Mixing on Headphones vs Monitors

[Quintin]

Hello, I was wondering if you room is not treated properly, would you choose to mix in a pair of good monitoring headphone specifically made for mixing and mastering. Wouldnt that be more accurate and translate better on other listeing devices?

[childed]

working in headphones is quite difficult.
certain problems with panning and frequency spectrum, fast fatigue.
this is also not good for the ears, if you listen to headphones more than an hour a day.
usually headphones use just a couple of times while mixing track to avoid clicks and artifacts

[Glammerocity]

I'd use phones like another set of speakers, as a test for a mix, but I wouldn't do a mix on them.

[childed]

one trick that i use: i put headphones on a table and listen it like the speakers.  

[starise]

In a pinch one could opt to use the headphones and then try the mix on several basic consumer systems. There was a time when a home stereo was two bookshelf speakers. The less expensive ones tended to be mid rangy which wasn't bad. If you wanted a good image you sat in front of and in between them. How many people do that nowadays? 

 

More likely it's Alexa streaming something or earbuds/car listening.  The audiophiles of old are a dying breed. They still exist but if I suspect a very small minority. 

[Roymega]

Speaking of monitors fellas, what kind would you recommend for someone looking to buy their first pair? How much am I looking at spending for something reasonably priced but also good quality?

[childed]

14 hours ago, Roymega said:

Speaking of monitors fellas, what kind would you recommend for someone looking to buy their first pair? How much am I looking at spending for something reasonably priced but also good quality?

 

take a look to a used yamaha NS10

[Glammerocity]

Had NS10s in my studio, they were industry standard then, don't know if they still are, but I hated them. Nothing sounded good on them. Maybe that was the point. If it sounds ok on them it'll sound good on anything.

 

I think getting an ear test is a good thing, especially if you gig. We had a guitarist who liked to play loud - don't they all? - and of course it was all coming out at me stuck at the front. So I booked the band in for an ear test - the local place offered a free test. We all had a bit of damage around 6k - cymbals can do a lot of that - which is the frequency that makes conversation hard to hear over background noise, like when you're in a pub late and people are having to shout into your ear. The guitarist had a straight line across his graph, which was lower than the rest of us right across but the 6k didn't dip quite as much, which he took as some kind of victory. He and his stupid Peavey Bandit that "only sounds good when you turn it up" didn't last.

 

Headphones could do similar damage.

 

Anyway, knowing I'd lost a bit of my 6k helped me avoid overcompensating when mixing.

[starise]

11 hours ago, Roymega said:

Speaking of monitors fellas, what kind would you recommend for someone looking to buy their first pair? How much am I looking at spending for something reasonably priced but also good quality?

 

The Adams are really nice monitors but probably outside of many budgets if you buy their high end. Many of the more permoninenet makers such as Adam and Mackie have recently come out with a better price point line to compete with the cheap monitors out there.

 

I have a pair of JBL LSR 305's. They get high ratings and don't break the bank. IK multimedia has a cheap pair that are supposed to be good though I haven't used them. They are really inexpensive. Lots of folks rave about the Alesis line on the low end of the spectrum. Those can be found cheap used online but then you take a chance the seller is selling you something without problems.

 

The assumption behind most studio speakers designed for smaller systems is  they will be used in a smallish space. This is the reason many are smaller woofers. In a mix, it's generally the mid range areas that you're trying to get a balance on and bring out/separate from other frequencies. In other words- Most of the detail is found there in most mixes. I have a separate bass subwoofer but I seldom use it.

 

Someone else mentioned the placement. Height and the "triangle" arrangement are important. If I lower my head a few inches I can pick up more detail on my monitors meaning they are a bit too low. It's usually a given that there will be some kind of a low frequency "honk" in the bass range in smaller rooms. The smaller woofer won't entirely eliminate that. Mixing at lower volumes for detail always helps cut down on that . The bass problem is usually dealt with using either room sound treatments, electronic monitor correction, or both.

 

Smaller monitors, closer proximity and lower mixing volumes can all help hear the detail you need to hear when mixing in a bedroom studio.

[childed]

5 hours ago, Glammerocity said:

Had NS10s in my studio, they were industry standard then, don't know if they still are, but I hated them. Nothing sounded good on them. Maybe that was the point. If it sounds ok on them it'll sound good on anything.

 

 

this is the eternal dispute of a sound engineers 😃
strictly speaking it's not a studio monitors but HI END stuff.
However, most studios have NS10

 

I work on NS during the recording sessions.
my ears do not get tired for a long time.
when mixing, its also useful, but for a specific tasks.

 

but the main thing is... for mixing the room is more important than the equipment.

[Roymega]

Appreciate all the insight guys! Taking it all in.. 

[Taylor Sappe]

On 4/22/2018 at 3:08 PM, Quintin said:

Hello, I was wondering if you room is not treated properly, would you choose to mix in a pair of good monitoring headphone specifically made for mixing and mastering. Wouldnt that be more accurate and translate better on other listeing devices?

 

I usually go back and forth between headphones and speakers.  Sometimes when you get a good mix on one it doesn't sound so good on the other and requires some adjustments.  I also watch my spectrum analyzer to make sure it plays well on every system.  Reference tracks of commercial releases are also helpful.

[Taylor Sappe]

On 5/8/2018 at 6:12 AM, Glammerocity said:

Had NS10s in my studio, they were industry standard then, don't know if they still are, but I hated them. Nothing sounded good on them. Maybe that was the point. If it sounds ok on them it'll sound good on anything.

 

I think getting an ear test is a good thing, especially if you gig. We had a guitarist who liked to play loud - don't they all? - and of course it was all coming out at me stuck at the front. So I booked the band in for an ear test - the local place offered a free test. We all had a bit of damage around 6k - cymbals can do a lot of that - which is the frequency that makes conversation hard to hear over background noise, like when you're in a pub late and people are having to shout into your ear. The guitarist had a straight line across his graph, which was lower than the rest of us right across but the 6k didn't dip quite as much, which he took as some kind of victory. He and his stupid Peavey Bandit that "only sounds good when you turn it up" didn't last.

 

Headphones could do similar damage.

 

Anyway, knowing I'd lost a bit of my 6k helped me avoid overcompensating when mixing.

 

Also consider Presbycusis, which starts around age 40 and gets progressively worse as you age.  I am well beyond the age of mild presbycusus, so I use reference tracks and watch my spectrum analyzer to avoid overcompensating the upper mids.

[Roymega]

Reference tracks are a God send..

[starise]

For those who might not know, there are several plugins out there for comparing reference tracks. MCompare by Melda production is a nice plug in for this if you can get it to import your format. https://www.meldaproduction.com/MCompare

 

Using something like this  keeps you from listening at different volumes. Makes sure everything is equal. I didn't find MCompare terribly intuitive. Lots of help info though and I suspect the owner would help you personally if you dropped him a line.

[Roymega]

15 minutes ago, starise said:

For those who might not know, there are several plugins out there for comparing reference tracks. MCompare by Melda production is a nice plug in for this if you can get it to import your format. https://www.meldaproduction.com/MCompare

 

Using something like this  keeps you from listening at different volumes. Makes sure everything is equal. I didn't find MCompare terribly intuitive. Lots of help info though and I suspect the owner would help you personally if you dropped him a line.

 

Izotope Ozone 8 and Izotope Tonal Balance Control are also great plugins that utilize the reference track feature (amongst other mastering tools).

[starise]

Yes  great programs. I tend to use the separate plugins in Ozone more often than the mastering chains.  Like IKmultimedia TRacks  Ozone has some great capabilities. I especially like the mp3 test in Ozone to see how your mix will sound once you compress it.

 

TBH not much reference material matches what I do very close. I tend to mix what I like most of the time and do  limiting/ LUFS /RMS test a few cents less for acoustic recordings. Most commercial acoustic mixes are softer than my preferences. Can be tough to find something to compare to. I'm sure I'm the exception here.

[Roymega]

57 minutes ago, starise said:

Yes  great programs. I tend to use the separate plugins in Ozone more often than the mastering chains.  Like IKmultimedia TRacks  Ozone has some great capabilities. I especially like the mp3 test in Ozone to see how your mix will sound once you compress it.

 

TBH not much reference material matches what I do very close. I tend to mix what I like most of the time and do  limiting/ LUFS /RMS test a few cents less for acoustic recordings. Most commercial acoustic mixes are softer than my preferences. Can be tough to find something to compare to. I'm sure I'm the exception here.

 

I'll have to check your stuff out sometime, following you on Soundcloud!

[Kyla]

Honestly, it is not worth the extra money to get the "studio rated" monitors or headphones.. Just get what fits your budget. 

When it comes to monitors vs headphones.. That's a decade old battle.. Again get what fits your budget and needs and later also buy the other one when you collect enough money. That's the best you can do really

[starise]

Here's a cool app that might help some who are forced to use Headphones to mix-