could bleed. It can consume your money way faster than you can make the money. I have known way too many people who lost everything through coke.

 

LSD, mushrooms etc are so dangerous. Dosage is highly unpredictable. Even experienced users can screw it up. They are massive triggers for psychosis based illnesses, even taking once. Take them regularly and your mind can go bye bye. Think Peter Green or Sid Barrett.

 

Alcohol is probably the one most people are familiar with, yet it can give you false confidence, poor judgement. It is an insidious drug. It can turn you into an addict or someone with another drink problem without you noticing. It destroys people, families and friendships. I avoid it at all costs when making or performing music. Afterwards is a different matter! lol

 

More often than not, benefits are an illusion.

 

Caffeine will affect your mix, if nothing else. It tends to make you charge at things head on and bulldose your way through. It is NOT your music making friend.... that said, many is the time I have had a coffee in the morning to get me going, or late at night to keep me going during a long session. Personally I find it more for editing sessions, but avoid it during recording or mixdown time.

 

Heroin. Bad idea on every level. I've lost a few friends through heroin.

 

MDMA. A classic dellusion drug. You think everything is lovely, friendly, and relaxed. You think everyone else perceives it as the same. Sadly, that is all bollocks. LOL

 

To process the benefits of any drug, and to come out unscathed, is a huge gamble. You might think you are unscathed, but I can prettywell guarrantee you wouldn't be unscathed. To be unscathed takes the combination of an exceptional person combined with a lot of luck imho.

 

Cheers

 

John

[TapperMike]

It's funny that this subject is brought up today of all days.  Earlier tonite while on break one of my co-workers lit up a pipe and passed it around.  Because we had talked about using drugs before she assumed I wanted to get high with her.  I stopped doing drugs a long time back.  I know people who are in their 60's and even 70's who are occasional users of this that and the other thing.  They somehow figured out how to still get high and survive.  I'm not one of them.  

 

I think if I smoked marijuana today:  

1. I'd have to be in Colorado where it's legal.
2. I'd have to be able to clear my agenda with not having to do anything or be anywhere that day or the next.
3. I'd have to be in a scenic rural area.

A funny thing about me and getting high alone (granted the last time I did was '81  I want to play my guitar but my hands go dumb. I want to play the radio but for some reason every song I listen to sucks at that time. I've got the munchies but nothing looks good to me.   A friend of mine used to coax me into getting high and playing guitar while high.  It would take some time before I could come down enough to play.  He and others would comment how awesome I was.  I'd never remember how good or even what songs I'd played while high.  I think it was the drugs talking to him and others around me.

 

Regarding Cocaine. I loved coke. I'd blow 600 a week on premium coke. I loved it more then my job, more then my guitars and more then my girlfriend.  I loved it straight up to the day my best friend got arrested and did 10 years for possession. Then after I had no job, no guitars, no girlfriend and no best friend I put coke behind me for a few years.  I tried it again and I was not liking the buzz at all.  I felt no euphoria, my heart was racing a mile a minute. (prolly heavily stepped on)  A girl who was part of our little inner circle had a heart attack and nearly dired.

 

Regarding hallucinogens.  Yes I did LSD, purple microdot blatter oils and the like.  They were quite trippy I had mostly good "out of body" experiences.  Along with two really bad experiences which cased me to stop.  I had flashbacks as well as co-existing problems.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_perception_disorder The flashbacks lasted for over ten years.  The brain snaps were intense when I stopped doing drugs and lt was impossible to get any sleep.  I suffered from then even longer but the regularity lessened over time.  Sure I did some pretty creative stuff on hallucinogens but I wouldn't call it my better work.

 

Getting straight was a bitch for me.  I have a compulsive-addictive personality. The only thing I couldn't kick was smoking. And the only thing that pulled me through was playing guitar. Guitar was my escape from drug addiction.  Everyday I'd pour myself into the guitar (wish I had the dedication I had back then) trying fend off the physical and psychological withdrawal. I thought I had gone permanently insane.  Every day I was hanging on by a thread. Slowly after a long long time I finally started coming out of the fog.

 

 

[TapperMike]

Regarding Blonde.... Did you hear that from The Ramones?

 

I've seen quite a few Blondie doco's as well as General History of Rock and Roll.  As well I knew a roadie who worked for the Ramones.  They were drug dealers first, performers second.  If not for Phil Spector literally putting a gun to their heads they would have never done anything worthy of airplay.

 

As for Blonde....Well I have a different story on that one.

[starise]

On 5/20/2016 at 3:21 PM, john said:

"Drugs" is a hell of a big, broad topic. It includes alcohol, caffeine, heroin, cocaine, MDMA, marjuanna, skunk (High THC marajuana), speed and much more.

 

I agree that this is a wide subject. I should have been more specific in saying that usually hallucinogenic drugs like LSD are credited with  helping an artist.

 

 

Here's a link that posits this line of thinking regarding LSD- 

 

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/01/11/8-famous-people-whose-creativity-innovation-was-inspired-by-lsd/

 

To a much lesser degree I think most of us are hooked in some way on something. I admit to being hooked on caffine. I love coffee. I've been drinking it for so long now that I don't believe it affects me much since I built up a resistance to it. I know it isn't really good to drink a lot of it, but I do.

 

I can relate to Just1L first hand on beer consumption since they usually pass around  beer at sessions I play. One loosens me up so I'm not so tense playing. Two and I'm starting to feel a buzz. Three and I have all the confidence in the world but I suck at playing lol...so if I drink at all it's only one or maybe two at the most.  Not to mention the frequent trips to the bathroom...enough about that.

 

I think I'm curious since I haven't ever done any drugs considered hard drugs like heroin, cocaine or LSD. Never had the interest in it, but it probably also had a lot to do with my surroundings and the people I hung or didn't hang with. I was fairly insulated from that stuff then. Tapper and Tom I can certainly understand how it could be so easy to get into and I don't fault you or anyone else at all. I think it's a common thing for people to get involved with especially musicians.

 

On 5/20/2016 at 3:21 PM, john said:

Heroin. Bad idea on every level. I've lost a few friends through heroin.

 

I can relate. Heroin just killed a friends wife. Very sad.

 

21 hours ago, TapperMike said:

Regarding hallucinogens.  Yes I did LSD, purple microdot blatter oils and the like.  They were quite trippy I had mostly good "out of body" experiences.  Along with two really bad experiences which cased me to stop.  I had flashbacks as well as co-existing problems.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_perception_disorder The flashbacks lasted for over ten years.  The brain snaps were intense when I stopped doing drugs and lt was impossible to get any sleep.  I suffered from then even longer but the regularity lessened over time.  Sure I did some pretty creative stuff on hallucinogens but I wouldn't call it my better work.

 

This is another thing that would have me really concerned if I were contemplating taking a drug like LSD.

 

On 5/20/2016 at 3:21 PM, john said:

Secondly is that on drugs of any kind (I include alcohol, even cafeine) your perception is altered, so much that you can think something is good, your response can be amplified, such that when you are straight again you can look at it and wonder why on earth you found it so fascinating.

 

21 hours ago, TapperMike said:

A funny thing about me and getting high alone (granted the last time I did was '81  I want to play my guitar but my hands go dumb. I want to play the radio but for some reason every song I listen to sucks at that time. I've got the munchies but nothing looks good to me.   A friend of mine used to coax me into getting high and playing guitar while high.  It would take some time before I could come down enough to play.  He and others would comment how awesome I was.  I'd never remember how good or even what songs I'd played while high.  I think it was the drugs talking to him and others around me.

On 5/20/2016 at 1:21 PM, tunesmithth said:

Case-in-point....I was a creative genious when high! If you didn't believe it, just ask me....I would have been happy to tell you!

I felt as if I played better (more passionately) & was much more involved in the moment & the music. BUT...thanks to the miracle of tape, that belief was pretty well debunked. Turned out to be much more about the lessening of inhibitions, self-delusion & the dulling of senses than a heightening of my creative abilities. It's tough to argue with reality and in my experience, tape doesn't lie. I wasn't playing better....I simply felt like I was. Lesson learned! Fortunately, that occurred at a fairly young age.

 

The drugs seem to  create a kind of delusion at times. I wonder how some of these musicians could  pull a show off under these circumstances? 

 

On 5/20/2016 at 3:21 PM, john said:

No matter the drug, the benefits are temporary, but all have an instant cost and usually a long term impact. The balance depends on the drug and on the person... and sometimes the circumstance.

 

John's view here is quite telling and I agree. Here is another article to back this view up.

 

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/creativity-madness-and-drugs/

 

Most of us need to dig deep into our minds to retrieve the things that make up what we commonly think of as creativity. Creativity isn't usually the first thing our primal systems are trained to deal with. Survival and immediate fires that need putting out, personal relationships, immediate day to day activities relegate creativity to a low priority for most of us, unless you have a very agreeable nurturing surrounding or life that caters to creativity. We know it's there but it's usually buried deep down. 

 

In my opinion some drugs may help us  break outside of this by relegating creativity to the top and in some cases allowing you to live right inside of it. Like John has mentioned, the trade off is that the after effects of the drugs can and many times do either kill  or cause  serious side effects. Have you ever waked from a dream with a brilliant music idea? Imagine if you could stay in that world longer....so this is what it appears to me that drugs like LSD do. 

 

Art is related to the spiritual.  Indeed art is our soul expression. Many are looking to tap into a higher self or higher plane. Some religions such as American Indian religions use hallucinogenics to amplify their spiritual journey. This temporary disconnect from the physical self to look more closely at the spiritual self is the goal. Shamans do the same thing. This is why I brought up meditation as a possible connection to a similar outcome. I think that good meditation can be a healthy way to gain access to our more creative sides. Bad meditation can have the same effect on creativity as bad drugs in my opinion. Am I making sense?

 

10 hours ago, HoboSage said:

If that's what "creativity" means, then since very little of what I do as a musical artist comes from my "imagination" and I'm not sure what an original idea even means, let alone if it's even possible for me to have one, very little of what I do as a musical artist is due to "creativity."  Improvisation; Trial and Error; Serendipity; The Inertia of what I like and what I've done before, and what I'm capable of doing; Listening to what I'm hearing and thinking about it  - that's what I do to "create" music, and regardless of my state of consciousness, if I am conscious and not too messed up, and if I'm physically able to, I can make music.  Creativity?  Meh.

 

I think you hit on something I certainly missed in this discussion. Since many of us are using a computer to help us create we need both left and right brain to be good at computer music. Even if you only play an instrument you need the skills to make the expression happen. In that respect we all use both sides of our brains. I think what you like is you coming through as creativity.

 

 

[MonoStone]

If you're making music for a crowd on LSD or ecstasy then you need to understand the effect those drugs have on music. Certain sounds and the way the dynamics of a track progress has a massive effect. Obviously trance and similar artists know how to use this to lift a crowd into a state of euphoria (it's not by accident), and in a different way so do psychedelic artists (e.g. Ozric Tentacles definitely produce and arrange in a way that will take people in that state of mind, on an engineered journey)... And also, having that experience has some effect on the way your music sounds to non-drugged-up people too, and I think can be some inspiration in creating moods/atmospheres.... just because it's easier to understand if you've heard music whilst under the influence of certain drugs which enhance the effect... or perhaps more because having been there will inspire you to want to create such things, to kind of replicate the feeling. I think it's fair to say that trying LSD/Mushrooms/Ecstasy will have a lot of influence on the type of music you enjoy and WANT to create.

 

No I don't take LSD etc.... I tried in my youth. I wouldn't touch it now or advise anyone to. It's dangerous because things can get out of control quickly and the perception of dangerous situations/actions is very much altered, and extreme paranoia can provoke very dangerous actions. Although I don't believe that Syd Barrett would have turned out normal if he hadn't taken such things....I think he had other issues.... otherwise most artists from the 60s/70s would now think they're dogs.

 

Trying to write or perform whilst under the influence of seriously mind altering substances such as LSD clearly doesn't work. It worked for the Beatles etc in retrospect only. It's impossible to be productive or focused whilst the walls are melting, or whilst looking at the moving pattern on the curtains seems vastly more interesting and important than making music. 

 

The weird imagery etc from a trip isn't much use creatively. It may have inspired Lucy In The Sky etc but there's only so much you can milk from that kind of thing. Then again, if you're a space-rock band... your audience might well appreciate it.

 

Clearly Heroin and other life destroying drugs inspired some artists (e.g. Bowie) but only in the same way that death and misery inspire artists. (edit... maybe in other ways... but never in a positive way (although some songs inspired by such drugs were brilliant...so are some songs about death... is kind of what I meant)

 

 

Edited May 22, 2016 by MonoStone

[TapperMike]

2 minutes ago, MonoStone said:

If you're making music for a crowd on LSD or ecstasy then you need to understand the effect those drugs have on music

 

 

 

[starise]

22 hours ago, MonoStone said:

 

If you're making music for a crowd on LSD or ecstasy then you need to understand the effect those drugs have on music. Certain sounds and the way the dynamics of a track progress has a massive effect. Obviously trance and similar artists know how to use this to lift a crowd into a state of euphoria (it's not by accident), and in a different way so do psychedelic artists (e.g. Ozric Tentacles definitely produce and arrange in a way that will take people in that state of mind, on an engineered journey).

 

 

I love the phrase you used here- " engineered journey" . Do you think some of the Beatles songs were engineered for people on hallucinogens? Since my background is American and not English I can't say how much of the feel in their music is really just a bunch of creative English guys or if it's also the influence of drugs. I strongly suspect it was a little of both. I've always thought songs like , " Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds" and many other songs they made were just plain trippy  I doubt that they were really high when they performed, but they had been on these journeys. Maybe it wasn't intentional on their part. 

 

This seems to have been the precursor to acid rock rave,trance and all of the other music forms that have an unwritten rule which is, drugs are highly complimentary to the experience. And many of the bands that play the music are reflecting that lifestyle.

 

23 hours ago, MonoStone said:

And also, having that experience has some effect on the way your music sounds to non-drugged-up people too, and I think can be some inspiration in creating moods/atmospheres.... just because it's easier to understand if you've heard music whilst under the influence of certain drugs which enhance the effect... or perhaps more because having been there will inspire you to want to create such things, to kind of replicate the feeling. I think it's fair to say that trying LSD/Mushrooms/Ecstasy will have a lot of influence on the type of music you enjoy and WANT to create.

 

If you had a "good trip" I guess it stays with a person. I wouldn't know. Certainly makes sense.

 

23 hours ago, MonoStone said:

Clearly Heroin and other life destroying drugs inspired some artists (e.g. Bowie) but only in the same way that death and misery inspire artists. (edit... maybe in other ways... but never in a positive way (although some songs inspired by such drugs were brilliant...so are some songs about death... is kind of what I meant)

 

I guess we need music about the bad stuff too....or someone does.

 

LSD and similar drugs seem to mirror schizophrenia in that you hear voices and see things that aren't there. I've heard some strange stories from people who tried it. In the early days when LSD was being tested the government gave it to unsuspecting people. I can't even begin to imagine something like that. Would make for a very exciting day wouldn't it? 

 

I'm reciting this from memory so it might be a bit sketchy...the discovery of LSD came about because in the middle ages a farming village harvested and stored wheat that had a fungal growth on it. When the villagers ate the wheat they all went mad. In later times researchers isolated the parts of the fungus that caused the effect and synthesized it into what we now know as LSD. Apparently this mold or fungus isn't a very common thing...geesh I had better start checking the dates on my cereal boxes.

 

 

[TapperMike]

58 minutes ago, starise said:

 

I'm reciting this from memory so it might be a bit sketchy...the discovery of LSD came about because in the middle ages a farming village harvested and stored wheat that had a fungal growth on it. When the villagers ate the wheat they all went mad. In later times researchers isolated the parts of the fungus that caused the effect and synthesized it into what we now know as LSD. Apparently this mold or fungus isn't a very common thing...geesh I had better start checking the dates on my cereal boxes.

 

 

 

I remember the story as well.  The grain was rye.  

Now that I've found the link.... Here's more - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergot

Edited May 23, 2016 by TapperMike

[MonoStone]

Tim...

 

I doubt the Beatles engineered the journey... I don't know but I suspect it was more innocent... They were just buzzing from the new experience theyd found and inspired to write about it. Although I'm fairly sure they were not so innocent as to not realise the demand for such music... I'd guess they knew what people at that time wanted... What was hip... But I think engineered might be too much.

 

There are a lot of stories about LSD. Take it from me... It's mostly just animated wallpaper and paranoia  voices don't come from nowhere... But the guy talking on the tv might seem like he's addressing you personally  

[starise]

2 hours ago, TapperMike said:

I remember the story as well.  The grain was rye.  

Now that I've found the link.... Here's more - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergot

 

Notice they never tell you where you can get this stuff. Not that I really want to know.

 

I read another reference that posits the idea that the Salem witch burnings could have been brought on by paranoia because they harvested bad rye infected with ergot.  Seems a strong possibility. Once that harvest was over similar events never happened again.

 

Nice vid Tom!

 

51 minutes ago, MonoStone said:

52 minutes ago, MonoStone said:

 

Tim...

 

I doubt the Beatles engineered the journey... I don't know but I suspect it was more innocent... They were just buzzing from the new experience theyd found and inspired to write about it. Although I'm fairly sure they were not so innocent as to not realise the demand for such music... I'd guess they knew what people at that time wanted... What was hip... But I think engineered might be too much.

 

There are a lot of stories about LSD. Take it from me... It's mostly just animated wallpaper and paranoia  voices don't come from nowhere... But the guy talking on the tv might seem like he's addressing you personally  

 

 

Yeah the more I thought about that the more convinced I'm it  wasn't a planned event, other than the hipness.

 

I was curious and have been reading up on these experiences and they seem to run the gamut.

 

On people hearing voices, I can think of only a short list of possibilities there. Feel free to agree, disagree, tell me you think I'm a nut job

 

-They are fantasizing as a result of the drugs

-They might be truly schizophrenic

- Maybe uncle Harry snuck up next to them and they didn't know it

-It was the tele

- They've been playing with a ouija board or sorcery incantations and have the demons after them. ( I realize that this last point will be the most convincing ) 

 

It could be a combination of all of those but the chances of it are .oooooooooooooooooooooo1

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MonoStone]

Hi Tim

 

I feel a bit silly discussing this too much as it was a long time ago and really not a very grown up activity lol... But since you ask...

 

I can't say what anyone else heard or didn't... But in my experience hallucinogenic drugs work by enhancing or altering real things. ... Did you ever hear the wind whistle through the door frame or a tom cat howl in the yard? Or next doors tv or conversation through thin walls? Well those things will be exagerated and can morph into something they're not.... Easy to imagine how yeah?  Or ... You know how you'll sometimes see a twig that for a split second looks like a snake? Well that can become a snake... Sort of... 

 

The thing is much more normally mundane things can become very strange things too.

 

Kaleidoscope eyes... That's for real... Peoples eyes typically morph and change colour.... All of the imagery in that song sounds genuinely from a trip.

 

Of course if you sit in a quiet room with your own thoughts and imagination alone then the sounds and images in your head could get out of hand.

 

Who knows... 

 

I should add as a grown up - taking magic mushrooms has an additional danger... Eat the wrong ones (hard to tell) and you'll be either dead or on dialysis for life. And who knows what's in that acid tab.... Often not LSD!

 

Beatles engineering trips... Hmmmm... Thinking more... Maybe they deliberately did on Tomorrow Never Knows... 

 

Don't do it Tim!!! Just say NO!

Edited May 23, 2016 by MonoStone

[john]

Out of interest, on the whole Ergot - LSD connection, close but not quite right. Ergot is a natural substance which is created, amongst others, from the alkaloid excretions of a fungus which grows on damp rye.

 

LSD was invented in the 1930s by a Swedish scientist researching a blood and respitory stimulant. They didn't know about it's hallucinagenic qualities until the scientist in question accidentally ingested some in the late 1940s. The scientist was investigating using a mediteranean plant, Squill, and ergot as a source for a cell he thought could be beneficial for breathing and the heart.

 

Ergo ergot poisoning (see what I did there?), ie what happened in that village, was not directly responsible for the recreational drug LSD because what happened was not responsible for the idea of LSD the breathing and heart medication. Hallucination was completely an accidental biproduct.

 

The story you relate about a medieval village actually relates to one specific (but also more generally too the story behind the allegations of witchcraft in Europe and later the Americas) notorious village. The specific case was that of Salem, where there is actually a lot of evidence that ergot was at fault.

 

Ergot is not a recreational drug. It is a poison that can kill you deader than a Salem witch wearing a "I am a witch who dances with the devil" sign around her neck as she dances naked in the town square on a bright moonlit night surrounded by a crowd of puritans with flaming torches standing next to a pile of wood, a stake and some rope. Yes you may hallucinate, but you also convulse and have a very unpleasant time.

 

[Just1L]

4 minutes ago, tunesmithth said:

Songstuff's liable to end up on every drug-related watch-list imaginable. 

 

I'd imagine it already is. I think when they made the drug-related watch-list, every music forum was grandfathered in.

[john]

lol

 

Subject for the next lyrics writing challenge?

[starise]

4 hours ago, MonoStone said:

 

Hi Tim

 

I feel a bit silly discussing this too much as it was a long time ago and really not a very grown up activity lol... But since you ask...

 

I can't say what anyone else heard or didn't... But in my experience hallucinogenic drugs work by enhancing or altering real things. ... Did you ever hear the wind whistle through the door frame or a tom cat howl in the yard? Or next doors tv or conversation through thin walls? Well those things will be exagerated and can morph into something they're not.... Easy to imagine how yeah?  Or ... You know how you'll sometimes see a twig that for a split second looks like a snake? Well that can become a snake... Sort of..

 

 

No need to feel silly at all. I think if we're honest a lot of folks have had these kinds of experiences. One of my friends from way back describes almost the exact same experience. He mentioned exotic colors and such. I've heard a few experiences that were way weird...like seeing beings crawling on the ceiling. It seems that of you have a phobia and imagine seeing it while high on LSD, you probably will see it and believe it looks real. If you didn't have any hang ups before the trip then you'll probably have a better time of it. I'm only going by what I've read and heard since I have never tried it. It has the potential to be really bad.

 

Here's a list I found that has a few comments on the effects of the drug. To summarize my take on it. I don't think the grass is greener on drugs.

 

https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104075

 

4 hours ago, MonoStone said:

I should add as a grown up - taking magic mushrooms has an additional danger... Eat the wrong ones (hard to tell) and you'll be either dead or on dialysis for life. And who knows what's in that acid tab.... Often not LSD!

 

Beatles engineering trips... Hmmmm... Thinking more... Maybe they deliberately did on Tomorrow Never Knows... 

 

Don't do it Tim!!! Just say NO!

 

Yes. There are plenty of people who might see this and become curious. Just DON"T. The consequences could be devastating. There's so many bad things out there now. Bath salts, synthesized or fake marijuana. Crank or meth, Oxycontin..and the list goes on. I'll admit I'm sometimes curious as to what all the fuss is about, but I don't have any plans to try it. It really is amazing I went through my youth with some fairly wild dudes and was unscathed by any of that. I never once had it offered to me. I found a huge hidden stash of pot in the woods all wrapped up to sell in little baggies, but I can't say where or how. 

 

3 hours ago, john said:

Out of interest, on the whole Ergot - LSD connection, close but not quite right. Ergot is a natural substance which is created, amongst others, from the alkaloid excretions of a fungus which grows on damp rye.

 

Thanks for the clarification John. It had been awhile since I had heard the story and I was sketchy on those details.

 

 

 

 

[john]

8 minutes ago, starise said:

I found a huge hidden stash of pot in the woods all wrapped up to sell in little baggies, but I can't say where or how. 

 

With your memory so effected it sounds suspiciously like you smoked it! 

 

 

[starise]

Ha ha....no I really didn't and I'm not sure why I wasn't even curious about it at the time. It was a big bag of unwrapped uncut pot and a big bag of little baggies ready to sell. I was poking around in a place with little human traffic and there it was. At first I didn't know what it was. If I would have been a pot head it would have been the mother load.