Just outa curiosity?

[Dazzyt66]

1 hour ago, Just1L said:

 

Hmmm. That could be. I've never looked into whether iPad versions are more stripped down than the actual desktop version. 

Defo it is cut down, but really easy to use 👍

[Pahchisme Plaid]

Hah!  I just remembered that my son will be using a school laptop this year.  Guess what?  It's a mac!  However, school property, so not sure about additional downloads, but could get him started on GarageBand!  I recall when subbing being pretty impressed with a composition done by a kiddo on his laptop during inside recess.  Maybe he (my son) can teach me after he learns it!!  Kids have no fear of messing up the computer like us old folks, so that seems to give them an advantage.

[Dazzyt66]

8 hours ago, Pahchisme Plaid said:

Hah!  I just remembered that my son will be using a school laptop this year.  Guess what?  It's a mac!  However, school property, so not sure about additional downloads, but could get him started on GarageBand!  I recall when subbing being pretty impressed with a composition done by a kiddo on his laptop during inside recess.  Maybe he (my son) can teach me after he learns it!!  Kids have no fear of messing up the computer like us old folks, so that seems to give them an advantage.

Sounds like a plan! You'll enjoy GarageBand!

[Pahchisme Plaid]

10 hours ago, Dazzyt66 said:

Sounds like a plan! You'll enjoy GarageBand!

Actually, he'll enjoy GarageBand and MAYBE he'll let me try it out.  He likely will cause he loves me and he's a sweetheart. 😊

[Pahchisme Plaid]

4 hours ago, HoboSage said:

I'm sold on Propellerhead's Reason 9.5. So, if your Windows 7 is 64-bit, I recommend Reason Essentials 9.5 which you can upgrade later to full-blown Reason 9.5.   It's only $69.00.  https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/reason-essentials-9/

 

Well, they certainly know how to select the cinching word to pull a newbie in to keep reading!  That word "Effortlessly" kept me interested from the get-go!

[Richard Tracey]

GarageBand is a good DAW for beginner to intermediate, but after that it will start to show limitations. The older version was better and had a lot more options, but they stripped it down with the new version, but have been adding new functions since it's release.

 

Logic is great and is used by most pros, but there can be too much choice out of the box and has a reasonable learning curve. The only issue with Logic is the age, speed and processing power of your Mac. If it's too slow, Logic can be a pain to use. It's hangs up and gets an error message constantly. There are ways to get round this though, but in this day and age, they really should be able to fix this issue. It is a known problem and nearly all users will be affected at some point.

 

I have Reason Essentials 9.5 and have used older versions in the past. They have now allowed the use of VST's which make it a lot better to use, but it has a steeper learning curve, as you have to familiarise yourself with the back-end of the modules. It works like using a real studio where you need to wire between the hardware modules to get everything to talk to each other. Now this can be done simple and Reason for the most part will do it for you, but to get the best use out of it, you need to understand this side of it.

[starise]

Just1L  You use a Mac for your work right?  If you already have a decent mac Logic is one of the very best. A few possible considerations here, if you ever intend to work with others using the same program look at a cross platform option. Yes it can be done with different daws, but much easier tohave the same program. That way a project can be copied and put into either a mac or a PC and it will open in either one or should, complete with all mix and plugin settings. A HUGE advantage over swapping wav files.

 

Secondly, while there are many great programs out there at a lower price point, I would question compatibility and  capability to upgrade. IOW, if you buy a low end program but it has no upgrade path, it's all you'll ever have. OTOH, if you buy the low end of an upgrade able program, they offer sales to get to the higher program. Are files proprietary or does the program export and import various files? Not sure about mixcraft. Does it accept 3rd party plug ins? Can it import, export many files types? Some daw companies beginner software can be loaded into the more advanced versions too with all mixer setting etc.

 

I kind of went PC the same way you ended up in Mac land. I can build my own, so it's a no brainer for me. It would take some kind of miracle for me to ever go to a Mac. Having said that I use an iPhone and iPad all the time.

 

I guess I'm saying that whatever one gets, think future expansion and compatibility.

 

I believe PAHCHISME is referring to vocal tuning. Not to be confused with the tuning that happens with loops when you drop them into a tempo and/or tuning difference.

 

[Mahesh]

1 hour ago, starise said:

I believe PAHCHISME is referring to vocal tuning. Not to be confused with the tuning that happens with loops when you drop them into a tempo and/or tuning difference

Tim, I'm assuming you're talking the same as pitch correction. If so, that is possible on Reaper as well via ReaTune. I loved the Rea Stock Plugins that comes with Reaper. Now that I've moved to Mac, Logic Pro X pretty much seals the deal.

[starise]

Thanks for the heads up on that Mahesh.

 

Yeah. If one has a Mac. Logic pretty much steals the deal. If that included plugin is anything like Melodyne, that's a real value.

 

Cakewalk once included an older vocal plugin called V-vocal. It was a Roland product. It wasn't up to the same level as the presently included Melodyne...don't know of you've ever heard bad pitch correction. I did a few songs using it for harmony. I'm not very proud of the results.

 

I'm guessing Garageband files load right into Logic? This would seem to make sense. I would be surprised if they didn't.

 

One other really cool thing Melodyne can do- It can turn audio into midi. For instance , if you have a bass track and you don't like the sound, drag it onto a midi track and wala...you have a midi track. Now you can send that midi to the bass of your choice. It works with other audio too.

[Just1L]

3 hours ago, starise said:

Just1L  You use a Mac for your work right?  If you already have a decent mac Logic is one of the very best. A few possible considerations here, if you ever intend to work with others using the same program look at a cross platform option. Yes it can be done with different daws, but much easier tohave the same program. That way a project can be copied and put into either a mac or a PC and it will open in either one or should, complete with all mix and plugin settings. A HUGE advantage over swapping wav files.

 

Secondly, while there are many great programs out there at a lower price point, I would question compatibility and  capability to upgrade. IOW, if you buy a low end program but it has no upgrade path, it's all you'll ever have. OTOH, if you buy the low end of an upgrade able program, they offer sales to get to the higher program. Are files proprietary or does the program export and import various files? Not sure about mixcraft. Does it accept 3rd party plug ins? Can it import, export many files types? Some daw companies beginner software can be loaded into the more advanced versions too with all mixer setting etc.

 

I kind of went PC the same way you ended up in Mac land. I can build my own, so it's a no brainer for me. It would take some kind of miracle for me to ever go to a Mac. Having said that I use an iPhone and iPad all the time.

 

I guess I'm saying that whatever one gets, think future expansion and compatibility.

 

I believe PAHCHISME is referring to vocal tuning. Not to be confused with the tuning that happens with loops when you drop them into a tempo and/or tuning difference.

 

 

Yes, you can do vocal tuning/pitch correction for vocals and instruments. And I'm fairly certain I can take my Garageband files and easily dump them into Logic. I think the main difference for what I need to do is price. $39 vs. $199. I guarantee if I were to spend the money, aside from having to find where everything is again, I'd be at the same place I am with Garageband now. Honestly I think most people don't really know much about Garageband and how deep it goes. It has grown a lot. As soon as I need something somebody suggests, and I can't find it on Garageband, then I'll contemplate switching. But there really seems to be no reason whatsoever to switch. The only other thing I can say is I'm talking about the actual Desktop version, not iPad or iPhone. There's no telling how dumbed down those things were made. Same thing with the iPhone and Smartphones in general. Dumbed down versions of computers so anyone can use them.

 

As far as upgrades go, I couldn't stop Apple from upgrading if I wanted to. There always upgrading and adding stuff. 

[starise]

I think this is just a basic difference in the way we think. Neither way is really bad. In fact, your way of looking at it probably makes more sense in the beginning. See, I would be the guy who would want to see what all the extra stuff in Logic is all about and then try to see how I could use it for my benefit. 

 

When I began learning to play violin a few seasoned players basically told me " You don't know what you don't know". BUT! I would say. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW, they would reply. BUT Why can't I do this or that???? You don't know what you don't know. OK.

 

That approach might not necessarily apply here or to you. You must be a fairly technically minded guy or you wouldn't be making a living with a computer. Maybe you like to work with less tools? Just two different ways of looking at it. Garageband is probably plenty good enough for basic tracking and effects. Who am I to tell you what you think you need?

 

I bought into Cakewalk Sonar lifetime updates offered a few years ago. It happened back at about the same time Roland sold Cake to Gibson. Some have guessed it was because Roland was trying to make the company look better by adding emergency funds. While I took advantage of it, I thought Cake must have lost their minds. They got a one time lifetime fee from loyal members who will never pay again. As one of those people I will get new software for life or as long as Cake is in business. It was like 199.00 , but I think I got a discount on it for 149.00

That's highway robbery for a program like that! FOR LIFE!I can't think of any other daw company who ever has or ever will offer anything similar. I remember telling the SS crowd about it, but I don't think it got much fanfare.

 

So you see, no matter what other programs I buy Sonar is likely to be my main program. Not only because it's lifetime updates, but because it's one of the best programs out there to record with.No other company has quite the support in the forums that they have. You really can't beat em'.....but you need a PC.

 

 

[Just1L]

1 hour ago, starise said:

I think this is just a basic difference in the way we think. Neither way is really bad. In fact, your way of looking at it probably makes more sense in the beginning. See, I would be the guy who would want to see what all the extra stuff in Logic is all about and then try to see how I could use it for my benefit. 

 

My way makes more sense in the beginning? Oh superior one, I bend my knee. LOL Yeah, your probably right though, I would never want to explore what a program does and see if I could use it for my benefit.  

 

1 hour ago, starise said:

When I began learning to play violin a few seasoned players basically told me " You don't know what you don't know". BUT! I would say. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW, they would reply. BUT Why can't I do this or that???? You don't know what you don't know. OK.

 

On that note, how many songs have you created in Garageband and what was the last version you used? It's come a long, long way in the last 7 or so years. It is true that "you don't know what you don't know" but I've yet to need something someone recommended that I didn't have in Garageband. Regardless of whether I know how to use it or not, it's there. Could be the style of music too. I do rock and hardly ever use loops or midi-instruments. I just plug in and play.

 

1 hour ago, starise said:

That approach might not necessarily apply here or to you. You must be a fairly technically minded guy or you wouldn't be making a living with a computer. Maybe you like to work with less tools? Just two different ways of looking at it. Garageband is probably plenty good enough for basic tracking and effects. Who am I to tell you what you think you need?

 

THAT'S what I want to know. The "less tools" thing. I've yet to hear of a tool that is lacking in Garageband. Admittedly I'm not a good mixer, better than I was, but years away from what I would call "good." I just went and read an article on comparing GB vs. Logic and found one by a guy that was called 5 Killer logic features that made me leave Garageband for good. It was quite an eye-opener. 4 of the 5 things he claimed weren't in Garageband are in fact in Garageband. The 5th feature may or may not be in Garageband but that feature didn't really seem necessary to me at all. 

 

I guess in the end I'm just happy with what I have until I'm not, or until there's a legit reason to switch. I only want my mixes to sound better. Could I open one of my current songs in Logic and work on the mix and have it end up sounding better? Yes. But I think that's more about learning to mix better and continuing to work on it, than the DAW itself. Unless there is some sort of tool in Logic that GB doesn't have that would instantly make my mixes sound better, I'm not sold on why it's better.

[starise]

Whatever I suggest, please do the opposite and you'll be all set.

 

This seems to be what happens anyways.I don't know why I even get involved at all. 

 

I never intended it to seem I was condescending here..ugh. 

[Pahchisme Plaid]

It's all good information, all good perspectives when trying to consider the options .  Of course some are going to have different preferences according to means, equipment on hand, time, style, and how they like to work.  It doesn't need to go in this direction. I don't think Starise was knocking what/how you do it, just sharing information.

[Just1L]

32 minutes ago, starise said:

Whatever I suggest, please do the opposite and you'll be all set.

 

This seems to be what happens anyways.I don't know why I even get involved at all. 

 

I never intended it to seem I was condescending here..ugh. 

 

Don't let the door hit you in the … LOL Just kidding. It was condescending but really, jimmy-crack-corn. I THINK I knew what you meant … and I'm fairly certain you've never used Garageband.  It's just one of those things with me when it comes to software/mac/pc etc… And I do believe if I was working more with different sounds, plug-ins and other midi-type stuff I may head out into the wider pastures. Now, I'm gonna re-read your post and head the other way. haha

[starise]

I didn't want to steer this into a discussion about Garageband only, although since it is a good beginner program and even maybe ok for beyond that it's definitely in the running.

In order to find the differences you would need to search a comparison between it and Logic as Apple products. I could easily do that and find the differences, or I could search " Garage Band Limitations" and I might do that. I did use it awhile back. I;m sure there are a few things " I don't know that I don't know" about it. 

 

I compare it to the basic programs Cakewalk makes and TBH there are a few dudes who are completely happy using those versions. There's a lot of support for them and they have made hit grade music with it, mainly because of how they like to work.

 

If we split hairs over this though, we get into what really is " beginner software"? I have my opinions on that which might be different than yours....anyways, here's  the jist of what I heard Just1L say and why I responded the way I did.: Just1L in a nutshell > I have Garageband> I like Garageband>I'm curious about what the others might offer>I'm not convinced I need anything else>I want to investigate Reaper>Is there a benefit to changing?

 

To answer that YES, I believe there is a benefit to changing IF you intend to move up as a mixer and learn more complicated processes. No studio worth it's weight will anchor their operation on Garageband or any of the other basic programs for paying clients. If it's a Mac, then they use Pro Tools or Logic usually. If it's a PC, they at least have PT as a main option.

Many PC studio owners I know will mix in something else like Sonar for pro work and then put it into Pro Tools for their boss. It's a fairly common thing actually.Pro Tools isn't the best all rounder'. I personally don't like Reaper compared to either Studio One or Sonar. I see it as a less expensive alternative to better flowing programs.Yes, it gets the job done but sometimes in a less intuitive cobbled together way. I looked into retune as an example..it does the job, but the UI compared to Melodyne is light years behind it. And it lacks many of the features Melodyne has.

 

But let's get back to beginning software. As Pahchisme said, her son might be getting Garageband. Great! Probably one of the best programs out there to start and it comes with the OS.

I need to make sure I'm not breaking any rules, but I have a few copies of older versions of Sonar that would actually run on a win 7 computer. I have the SN's and I don't have those program loaded on any of my other computers presently. That's an option if you're interested. Things have changed a lot in Sonar since those versions were made since they're maybe 5-6 years old. But they work.

[Just1L]

1 hour ago, starise said:

I didn't want to steer this into a discussion about Garageband only, although since it is a good beginner program and even maybe ok for beyond that it's definitely in the running.

 

I agree and I don't really feel a need to continue talking about GB other than, like you mentioned, I think it is a great way to get started and if at some point you feel you need to do more with your mixes you can either switch to another DAW or dig deeper into GB. If you can't find what you need, make the switch.

 

As I ponder further, cuz I just can't shut up sometimes, it reminds me of camera film. I remember back in the day you would go to the store to find film. You'd see the Kodak film along with other brands and then there was that crappy old generic brand. Who would by that? It's like $3 cheaper, it must suck. But, did you know, depending on where you go, the generic was the exact same as the high dollar stuff. Still, some people just had to have the high dollar stuff. It made them feel like they were getting the best because they paid more for it. 

[starise]

Oh no...I ran him off.  No harm intended.

 

I get it Just1L. I like the minimalist approach too. But I have GAS ( gear acquisition syndrome). We can't help ourselves. If they make it we want to try or buy it MUAAAHAHAHAHAHHHHHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

[Just1L]

16 minutes ago, starise said:

Oh no...I ran him off.  No harm intended.

 

I get it Just1L. I like the minimalist approach too. But I have GAS ( gear acquisition syndrome). We can't help ourselves. If they make it we want to try or buy it MUAAAHAHAHAHAHHHHHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

 

Who'd you run off?  LOL So, the minimalist approach and comment on a more complicated process. Can you tell me just one of the more complicated processes you're speaking of that I would benefit from? Because I've yet to hear, or read, a single one that wasn't soley "how I do it" based.  

[starise]

Garageband has a track limitation 16 tracks I think. My last few projects were at least 20 something tracks. I believe that last one was 21 tracks.There's a time limitation to those tracks as well.

 

You can't make send/return busses in Garageband. IOW create a send for each track and send that audio to say, a reverb buss, a chorus or a compressor, no side chaining. It has a master reverb, but that can be limiting if you want varying degrees of reverb from track to track. Audio and midi editing is limited compared to what you can do in other daws. In fact, compared to logic, Garageband doesn't have half the editing capability.

 

Logic has way more loops and instruments included. You can't use multiple time signatures in the same song in Garageband. Logic lets you see multiple takes all at once and makes it easier to arrange and record takes to a timeline.Since I don't use Logic I can only guess at some of what I read. Logic has tools to make it easier to repeat and delete. And as I understand it, has a lot of little tools to make it easier to arrange and work a project compared to Garageband.

 

In logic you have more control of the software instruments themselves. Logic has a vertical inspector bar. This might seem like a small thing but it's really helpful on the daws I have worked in. In Sonar and Studio One, it's drag and drop. See an effect you want? Grab it an drop it on a track. Want a synth in the project? Find it in the vertical inspector and drag it into the project. I'm guessing the one in Logic works in a similar way. I'm pretty sure audio resolution in Garageband is limited to 16/44.1 but I could be wrong since this was in an older version I used. You really get better audio quality to the master if you can record in 24/48 or 24/96 bitrates. Even though you'll probably be compressing it later on this improves the end result. I could go on, but short of cracking open a manual I've probably only scratched the surface.

 

The nice thing is, the GUI is almost the same across the two, so it would be like working in Garageband with more features. You could then learn the new features as you go, probably fairly easily.

 

Garageband uses AU plugins and you can buy those to add, but they add up. Before you know it you've probably spent the same as buying Logic.

 

Most more advanced Daws are now adding Mastering features. We all need to master our work, so having that as a part of the main program get's you there all in one program.In Garageband you might need to export to something else unless they have a preset which isn't always the best fit.

 

Lots of things we didn't get into. Multiband compression, dynamic EQ's, advanced cross metering to make sure the track sits ok on all formats with respect to limit ceilings.DC offset, track polarity, sound coloring options, like tube or console emulation. Graphic representations of audio so you can see where some problems might be located that you can't necessarily pinpoint using only your ears.